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Arizona pastor jailed for home bible study

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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by mwood
reply to post by nedined
 


Who is the kook? Why do you have the right to tell other people what to believe? If they come there of their own free will because they want to be there then I don't think he is brainwashing them.

You people that get all bent outta shape trying to tell others what they should believe in and what they should think makes me crazy.

Only YOUR beliefs are right and anyone who thinks or feels otherwise are wrong.

I am not religious but I will NOT tell others what to believe. Why are you so threatened by them?


Ok, no one is kook! I said crook! This person is a crook as all other that participate in the creation of organized religions are. The other half is just sheeples who will believe anything the crooks tell them. I'm not telling anyone what to believe, I'm just trying to protect others from these swindlers that have no any right to be GODs messengers. GOD never gave them this right. If GOD did they should prove it! They all are self- proclaimed some kind of religious gurus that only for that blasphemy need to be thrown in jail. The organized religion is totally destroying the spirituality of mankind and need to be prohibited. People should seek spirituality by themselves and decide only by themselves how to express it. All missionary work should be forbidden too…



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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So sick of this story keeps coming up, its pretty simple, if you had 15-50 cars blocking your driveway every weekend or every other weekend you know damn well you would complain to cops and the town everyday till your neighbor got tossed, has no bearing whether religious or a dungeons and dragons game convention every weekend, he doesn't have the freaking codes up to date(this same damn thing came up over 3 months ago, WHY HASN'T HE COMPLIED AND JUST MADE UP TO CODE!!!!) to house that many people if they really wanted to have bible study groups why not rent a place that has handicapped parking, fire escapes/sprinklers k of c rents place out to anybody for cheap, and IM sure there are numerous places that could be used as well PUBLIC LIBRARY, LOCAL SCHOOL ECT ECT A FREAKING PARK!, hes just being a dink in the name of religion.
hell i could care less if my neighbors held Satan bible studies next to my place if it was like once every couple months, if i got church of Satan blocking my driveway every weekend, ill tow tow tow your cars away every weekend and screw your religious freedoms, i pay a damn mortgage!!!!!! when someone else is blocking my access to road and street then now you are impeding on my freedoms which come before ANY RELIGION!
and also if its so damn important why not have it at someone else's house every other month/weekend, then the neighborhood wouldn't get p'd off that the street is full all day/night
BE REALISTIC PEOPLE
towns and cities make codes for a reason, just ask the owners of the night club in Rhode island providence that caught fire, people were BURNED ALIVE!!!!!!!! DO YOU GET IT, with that said IM also not Naive to think towns and cities don't use these to their advantages when they don't want certain business and what not , but generally they are for good reasons (btw the night club owners are serving time, and PEOPLE WERE BURNED ALIVE!!!!! why? cause they didn't follow CODES and let to many people in and nothing was labeled properly as exits, this is nothing more than some jerk off trying to get his way under religious freedom BS to give his neighbors the flying finger,,, i say hah good i hope he holds them again and gets arrested again and again



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by beezzer
 





If he'd have NOT filed for tax exempt status, I'd have still supported him. But now?


What the hell makes a church liable for any tax to begin with? Do you know of any statute of the tax code imposing a tax upon a church? What the hell what that tax be? A federal direct tax upon the property of a church? Is it some specified taxed activity taxing the free exercise of religion? What the hell makes a church liable for a tax to begin with?




It was not a church.
It was a building on his home property in a residential neighborhood.
Jesus, did any of you read this story?


Did you read it? The guy said it was a church when he filed for a tax free status.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
Just more evidence of the incredibly sad state of affairs in America. May this pastor receive many blessings for following his heart and religious convictions. We were told some would be jailed, killed, ridiculed, and hated for following Jesus / Yeshua. I dare say that that city would have jailed Yeshua for preaching in their town and healing without a permit.


Hey, I am a pastor. I have 80 or so people over to my house twice a week. I claim tax exempt status and I do indeed pass the collection plate.

Now tell why you are so sure I am a good person that deserves your support in trampling the rights of my neighbors?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by otherpotato
 


I'm taking you to task for turning around and making this a "tax" issue, of which it is not. The "tax" issue was something Beezer brought into the fray. This issue is over zoning ordinances. The question is, can any town, city, state, or the federal government tell a church where they can lay their roots down?




Yes they can.
The reason I pay the property taxes that I do to live in the neighborhood that I do is because we all have families around here. There are lots of children playing and people walking their pets. Now if you plan on suddenly increasing the traffic in these residential streets SUBSTANTIALLY then you are going to lower the property values and quality of life for us.Why should we put up with that? We pay taxes. Unlike the pastor, WE PAY TAXES. So when we complain to the police about the noise and cars, they listen until they get fed up. Then they take further action to prevent more constant repeat calls.

GET IT???????

WE HAVE RIGHTS TOO!



