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posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by HangTheTraitors
 


There is a difference between the Ceremonial law, Mosaic law, and Divine Law. You will find that as part of the terms of the New Covenant many of the terms/conditions you will find listed in the Old Testament after the time of the Old Covenant being broken in the early few books in the Bible that the Divine Law (the 10 commandments) are still listed as part of the terms and reiterated in the New Testament as well. All of these other things being brought up were not made as part of the terms of the New Covenant.

For instance we see the Sabbath commandment (the 4 commandment of the Divine Law) being made as part of the terms of the New Covenant (including for gentiles/foreigners, meaning us now) still.


Isaiah 56:6,7 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant--these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Isaiah 58:13,14
"If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the LORD has spoken.


Commandment....................NT Parallel
#1 - No other gods...............1 Corinthians 8:5-6
#2 - No graven image...........1 Corinthians 10:7, 14; 1 John 5:21
#3 - Name of YHWH.............James 5:12
#4 - Sabbath.......................Hebrews 4:9
#5 - Honor father & mother....Ephesians 6:1
#6 - Murder.........................Mt. 5:21-22; James. 2:11
#7 - Adultery.......................Mt. 5:27-28; 1 Corinthians 6:18
#8 - Theft...........................Ephesians 4:28
#9 - False witness................Ephesians 4:25
#10 - Coveting.....................Ephesians 5:3

Analysis of Hebrews 4:9 'rest'


Now we come to a controversial statement: “there remains therefore a rest for the people of God” (verse 9). The Greek word translated “rest” in every other verse throughout Hebrews 3 and 4 is katapausis. The word for “rest” in Hebrews 4:9 is sabbatismos. This is the only New Testament occurrence of this word, and its meaning is fundamental to understanding this pivotal verse, which is the conclusion of everything previously said about “rest” beginning in Hebrews 3:7.

The Anchor Bible Dictionary states about the meaning of sabbatismos:

“The words ‘Sabbath rest” translate the [Greek] noun ‘sabbatismos,’ a unique word in the New Testament. This term appears also in Plutarch…for Sabbath observance, and in four postcanonical Christian writings which are not dependent on Hebrews 4:9, for seventh day ‘Sabbath celebration.’”

The Anchor Bible Dictionary continues with an explanation of the context:

“The author of Hebrews affirms in Hebrews 4:3-11 through the joining of quotations from Genesis 2:2 and Psalm 95:7 that the promised ‘Sabbath rest’ still anticipates a complete realization ‘for the people of God’ in the … endtime which had been inaugurated with the appearance of Jesus [Hebrews 1:1-3]… The experience of ‘Sabbath rest’ points to a present ‘rest’ (katapausis) reality in which those ‘who have believed are entering’ (4:3) and it points to a future ‘rest’ reality (4:11). Physical Sabbath-keeping on the part of the New Covenant believer as affirmed by ‘Sabbath rest’ epitomizes cessation from ‘works’ (4:10) in commemoration of God’s rest at creation (4:4 = Genesis 2:2) and manifests faith in the salvation provided by Christ.

“Hebrews 4:3-11 affirms that physical ‘Sabbath rest’ (sabbatismos) is the weekly outward manifestation of the inner experience of spiritual rest (katapausis) in which the final…rest is…experienced already ‘today’ (4:7). Thus ‘Sabbath rest’ combines in itself creation-commemoration, salvation-experience, and eschaton [end-time]-anticipation as the community of faith moves forward toward the final consummation of total restoration and rest.”
source

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest [Strong's #4520: sabbatismos] for the people of God.
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. source


Some information on the difference between the Divine Law and the Mosaic Law

Divine Law a Continuing Rule of Life
But then what about the believer today? If Mosaic law is abolished, is he under law? Is there for him a rule, a standard of conduct?

It is difficult for many to accept that law is in any sense a part of the believer's life today; law to them is wholly contrary to and exclusive of grace. Early dispensational writers especially were strong promoters of this view.10 The difficulty of this teaching lies in the clear presence in the apostolic writings of so many scores of commands addressed to believers as well as even explicit references to law (e.g. Gal. 6:2; James 1:25). Sin itself is defined as "lawlessness" (anomia, I John 3:4). Law is written on the heart of the New Covenant believer (Heb. 8:10), but it is law nonetheless. Clearly, the Christian is given law, a rule of life to which he is bound.

