Arizona pastor jailed for home bible study

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


From what is being described it sounds like this was not a small group of family and friends just sitting around chewing the fat about bible content. And no they are not taking that right away from you.
If you knew this was about building codes why the inflamatory thread about not being allowed relegious freedoms? I call foul.

reply to post by beezzer

I supported him because I thought this was an issue of worship.

Do you mean an 'opinion' from Fox led you to believe something that was not entirely true? Hmm, guess "opinions" from pundits do carry some influence. I am not being nasty here, for I too have been swayed by the SOC, sensationalist opinion merchants I have discovered a phrase that helps to identify opinion from fact with Fox news, it is the prefixed statement "some people say..."
But that is why I cringe when I hear people defending media outlets for spouting opinions instead of facts, the damage is still done.

ETA: I hope you get to feeling better

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Me not being prepared to agree or disagree with your particular thoughts on the matter does not mean that I did not read the thread. It simply means I choose not to get into a discussion on your perspective at this time. Another day, my friend. You don't know the weekend I had.

other. potato.

reply to post by otherpotato


I'm taking you to task for turning around and making this a "tax" issue, of which it is not. The "tax" issue was something Beezer brought into the fray. This issue is over zoning ordinances. The question is, can any town, city, state, or the federal government tell a church where they can lay their roots down?

My only reply is that greater good will come of this as you cannot suppress goodness without it growing. Or anything for that matter.
Think on this.
What happens when you suppress the sex drive?
What happens when you try to suppress violence?
You can only close yourself to it , that is all , and the choice is yours alone.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
There should be a protest about this kind of violation of civil liberties.

Make sure it's in a zoned area for protesting!

Just more evidence of the incredibly sad state of affairs in America. May this pastor receive many blessings for following his heart and religious convictions. We were told some would be jailed, killed, ridiculed, and hated for following Jesus / Yeshua. I dare say that that city would have jailed Yeshua for preaching in their town and healing without a permit.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by LIGHTvsDARK

 

Originally posted by LIGHTvsDARK
Does your house meet city codes? Give us your address so we can come over and inspect your domicile.

I have already had my house inspected (before we bought it) and it meets city code. Saltzman built a "church:" building in his yard. This case is not about his house.

Exactly.....

Someone needs to change the false headline to "Arizona pastor jailed for bible study in DIY shack".

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
The question is, can any town, city, state, or the federal government tell a church where they can lay their roots down?

NYC sure did a fine job of it when they told a Muslim church where they can lay their roots.

reply to post by HandyDandy

NYC sure did a fine job of it when they told a Muslim church where they can lay their roots.

Okay, so your answer is, yes, government certainly has the right to tell churches where they can lay their roots down. Is the "free exercise of religion" then merely lip service, but to hell with it in practice?

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

NYC sure did a fine job of it when they told a Muslim church where they can lay their roots.

Okay, so your answer is, yes, government certainly has the right to tell churches where they can lay their roots down. Is the "free exercise of religion" then merely lip service, but to hell with it in practice?

Where did I say that I agree? Read into it much?

Anyway, all I'm saying is that yes, we have let our government make that decision whether it was right or wrong to do.

I have the right to protest......so says the first amendment. Yet now I have to get a permit in most cities, have to stay far enough away from the people I'm protesting, and now we have no protesting military funerals 2 hours before or after.

Don't forget the ole' yelling fire in a crowded theater analogy also.

Still think the constitution holds any water anymore? I don't. We've lost our rights my friend. Just because now they are a Christian's rights everyone is up in arms? Please.

I can garantee that at least half the people posting boo hoo's about this man's rights were the ones cheering the murder of Anwar al-Awlaki (an american born who also had rights).

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Well now that I'm in a Monty Python sketch...I didn't turn it into a tax "issue" or say he was in trouble on his taxes. I made a snarky comment to suggest all he cares about is saving money on his taxes, so there is no "religion" for you to defend here. After all he changes his mind about whether or not he is a church depending on who is asking.... As far as I'm concerned if you're going to create a nuisance in your neighborhood don't be an idiot about it by handing over the tools to prosecute yourself. Whether or not you want to debate the rules we have (and I'm not saying you're wrong), they are in place. And whether or not you want to believe a church should be allowed to just spring up wherever it wants to, in practice it is not that simple. He has the right to practice his religion (and practice does make perfect so they say), he doesn't have the right to take over the neighborhood with it. At a certain point common sense has to come into play.

Seems like all you have to do these days is call yourself a "religion", wave around some holy book, and suddenly everything you do is untouchable. Maybe I should start a religion. It appears to be the new pink.

reply to post by NAMTERCES


I agree with you 100%. That is the first thing that I thought too, were not getting the whole story here. Nothing more annoying than the same traffic every week coming and going through the neighborhood that don't even live there and probably taking up neighbors parking and not just parking in their driveway like she clames on fox news.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by beezzer

 

If he'd have NOT filed for tax exempt status, I'd have still supported him. But now?

What the hell makes a church liable for any tax to begin with? Do you know of any statute of the tax code imposing a tax upon a church? What the hell what that tax be? A federal direct tax upon the property of a church? Is it some specified taxed activity taxing the free exercise of religion? What the hell makes a church liable for a tax to begin with?

It was not a church.
It was a building on his home property in a residential neighborhood.
Jesus, did any of you read this story?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I picked Manson because it was recognizable. And he was able to sway people to murder for him so easily.

But basically you could apply the concept to any cult.

reply to post by nunyadammm

It was not a church. It was a building on his home property in a residential neighborhood. Jesus, did any of you read this story?

Of course I did! It's not I who has a reading problem, otherwise you would have asked this question to Beezer instead of I, but that ain't your agenda, is it?

reply to post by otherpotato


Virtually every church in the United States have 501c3's, so your snarky remark is applicable to all churches, which is perhaps what you intended, but even with this last post that is not clear. Monty Python is much clearer in their intent.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Well, I'm not always direct and you are not the first one to point that out. What can I say. It's probably my "conditioning." Yes, I know it applies to all churches.

other. potato.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

What is a church anyway?

If you are proposing what I think you are I would vote for you in a second. I imagine if churches are naturally tax exempt and a home could be considered a church I would be smiling. I would declare every piece of property I own as a church and probably buy many more. Do like the mega churches do here and run daycares, tax services, catering services, etc. and call the fees "donations to the church". Of course if the donation isn't enough well those services cease to be available to the caller.

reply to post by toochaos4u


I have now declared my home a church and am now exempt from all laws because....you know...".freedumb of religion."

I can do all the drugs I want because it's my religion.....I see lots of angels when I smoke meth on a daily basis and have been up for days........right?........Huh?

I can even have human sacrifices if I want because you know....freedom of religion dude.....

[/sarcasm]

I wonder if Jean Paul understands yet?