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Arizona pastor jailed for home bible study

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posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Nightwalk
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


If this isn't proof that the world is run by a pathocracy then I don't know what is.


Yeah i'd say so. It fits the definition of a pathocracy alright.




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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My one strike against him would be the filing of tax exemption. He shot himself in the foot by doing that. Plus i don't really agree with churches jumping on the tax exemption bandwagon except those taxes are not cheap to run a church. My church bought an old rundown bowling alley and skating rink and renovated it into a church and we were being charged 3000 bucks a month in taxes just to keep the doors open, not including electric, water and sanitation and we ended up having to file for tax exemption or we couldn't afford to keep our doors open. So if anyone is to blame it's the government for charging such high taxes on churches.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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If this happened to a group of muslims then the public would be outraged.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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He should obey the laws and then he wouldnt have this problem.
Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





My church bought an old rundown bowling alley and skating rink and renovated it into a church and we were being charged 3000 bucks a month in taxes just to keep the doors open, not including electric, water and sanitation and we ended up having to file for tax exemption or we couldn't afford to keep our doors open. So if anyone is to blame it's the government for charging such high taxes on churches.



I don't understand this.^^

$3,000 a month in taxes, that's $36,000 a year. What kind of taxes. property taxes, income tax, sales tax? Why didn't your "church" declare itself a "church" and file for tax exempt status from the get go, when the building was purchased? Were you folks thinking that you wanted to be independent of government oversight, so you avoided exercising your tax exempt rights?

The government isn't to blame for your church's leadership choosing to avoid filing for 501 c, non profit tax exemption, a government implemented shelter for churches. Since your church did eventually get the tax exemption, it is not the government's fault your church didn't apply sooner.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Absolute crap. Try again.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by DriCo04
If this happened to a group of muslims then the public would be outraged.


They would be outraged. They would be outraged over how long it took the city to arrest the person responsible for the zoning violations. Outraged that neighborhood children may have been exposed to Islamic beliefs while the city did nothing.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





My church bought an old rundown bowling alley and skating rink and renovated it into a church and we were being charged 3000 bucks a month in taxes just to keep the doors open, not including electric, water and sanitation and we ended up having to file for tax exemption or we couldn't afford to keep our doors open. So if anyone is to blame it's the government for charging such high taxes on churches.



I don't understand this.^^

$3,000 a month in taxes, that's $36,000 a year. What kind of taxes. property taxes, income tax, sales tax? Why didn't your "church" declare itself a "church" and file for tax exempt status from the get go, when the building was purchased? Were you folks thinking that you wanted to be independent of government oversight, so you avoided exercising your tax exempt rights?

The government isn't to blame for your church's leadership choosing to avoid filing for 501 c, non profit tax exemption, a government implemented shelter for churches. Since your church did eventually get the tax exemption, it is not the government's fault your church didn't apply sooner.


Right, so it's my church's fault the government wanted to charge 3000 bucks a month in taxes without the 501c
. We were already a nonprofit organization. Churches shouldn't be forced to have to get a 501c tax exemption to remain open in the first place.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Why not? If there were no regulations and oversights, anyone could say they were a church.

A "church" is a distinction of legitimacy. I would think your congregation would be proud to claim and tout your place in the community. It gives you and your members a welcome place, and the ability to participate on many social levels that a a group of yahoos that meet in a garage don't have.

Gee, now you guys can have car washes, bake sales and participate in county fairs, etc., all giving you access to community outreach. A good thing!



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by DriCo04
If this happened to a group of muslims then the public would be outraged.


They would be outraged. They would be outraged over how long it took the city to arrest the person responsible for the zoning violations. Outraged that neighborhood children may have been exposed to Islamic beliefs while the city did nothing.


I disagree. The way this country is now, everyone promotes hate against Christians and is constantly poking fun. Meanwhile, anyone practicing Islam should be left alone and respected because we have 'freedom of religion' but God forbid somebody is a CHRISTIAN!



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by desert
 


I have a relative who handles property taxes and it is amazing how many born agains are trying to illegally wriggle out of paying taxes.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


A bit slanted, wouldn’t you say? It’s about doing something you are not zoned for. Why not just go about doing legally? Christians are not battered, they are the batterers.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Except it is not always your property. How many buildings exist for generations?

it is to secure a building for not only the people visiting or living in the home, but for people who will own that home after you.