In answer to this problem, adherents of this view argue that these requirements are gracious rather than legal, being given within the framework of grace; that is, grace makes him willing and able to do what is right apart from legislated demands, and the believer is exhorted to righteousness merely on the basis of what God has done for him.11 After arguing long that no Christian can be placed under law ("or any respect of the law . . . or any phase of law") Chafer claimed that the "commandments" of Christ are not really "commands" after all(!) but the "teachings of grace."12 But this effectively reduces law to advice and commands to suggestions. God, of course, does not merely give advice. His revealed will is law--however gracious the context. McClain argued that the standard of conduct for today's believer is the example of Jesus and not law at all,13 but even that begs the question, for if there is any standard at all to which men are accountable, that standard (whatever it is) carries the force of law.

Accordingly, in those passages which Paul argues that the believer is "not under law" the meaning is not that he has no rule of life. At times Paul may argue that the believer is free from the law of Moses (e.g. Gal. 3:19-25; cf. Peter, Acts 15:10). At other times he may argue that the believer is free from the law as a means of justification (Rom. 10:4 and perhaps 6:14-1514)--he is not under its penalty of condemnation. But he never implies that there is no more law. Grace frees a man from the law's condemnation, but it does not leave him without a binding rule of life.

McClain argued that since there are no penalties stated in the New Testament it follows that there are no laws.15 However, there is a stated penalty: Hebrews 12 speaks plainly of chastisement for the disobedient son. Of course, there are no Mosaic penalties, but then the penal code of the law of Moses is not necessary for one not under Mosaic law. And while this chastisement may not have the same penal character as those penalties imposed by Moses, the fact of chastening for disobedience remains clear.

The believer today indeed has a rule of life. As was the case before and during the Mosaic economy, all men are bound to a divine standard of righteousness. Just as Divine law against idolatry, murder and theft was in effect before Moses, so it is binding after Moses. The Formula of Concord (1576), although confusing the law of God and the law of Moses, is entirely correct in its insistence that the law of God is today a "certain rule after which [regenerate men] may and ought to shape their life."16 The law of God--with or without formal codification--reflects eternal principles of righteousness that are always obligatory. It is an eternal standard; never could it become any less a binding rule of life.
...
Conclusion

But whatever the similarities or differences, it is to the stipulations of the New Covenant that today's believer must look for his rule of life. To look to the law of Moses, or any part of it, in order to establish a standard for today is to look in the wrong place. The basis of the Old and New Covenants is the same--the law of God. The details, however, are different, and this is to be expected. The law of God is still in effect, only under different codification. For any law to be enforced upon the Church it must be a law enjoined within the framework of New Covenant teaching, for it is the obligation of today's believer to follow these terms in his life under God.

Summary

The law of God is always binding and could never be anything else. Before Moses there was no formal codification of it. Since Moses there have been differing codifications of it in accordance with covenantal relationships. The Old and the New Covenants entail varying responsibilities, some of which are identical to each other (because of a common basis) and some exclusive of each other (because of fulfillment and further revelation). But the standard of conduct for today's believer is found in the framework of New Covenant teaching, not that of the Old Covenant. To this rule of life he is bound as to law, and this law, like that of Moses, is sufficient to bring men "to an acknowledgment of their sins." The Continuing Relevance of the Divine Law


Seek understanding before speaking on concepts you have not sussed fully
edit on 7-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



Christianity is used more for political or self-serving purposes, then for actual spiritual growth. Either it's used to make someone look good, or it's done so you don't burn for all of eternity.


You are misunderstanding God's character if you think God compels people by fear. The teaching on hell which you are suggesting originates in the Egyptian Amduat and was taken on-board my the Roman Catholic religion (because the are perfected paganism) and has been disseminated to many other denominations through the Catholic influence. God describes the fire like that which was reigned down on Sodom and Gomorrah. Are those 2 cities still burning? No. Are the consequences of the actions of the inhabitants of those cities lasting forever? Yes.