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by HandyDandy
 





NYC sure did a fine job of it when they told a Muslim church where they can lay their roots.


Okay, so your answer is, yes, government certainly has the right to tell churches where they can lay their roots down. Is the "free exercise of religion" then merely lip service, but to hell with it in practice?





What religion requires a church in order for you to practice it?
I cannot think of any.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Of course I did! It's not I who has a reading problem, otherwise you would have asked this question to Beezer instead of I, but that ain't your agenda, is it?




Why would you rather I defer to someone other than you?
What is my agenda?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by nunyadammm
 


Oh for crying out loud! It was beyond foolish to take me to task over calling his home a church, and since you quoted my reply to Beezer, it didn't take a genius to understand I was questioning his reversal on the issue simply over "tax exempt" status. Thus far, that makes you the only one in this thread who needed that explained.

In terms of your game of semantics over the word church, I think this pretty much reveals your agenda and it doesn't have anything to do with actually debating the topic at hand. At this point, I am reminded of an old saying:

"When a wise man argues with a fool, it is difficult to tell who is who."

With that, I'll leave you to your agenda.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Did you read it? The guy said it was a church when he filed for a tax free status.


Yup.
But it is not a church is it?
It is just a rec room where they have bible study.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

Church and State...the two mix like oil and water...But 60 days in jail, thats a little extreme even for Arizona...but hey that pastor can really have some riteous bible study while hes doing his 60 days hmmm....they say God works in mysterious ways maybe theres some souls in need of scripture lessons in that Arizona hoosgow...



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Oh for crying out loud! It was beyond foolish to take me to task over calling his home a church, and since you quoted my reply to Beezer, it didn't take a genius to understand I was questioning his reversal on the issue simply over "tax exempt" status. Thus far, that makes you the only one in this thread who needed that explained.


Take you to task? Is that what I did?

Anyway. I know what he wrote. I know what you wrote. I wrote what I wrote. Apparently it is bothering you a lot. I stand by it.


In terms of your game of semantics over the word church, I think this pretty much reveals your agenda and it doesn't have anything to do with actually debating the topic at hand.


What is this agenda?
We are discussing the REAL difference between tax exempt status or not. So whether his home was actually a church matters. We can all call our homes a church but do we all get to be tax exempt just by saying it?


At this point, I am reminded of an old saying:

"When a wise man argues with a fool, it is difficult to tell who is who."

With that, I'll leave you to your agenda.





WTF is my agenda?????????????????



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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I ti is certainly time for the "good guys" to start sticking together. ATS is a great forum for thought and words to come together.....as we all know what follows.....and that will be "good" action! I will pray for this brother.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Lot's of people hating religion around here.

They have their beliefs, you have your own.

To each their own, eh?



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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This is a classic case of the OP not being written with the pertinent facts in a clear manner.

This whole thread is a clusterf-word of repeating posts with the same information.
The OP should have put more in there about the actual facts, and reasons behind this.
The issue became confused because of the way the OP was written.

Simply put, 80 people gathering 2-3 times a week was disturbing his neighbors.
neighbors complained many times, about many different issues this caused.
City had to act, because of neighborhood complaints.

It didn't matter if it was a religious meeting, AA meeting, birdwatchers meeting.






Breaking it down mathematically.



80 people with an average of 3 people per car is
80/3=26.3

So that is 26.3 cars making 2-3 trips a week back and forth down your neighborhood street.



26.3x3=78.9
78.9x2=159.8 (return trip)


So you get the equivalent of 160 extra cars a week going down your neighborhood street.
Now tell me that that is not a problem.


edit on 7-8-2012 by KingAtlas because: broke it up for clarity



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 05:00 AM
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I believe in god but not organized religion but I do believe people have their right to believe in whatever they want to believe, even if it's evil. However, i don't think that spreading hate within religion should be legal regardless. They should be allowed to preach however way they want, and we should be allowed to preach about alternatives to our current government without being sentenced to death.

I will defend their right to believe in what they want to believe in because in America, it's a rite.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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This is just like our friends the Saudis who continue hating those very Christians, who gave asylum and protections to their Prophet in his days of trouble during the first years of Islam

Riyadh deports 35 Ethiopian Christians for praying

www.jpost.com...



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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This has nothing to do with Christians. The law applies to all faiths.

Drop the whiny persecution complex.

One minute you try to insert Christian doctrine into law by claiming a Christian majority, the next all Christians are persecuted.

Go to church, pray to your god and quit complaining every time someone doesn't agree with you.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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JESUS RULES



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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At first I was outraged, gut reaction. Reading more of the story I realized that the dude is making money. If you're making money, you have to jump through the cities hoops.

If your filing your taxes as a church, and you're making money... as a church, then you have to follow city codes for churches.

Hell I would love if I didn't have to pay $200 for the various licenses I need to run a simple balloon inflating business... but I do. Just like this dues collecting church has to follow building code.




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