Christians cant eat lobster, wear polyester, wear gold, eat rabbit, have tattoos, get divrced, have

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by b14warrior

 

My Issue with you is that in some ways your have taken a shotgun to bigotry and the pelets have spread far too widely.

T

And in part I agree with you although I feel it was partly my wording and rashness but mainly my mistaken thought that people would read all of the posts on this thread rather than just my first. If they did read my other posts then they would see that this is not hate or an attack.

reply to post by Shimri

Excellent post, and I apologize that I almost missed it by missing a page.

You bring up a good point, and you are getting more complex then the time I have to contribute to this thread ATM. I was simplifying somewhat because there are technically multiple covenants, not simply an old and new. There are also Covenants that God made with Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Israel itself, etc... These can get pretty complex, and we could spend pages discussing it. Most of those old covenants still do not apply to Christians or to Gentiles however.

Gentiles will never be Gods “First Fruits”, and the covenant you mention is still not between gentiles and God, its between Israel and God. Those Jews that accept Christ are promised to be Gods “First Fruits” and the Gentile Christians fall into an entirely different category. This is clearly shown in the Book of Revelation:

These are the “First Fruits”:

Revelation 7
4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

These are the Gentile Christians:

Revelation 7
The Great Multitude in White Robes

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:


“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

why you gotta make a thread and want people to argue?


I havent posted here forever..but, hmmm maybe i'll start again..lol

I HATE religion..i hate it all..and OP..i think you know why.

This is such BS...

All these rules made by WHO?

You are you're own god..

There is no other god before you.

Those are written words...you know what is real..dont listen to other people..seek it in your heart.

It's really scary to think there is no GREAT man in the sky looking out for you...well..if there was, do you think you'd still be here? Dont you think he'd have answered your prayers by now? Dont lie..you asked for money.

No..he didnt because ALL of you are hypocrites, liars, thieves and shyteheads..not one of you are real and worthy of any god...(hey..i know im not)

Face it, the human race is doomed. We are as bad, and worse, than the animal population on this little blue planet..thats why I usually dont even bother with posting. Not worth it..Thanks OP

Originally posted by nunyadammm
Well if only the NT applies to Christians then where does Jesus condemn Homosexuality?

Isn't that part about homosexuality also in the OT?

He doesn't, and actually seems to support it, hence, "Love they neighbor as thyself." Here is something that may interest Christians:

Jesus Christ ‘Most Likely’ Was Gay Says Anglican Priest

At the age of 33, Jesus was either married, according to Law, or he was Homosexual.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by seeker1963

 

Leviticus was from the old testament, (Torah) which was a set of laws for the Jews! NOT CHRISTIANS!
The New Testament is for the Christians!

How can two books be designed for two different religions that, by looking at the book, are based off the exact same premise, yet one has different rules from the other? Same story, some beginning, same general storyline...but different rules. Either they changed the rules to suit each religion, or they just decided that they were going to write a new version and pass it off as "how, it was MEANT for just us Christians, the Jews have their own regime. Even though we use pretty much the same book, have the same God, observe the same rituals (with a few exceptions) and we just do it the modern way and they do it the old-fashioned way". So what I'm seeing here is yet more CHERRY PICKING.

ENOUGH OF THE GOD NAMEK CHERRY PICKING!!!! Either you will follow the Bible according to the letter and punish any who do not do so, or you will STOP JUDGING based on other people breaking rules that even YOU do not obey half the time. I heard a woman the other day, a self-proclaimed Christian, calling out imprecations and judgments (words for prostitution and female dogs) on another woman who wasn't present, and I just walked up and looked at her and said, "Is that how your preacher talks?"

Christianity is mostly a religion of convenience. Dollar Store spirituality. No one REALLY takes it seriously, because it's been made so simple that it's HARD to take it seriously. No one puts in the work, no one actually tries to understand, I've been talking to people recently and they've threatened to punch me in the face for disputing their religion. I heard a phrase from a friend the other day, something I really like: "When people view new ideas with suspicion, it's because they already know the old ideas aren't working."