God describes how those who decide they don't want to be in the 'book of life' will receive Judgement based on their works, meaning that most people will be turned to ash in the blink of an eye. Those that have be cruel to others ect will take longer for them to be cleansed from the New Earth. There is no fear compulsion to follow God to escape Judgment (I you read the Bible correctly rather than rely on the BS that is spouted out of the mouths of most ministers). The only compulsion you should have to follow Jesus/God is because of His character as well as what you will miss out on in Heaven. People don't really appreciate just how much better 'life' will be like in Heaven and then back on the New Earth, just what it will mean for them.

A better description of God I am referencing would include: the one that sustains your every breathe, the one that loves you more than anyone, who had you on His mind before you were even born, who will never let you down when you call upon Him, who desires to be your personal friend and know you above anything else and wishes for you to find Him and take you to be with Him in paradise forever, the place where there is no tears, no sickness, no death or discord. With Him there every power will be developed, every capability increased. The grandest enterprises will be carried forward, the loftiest aspirations will be reached, the highest ambitions realized. And still there will arise new heights to surmount, new wonders to admire, new truths to comprehend, fresh objects to call forth the powers of body and mind and soul.

If people understood that they are turning down the opportunity to travel the stars and visit other worlds, to receive a beautiful new indestructible body, for their intellectual powers to be vastly increased and then to be able to pursue your highest thoughts and dreams unhindered like you are now, it seems crazy to me why anyone would turn this down, reject the person that loves them the most ect ect especially when there is so much independent historical accounts, archeology, science that confirm the Biblical account. Of course there is a minefield of deceptive content out there as well pulling people in one direction or another but if people seriously pursued research to see if they can confirm various areas of the Bible to have trust in it then there is heaps of content out their that provides the evidence. For people to actually dismiss God/Jesus after seeing all the evidence in an honest search for truth is more often the case that people don't want to 'see' the evidence because in the end they don't want to try align their character with that of Jesus.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 



If you are going to start judging others on what they do and what is lawful then at least get the time of the Sabbath right (Friday sun-down to Saturday sundown) and understand the intent of the Sabbath command instead of deciding for yourself what you think is lawful and what isn't.


Even more murder.

So we should put to death people working from Friday sun-down to Saturday sun-down.

Alright. Lots more potential murder with that understanding.


God describes the fire like that which was reigned down on Sodom and Gomorrah. Are those 2 cities still burning? No. Are the consequences of the actions of the inhabitants of those cities lasting forever? Yes.


And what was their sins? Before I debate it I need to know your interpretation.
edit on 7-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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You see people translate the bible and pretty much do with it what they want. I'm sorry I cannot believe in a book that has been corrupted by men for their own purposes. I mean really what the bible says about the treatment of women alone should make a person wonder.

1 Timothy 2:11-15:
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Dozens more examples of cruelty to women exist throughout the Bible. Women had suffered terribly for thousands of years because of what men, not any god, wrote in the Bible.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by Faitheliza
 



I mean really what the bible says about the treatment of women alone should make a person wonder.


One would hope. One would hope!

Women truly have been subjected to the tyranny of man due to religious belief.

But the modern religious folk will surely create some convoluted explanation as to why their faith in the Bible doesn't convey it!

Oftentimes the tired stance of 'New Covenant' (not that sexism cannot be found in NT), but other arguments as well.

To the people on the outside, it's obvious Christian religion has historically been very anti-women. To deny that is asinine.
edit on 7-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Bodhi7
reply to post by murphy22
 


So then why are there direct quotes in the bible with Jesus saying to still follow the old law? Why does the new testament teach to follow the 10 commandments that came from the old testament? The claim that christians aren't supposed to follow the old law is false and a cop out to avoid living such a strict life.


You are perfectly correct. The old law that Jesus refers to is the 10 commandments which is the Divine Law. Seventh-Day Adventists are the main body of Christians that are the only ones actually teaching and trying to follow complete obedience to God and what He desires for us.

Here are some quotes from the Roman Catholic Church who talking about the Sabbath commandment in which they changed to Sunday outside of the Bible:

Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

"The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who could find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation," Seventh-day Adventists. "They're cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God Himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New testaments, literally kept by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day, and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God while on earth." -Rome's Challenge, page two

"Is not yet too late for Protestants to redeem themselves. Will they do it?... will they indeed take the written word only, the Scripture alone, as their sole authority and their sole standard? Or will they still hold the indefensible, self contradictory, and suicidal doctrine and practice of following the authority of the Catholic church and wear the SIGN of her authority? Will they keep the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, according to Scripture? Or will they keep the Sunday according to the tradition of the Catholic church, -Ibid, page 31

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” — Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.

Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).

“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” — Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”

Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” — Rome's Challenge


Some sources confirming the observance of the 4th commandment from independent historical sources as well:

"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change." First Day Observance, pp. 17, 19.

"It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labour. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of the week." - Professor James C. Moffat, DD., Professor of Church History at Princeton.; from The Church in Scotland, pp140.

"They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a sabbatical manner...These things Margaret abolished" - A History of Scotland from the Roman Occupation, speaking of Queen Margaret's (a Catholic) decree.

"There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales universally until AD 1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David's. The old Welsh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places." - Lewis, Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America, Vol 1, p 29

Josephus , first century Historian, says : "There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clathie, Notes and Queries on China and Japan. (edited by Dennys),Vol.4, Nos. 7,8, p.100.

"It was the practice generally of the Eastern Churches; and some churches of the west..For in the church of Millaine [Milan];.. it seems the Saturday was held in farre esteem ..Not that the Eastern churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme [Judaism]; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus [Jesus] Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." , Dr. Heylyn's- History of the Sabbath Part 2, pp. 73,74, London: 1636

"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;..therefore the Christians for a long time together, did keep their conventions on the Sabbath, in which some portion of the Law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." The Whole Works of Jeremey Taylor, Vol. IX, p416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol.XII, p.416)

"The first matter concerned a keeping holy of Saturday. It had come to the earth of the archbishop that people in different places of the kingdom had ventured the keeping holy of Saturday. It is strictly forbidden- it is stated- in the Church-Law, for any one to keep or adopt holy-days. outside of those which the pope,archbishop, or bishops appoint." - speaking of the Church Council held at Bergen, Norway in the year 1435, The History of the Norwegian Church under Catholicism, R. Keyser, Vol II, p 488. Oslo: 1858.

"Thus we see Dan. 7 , 25, fulfilled, the little horn changing 'times and laws'. Therefore it appears to me that all who keep the first day for the Sabbath are Pope's Sunday-keepers and God's Sabbath-breakers."- American Elder T.M. Preble, Feb 13 1845.

"Centuries of the Christian era passed away before Sunday was observed by the Christian church as a sabbath. History does not furnish us with a single proof or indication that it was at any time so observed previous to the sabbatical edict of Constantine in A.D. 321" [Wm Dornville: Examination of Six Texts]

"They know little who do not know that the ancient Sabbath remained and was observed by the Eastern churches three hundred years after our Savior's passion" [Prof. Brerewood: Treatise on the Sabbath]

"There is no word, no hint in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday ... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters" [Canon Eyton: The Ten Commandments]

"Take which you will, either the Fathers or the moderns, and we shall find no Lord's Day instituted by any apostolical mandate, no Sabbath set on foot by them on the first day of the week" [P. Heylyn: History of the Sabbath]

"... the transference to [Sunday] of the sabbatical obligation established by the promulgation of the 4th commandment has no basis whatever either in Holy Scripture or in Christian antiquity" [Wm Smith: Dictionary of Christian Antiquity]

"In the interval between the days of apostles and the conversion of Constantine [4th. cent.] the Christian commonwealth changed its aspect... Rites and ceremonies of which neither Paul nor Peter ever heard crept into use then claimed the rank of divine institutions." [Dr Killen: The Ancient Church]

"The seventh-day Sabbath was solemnized [i.e. observed] by Christ, the Apostles and the primitive Christians - until the Council of Laodicea did, in a manner, quite abolish the observance of it. The Council (A.D. 364) first settled the observance of the Lord's Day" [Wm Prynne: Dissertations on the Lord's Day. Prynne was a 17th century Puritan]

"Since the institution of the Sabbath at the close of creation...there has been an unbroken line of God-loving men who have kept the seventh day of the week.... In the Western Church the seventh day continued to be observed quite generally till the fifth century." [Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge]

Coltheart's original version gratefully obtained from www.tagnet.org/llt/sabcen.htm 20th Century Roman Catholic and Protestant Confessions about Sunday Observance American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh "The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament." Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890 -From J.F. Coltheart


All the major protestant denominations know they have no leg to stand on as well in not following the commandment either:

Episcopal Church:

"Is there any command in the New Testament to change the day of weekly rest from Saturday to Sunday? None." (Manual of Christian Doctrine p.127)
- "We have made a change from the seventh day to the first day, form Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic and apostolic church of Christ." (Why we keep Sunday. p.28.)