And sometimes people don't realize that it is for consumer protection too. To make sure that a builder, contractor, or specialty, doesn't do a shoddy job.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You know I really can't stand people of faith. No matter what there faith is.They tend to be closed mind and point fingers. However this is goverment gone to far. I really hope he sues the city into the dark ages. The zoning law is stupid. So if I have a party the goverment can dictate what we can and can not talk about. At least that is pretty much what just happen here in my eyes.They should march into the mayors home and demend this man be freed. I really hope they contact the ACLU and this man is freed. We should



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Fact Sheet Regarding the Michael Salman Case



The Michael Salman court case is about building safety. Building and safety codes are in-place to protect the safety and welfare of all of our residents. Some of the relevant facts in this case include:

A house of worship is allowed in any zoning district in the City of Phoenix
The case is about the building that is used for regular assembly does not meet construction and fire code requirements for assembly
All houses of worship in the City of Phoenix must conform to the same codes


Looks like this is another case of someone disobeying city codes, then crying "religious persecution".



Due to the regular, reoccurring high vehicular traffic in this quiet residential neighborhood, neighbors repeatedly complained about the public assembly occurring on his property. Because of the multiple, reoccurring complaints, the City investigated the activity and discovered numerous building code violations primarily related to fire safety standards. Once apprised of these violations, the City could be held liable for not enforcing safety code requirements in the event anyone was injured on the premises. Prior to commencement of prosecution, Mr. Salman was asked, repeatedly, to comply with the safety codes of the City. He chose to ignore these requests for voluntary compliance prior to the commencement of any proceedings.

Below is a summary of the case from the City's Law Department, including quotes from the relevant court judgments.


Watch out for FOX news... There's an agenda there.


I figured there was more to this. Thank you for the post and saving me the 8 seconds of research it would have taken to find the truth. Well done. * for u



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 
The sad part is, that if someone upsets you, you can find a law, some law, ANY law that can be used against him.

Then why isn't the pastor doing just that against his neighborhood?


Having a church in the neighborhood isn't a bad thing.

That is YOUR OPINION.
My opinion is that 20 extra households worth of people on my street twice a week every week IS A BAD THING.


Yet people bemoan the fact that this guy was practising a religion while ignoring OBVIOUS dangers like homes that deal drugs, homes that produce meth, homes that are an actual danger to the rest of the neighborhood.


There is not a single post in this thread "bemoaning the fact that he is practicing his religion."
You are just making things up now.



There is a heirarchy in any religious organisation. If you're that steamed about the how and the where and the why then the neighbors should have gone over the guys head.


Um...they did. That is what this story is about.


But using the law like this is wrong, especially when it is so unevenly applied.



What?????



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by magma
 


I worked for a local health department, about 90% of calls are what we call grudge calls. A neighbor is being a jerk, so you pull a violation on them.

But upon most inspection, the neighbor has been a jerk for some time. or you have a lawn nazi who just doesn't like how they do their yard.

Which means I also know that for a team of police to finally get involved with this guy, means he has been a jerk for a long time. It takes a lot to get the locals involved over this sort of thing.

I actually agree with what Annee did, unmaintained sidewalks are a pet peeve of mine, whatever the reason.
Since Annee didn't break a noise violation, the neighbor was just being a pita, in which Annee promptly repaid.

And it usually works.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


And you didn't look into finances before you opened the church?

That is like buying a house before you know what the mortgage is.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by article
It's his GOD GIVEN RIGHT... Just as it's his CONSTITUTION GIVEN RIGHT.


miss... holier than thou...



So the police are more powerful than your god?
Pity.

Hey, what about his neighbors god given rights?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
The guy used the law to his benefit (tax-exempt status) yet ignored the law when it wasn't to his benefit (building codes).

If he'd have NOT filed for tax exempt status, I'd have still supported him.

But now?

The guy acts and sounds like a politician.


So on what basis would you have still supported him?
Because I want to know on what basis you would deny his neighbors any support.

Why him over them?



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