Does this make sense to anyone?

edit on 5-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Silly uneducated biblicaly illiterate people that lack discernment. It's you that cherry picks, not us. We actually know and understand what we read. You do a google and pretend you know something.
One is the beginning that LEADS to a manifold wisdom about the mystery of sin.
I have never seen so many people that think they know something and then broadcast to the world how ignorant they are on what they post about. What is worse is that they REFUSE to be taught and continue on after someone reproves them thinking and pretending they know more thatn those that can exercize discernment and actually DID DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.
Has everyone become this dumb? This isn't new stuff here. There are 100's of thousands of books written on this for the last centuries. I swear google has made people so dumb they think dumb is smart.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
No meaning obscured. Phew that was close....

Its not obscured to anyone that wishes to take the time to look up anything that they need that level of detail on. I'm pretty sure that anyone can get a Strong's Concordance, I have one sitting right next to my desk.

However, for most, they just do not need that level of detail, and if you make it too much work they will not use it as they should and will shun reading it. This is a well known fact in ALL religion, not simply in Christianity. Do you think that when you go listen to a pastor teach in church that he gives sermons that only a theologian can understand, or that everyone not only understands, but also enjoys? If you want to get into more detail, then you take a Bible course that all Churches usually offer additionally after church.

reply to post by autowrench

And again...

Mark 10
“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Neither the New Testament, nor Christ supported any such thing. Marriage is well talked about in the Bible, and Christ and his relationship to the Church is frequently referred too in the Bible in relation to a Marriage. Any sexual relationship outside of Marriage is either Fornication or Adultery in both the New and Old Testament.

It's so sad that our culture is dumbed down to the point we have to respond to this level of ignorance about the cornerstone of western civilization, Biblical Christianity, the teachings of which have provided you nice people the freedom to post this trash.

The average person can't explain the difference between a Protestant and a Catholic or why they should understand something so seemingly unimportant.

I know, for I too am a product of public education so I graduated high school with the belief that my parents were fools and God was dead. Then I got the opportunity to do some research and I've looked at this from both sides.

I'm not nearly as smart as I thought I was.

Originally posted by b14warrior

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by b14warrior

 

My Issue with you is that in some ways your have taken a shotgun to bigotry and the pelets have spread far too widely.

T

And in part I agree with you although I feel it was partly my wording and rashness but mainly my mistaken thought that people would read all of the posts on this thread rather than just my first. If they did read my other posts then they would see that this is not hate or an attack.

no, I agree with you. You don't feel you are attacking anyone. You simply feel you know something by doing a google. It's just ignorance on the topic that drives you that is so overwhelming it looks to those that know what you pretend to know conclude it must be hate driven, because it comes from so much ignorance on the topic that there must be a reason for you to expose yourself publicly that it must be something like hate for you to do it.

My question is, what are you to do with the info you gather from those you are addressing, those that have actually done their due diligence on this topic? Do you remain ignorant and correct yourself or continue on beating that dead horse? Because then we do have to wonder if it comes from something deeper like hate. We don't want to think your ignorance is actually stupidity. We do want to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you to refine your google query once reproved and corrected, savvy?

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by nunyadammm
Well if only the NT applies to Christians then where does Jesus condemn Homosexuality?

Isn't that part about homosexuality also in the OT?

He doesn't, and actually seems to support it, hence, "Love they neighbor as thyself." Here is something that may interest Christians:

Jesus Christ ‘Most Likely’ Was Gay Says Anglican Priest

At the age of 33, Jesus was either married, according to Law, or he was Homosexual.

Now think about this for a moment. Do you know how many people there are that refuse to do their own due diligence and want to believe a gossip whore like you? You really want to lie in that bed?

look how that is phrased. "most likely". I expect that from a gossip whore. It certainly isn't accurate or scholarly but reaks of sabbatean talmudic whoremonguering. I swear the world went completely dumb since I went to bed last night.