Lutheran:

"The observance of the Lord's Day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."The Augsburg Confession" in: Catholic Sabbath Manual, part 2, section 10


Presbyterian:

"A change of the day to be observed from the last day of the week to the first. There is no record, no express command authorizing this change." (N.L. Rice, 'The Christian Sabbath', p.60)


Methodist:

"Take the matter of Sunday...there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day." (H. F. Rall, 'Christian Advocate', July 2, 1942.)


Congregationalist:

"IT is quite clear that however rigidly or devoutly we spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath...There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday." (Dr R.W. Dale, 'The Ten Commandments', pp100,101.)


Anglican:

"Many people think that Sunday is the Sabbath, but neither in the New Testament nor in the early church, is there anything to suggest that we have any right to transfer the observance of the seventh day of the week to the first. The Sabbath was and is Saturday and not Sunday..." (Rev. Lionel Beere, 'Church and People', Sept. 1st 1947


Baptist:

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday...There is no scripture evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh day to the first day of the week." (Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, (author of the Baptist Manual) New York Ministries Conference, Nov. 13, 1893.)


You will find that many Christians are willing to throw away the entire Divine Law just so that they don't have to keep the Sabbath Commandment. And that is why the final end days test for lukewarm believers is going to come down to their allegiance to God and worship.

Rome, the beast of the sea power (Daniel little horn power) says that Sunday is its mark:

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” — Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act...And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” — H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.


And that keeping this mark is showing their allegiance is not to God but to man:
What Does the Beast power say keeping its 'Mark' means


“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” — Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.

“It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.


God says that His Mark is the Sabbath:

Ezekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave [5414] them my sabbaths, [7676] to be a sign [0226] between me and them, that they might know [3045] that I [am] the LORD [3068] that sanctify [6942] them.

Ezekiel 20:20
And hallow [6942] my sabbaths; [7676] and they shall be a sign [0226] between me and you, that ye may know [3045] that I [am] the LORD [3068] your God. [0430]

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign [Hebrew - 'Owth'] between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed

strongs #0226 word?
SIGN: Hebrew: 'owth', meaning - sign, token, ensign, mark, a distinguishing mark, signal, banner, remembrance
classic.net.bible.org..., www.blueletterbible.org...


The Bible says in Revelation to worship the creator.

Revelation 14:7 Worhship Him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water

We see this parallel with the giving on the 4th commandment

Exodus 20:11 'For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."


But the false sabbath Sunday is a veneration of the Sun (creation not the creator)

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"
--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].

Sunday was the name given by the heathens to the first day of the week, because it was the day on which they worshiped the sun." John Eadie, D.D., LL.D. A Bible Cyclopedia, p. 561

'Webster's International Dictionary, 19th edition' - Sunday...so called because this day was anciently dedicated to the sun, or its worship



1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning
Isaiah 8:20 to the Law and to the testimony: If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands
Matthew 19:17 "...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments"
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus


What will cause the plagues in Revelation 16 to fall on those not found in the 'book of life'?
Well what caused the plagues to fall on the Egyptians?
We find the reason for the plagues in Exodus chapter 5. In reading this story we find that the Hebrews are requesting to take a break from their labors, and specifically in Exodus 5:5 we see why. Pharaoh says, "You make them rest from their labor" (KJV). The word Pharaoh used for rest is 'shabbat' (Strong's #7673) the word which is also found used in Genesis 2:2. Therefore the Hebrews were endeavoring to keep the commands of God by keeping the Sabbath day holy. The reason that the plagues came upon the Egyptians was because Pharaoh instituted a new civil law to double the labors of the Hebrews that would prevent them from being able to keep the Sabbath as God had intended for his people, a civil law that was against the Divine law of God. The bible is trying to inform us if we study it what we can expect from the great future event given what occurred under similar circumstances in the past.

When the false impersonating Christ comes trying to establish his kingdom on this Earth and sets up a civil law that is against the Divine Law of God, specifically concerning the 4th commandment which shows your allegiance to the Creator, then you will know what the test is and the beast's mark.
edit on 7-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Sad but true so many people use the bible as a weapon and honestly I think they should be worried about God's wrath and punishment on them and not about spewing their hate and prejudice around the way they do. It's easy to hide behind the bible but at home you use and abuse your wife and family for example. It's disgusting.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by Faitheliza

You see people translate the bible and pretty much do with it what they want. I'm sorry I cannot believe in a book that has been corrupted by men for their own purposes. I mean really what the bible says about the treatment of women alone should make a person wonder.

1 Timothy 2:11-15:
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Dozens more examples of cruelty to women exist throughout the Bible. Women had suffered terribly for thousands of years because of what men, not any god, wrote in the Bible.



That is cruelty towards women?

Cruelty towards women is when men drag them like the cave men did for sex. Men needed to learn not to be like the animals who we all see how most have sex and they dont bring the females flowers. But then we, at some point, were told we really are animals...and look what happened.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
havent met a single person yet that follwed half of their own religions rules, muslims, jews, christians, buddhist

THEY ALL KILL



Jehovah's Witnesses don't. In all of the wars and genocides of the 20th and 21st century no one has been killed by the hand of a Jehovah's Witness anywhere in the world.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by Malcher
 


Yes. That is cruelty towards women.

Jesus Christ! (pun intended)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Malcher
 


Yes. That is cruelty towards women.

Jesus Christ! (pun intended)


Compared to how they were treated before? This is only because you dont know so i give you a pass and make exceptions due to ignorance.

The Bible invented the concept of marriage where women had respect and not just for the taking...from the strongest brute. This was an advancement.
edit on 7-8-2012 by Malcher because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


What's that saying about arguing with fools? I won't even bother it's not worth the time or aggravation.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 


Again a Christian professing themselves as the true understanding of Christianity.

Sorry, but us non-believers don't believe you over Catholics or Mormons or Protestant or any other Christian denomination etc etc. You are all professing Christ. You all profess to know the true word of God. All preach from the same Bible (yes I know some of those religions have other texts, but they still use the Bible in addition).



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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Originally posted by Malcher

Compared to how they were treated before?


What on earth does this mean? What's your point? Sorry I don't get it. Elaborate and I will respond.


This is only because you dont know so i give you a pass and make exceptions due to ignorance.


Don't give me a pass. Call me out. But explain fully your reasoning...


The Bible invented the concept of marriage

Hotly debated.


where women had respect and not just for the taking...from the strongest brute. This was an advancement.

Again I just don't understand please paraphrase... I do want to understand.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by SubAce
 


Again a Christian professing themselves as the true understanding of Christianity.

Sorry, but us non-believers don't believe you over Catholics or Mormons or Protestant or any other Christian denomination etc etc. You are all professing Christ. You all profess to know the true word of God. All preach from the same Bible (yes I know some of those religions have other texts, but they still use the Bible in addition).


Are you referring to the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to go to war and pick up arms and fight each other or other people? That is a well-known fact. Even Jesus himself said there would be many people claiming to profess faith in him, but that his true disciples would be known by this fact:

(John 13:35) By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.”

If you want to know who really practices what the Bible preaches it is really simple. True Christians:

1. Do not put their faith in man-made doctrines or creeds, base their beliefs 100% on the Bible alone, and nothing else.

2. Have love among each other.

3. Do not participate in politics or go to war.

4. Preach the good news of God's kingdom in all the earth as a witness to all the nations.

5. Bear the name of Jehovah God as his witnesses. To back this up:

(Isaiah 43:10, 11) “YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

(Romans 10:13-15) . . .For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”


6. Are in complete agreement and unity worldwide.

All of these requirements come from the Bible itself. All you have to do is find the group of people who are actually doing what the Bible requires of a Christian and you will have found the truth. It really doesn't matter if there are thousands of counterfeits. The Bible is the soul authority. If you don't follow it you aren't real Christians:

(Matthew 7:21-23) . . . “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.


That there are so many counterfeits is not surprising either for the Satan, god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers that they may not get to know the truth:

(2 Corinthians 4:4) among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

(2 Corinthians 11:14, 15) 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. . .



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by SubAce
 


Again a Christian professing themselves as the true understanding of Christianity.

Sorry, but us non-believers don't believe you over Catholics or Mormons or Protestant or any other Christian denomination etc etc. You are all professing Christ. You all profess to know the true word of God. All preach from the same Bible (yes I know some of those religions have other texts, but they still use the Bible in addition).


I think it has been explained throughout these threads but i will go over it one more time. The Bible, old and new testaments were written to reflect the times. Christians look at their Bible as being written by men, men are fallible. Even still the old testament improved on some things that were considered normal for the times, you guys cannot seem to grasp that the Bible was not written in 1985. The New Testament has some very profound passages...these people were very intelligent. The "Red Letter Bible" is what Jesus said.

I think the "union" or some form of contractual view of marriage first appeared in the old testament though. I would say this was an improvement, especially for women.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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Are you referring to the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to go to war and pick up arms and fight each other or other people?


Again no. No I am not. I am referring to all of Christendom. If you don't understand what I mean by that you either haven't read my posts or have read them but choose to disregard it.

I have already many times elaborated on my thoughts about the idea of a "true Christian". Please read my posts and respond to my thoughts already posted, I feel no need to keep repeating them.
edit on 7-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Malcher

The Bible, old and new testaments were written to reflect the times.

I agree completely.


Christians look at their Bible as being written by men, men are fallible.

lol!

Yeah that would be my position!

Christians look at the Bible that way!?

I thought the belief was the Bible, its words, were inspired by God as a result of direct communion with God. I agree it was written by mankind and mankind is fallible! A thumbs up from me bro!


Even still the old testament improved on some things that were considered normal for the times

If forcing a rape victim to marry their rapist is a moral improvement than I shudder to think what it was like before.


you guys cannot seem to grasp that the Bible was not written in 1985.

Wut?


The New Testament has some very profound passages...these people were very intelligent.

Profound yes. Profoundly immoral sometimes. I am very intelligent. What's your point with that?


The "Red Letter Bible" is what Jesus said.

I am aware.


I think the "union" or some form of contractual view of marriage first appeared in the old testament though. I would say this was an improvement, especially for women.


Nevermind the idea it first appeared in the Bible, elaborate on how that's an improvement for women.
edit on 7-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by SubAce

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
havent met a single person yet that follwed half of their own religions rules, muslims, jews, christians, buddhist

THEY ALL KILL



Jehovah's Witnesses don't. In all of the wars and genocides of the 20th and 21st century no one has been killed by the hand of a Jehovah's Witness anywhere in the world.


Because they are a seperate cult. Christian pretenders.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


You have produced some decent texts here but you too are not understanding the full context of the Divine Law, the path of righteousness, and the need for repentance of transgression from the law still.


Hebrews 10:26-39

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Just Live by Faith

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”


39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.



Hebrews 12:3-8

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Discipline of God

3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.



2 Peter 2:18-22
Deceptions of False Teachers

18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. (John 15:6, Matthew 7:19, Matthew 3:10, Luke 3:9)


Check out this link for a full rebuttal of Romans 10:4 Christ the end of the law?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Some argument to consider out your Galations 3 passages

The fault of the Old Covenant was that their was no forgiveness component given and the Hebrews didn't realize they couldn't keep it in their own strength, that they need the Holy Spirit to come strengthen them when they were on the verge of transgression and feeling weak in their own flesh.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Now we are given the Holy Spirit to strengthen us if we choose to seek after good sincerely
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

The Holy Spirit doesn't automatically fulfill the Law in us to make us righteous. We need to follow after the Spirit and heed Its warnings when they come up. The earlier passages in this post show what God thinks of those who choose to turn back to their own 'vomit'/sinful ways and thinking they can get away with it because of God's grace. God says that it will be much worse for them then if they had never known God at all and that they will be like a branch that doesn't produce good fruit (cut of from the Vine i.e God) and thrown into the fire. There is a difference in having no law and not being 'under the law'. It is like when you are caught by the police for speeding and they let you go this time (grace). You are still meant to keep the law and there won't be further grace if you take it for granted again.
edit on 7-8-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)





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