Guys, you all know that I cannot mod in this thread because I’m yacking in it, but still, lets keep it civil please. There is no reason for name calling, and especially if you're proclaiming to be a Christian, in which case name calling is not making a very good impression of your faith.

I know that this is a borderline heated debate, and it has moved along quickly, but seriously if anyone is getting that upset, then take a break from it for a bit.

reply to post by b14warrior

OP, I never did get back to you like I intended to. My apologies. Your question is valid, and the answer is relatively simple.

...I am specifically questioning why many of the more vocal Christians use the line from Leviticus in the Old Testament to condemn homosexuals.

There are two reasons for this.
1. The same things that God hated in the old testament, he still hates in the new testament. In other words, God himself hasn't changed. But because of Christ, the way he deals with humans has changed in a manner of speaking...
2. Because many Christians don't know and understand their bible. It really is that simple.

Here's what I found in many years as a practicing Christian. The more mouthy and vocal a given group of Christians are, the less they know.

If you want answers from Christians that know and understand what they believe, and why. Go to older, more seasoned and grounded Christians like "NOTurTypical". He will answer you with honesty and knowledge. And more importantly, he will be truthful.

en.wikipedia.org...
This movie is a good representation of Christianity presented as a comedy. As good as anything produced by a secular society. What's sad is it the concepts presented would go over the heads of most moviegoers today. In 1967 enough of the audience would still have had the background to understand it.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Their excuse for everything in the bible that they CLEARLY REFUSE to acknowledge or abide by is always the jesus and new testament excuse which "changes everything" per them now.

[color=dodgerblue]Everything written in the "old book" is now completely not valid any longer despite "god" having spent all that time and effort, into telepathically speaking this books silly content to his chosen humans to write for him. It is now old and not in effect per them because of...

...their... magical...man-god...jeeezus!!!!

So now they say a little prayer in thy mind to their sun-god and then they can ignore everything in the bible and [color=gold]do what ever they want and still go to their little golden-paved, gem-stone-filled heaven in the sky where all they do is sing songs of praise to a violent psychopath who loves hate, wars, violence, suffering, and murdering humans.

As long as you say a little prayer to a bearded guy once in awhile...

Fools and their fairy-tales. And fairy-tales that dont even make ANY SENSE at that.

don't forget the 10% [ahem] donation.

"Thank you for visiting. Come again"

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by juleol
reply to post by b14warrior

 

Yet not a single christian lives according to these rules. But I guess it is okay since they can just ask Jesus for forgivance... Does not matter if you murder someone or just lie to someone as you are still accepted into heaven as long as you ask for forgivance...

Perhaps it's you and the OP who misunderstand God's commands. You want to believe that mixing linen and wool together is His message, when in reality He is giving an altogether different message. Hint: it has nothing to do with "fibers", and therefore anyone pushing that interpretation as 'proof' that the Bible is not applicable today is simply controlling your mind to keep you from even wanting to seek the salvation of the One True Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If you are happy and content to think that your Creator is at all interested in what you WEAR, then it is your choice to do so. Just know that the prince of this world counts on your love of lies and your distaste of Truth.

What was the message? I need more than a hint...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

There is much in the Bible advocating violence towards those that reject the belief..that's kind of like forcing

Actually, it is just like forcing. Christianity has been about forcing people to join their cult for Centuries. Look at what happened to the Aztecs? Look at the so called "Witch Burnings" all over Europe? Even today, when they come around to "invite" you to their Church, it is only a matter of time before you feel forced into joining, and taking part in the rituals.

Yet the moral beliefs Christians get from these teachings are used all the time to discriminate. And to influence the voting booth.

Morals? I have seen some pretty low morals coming from that crowd. I remember a certain preacher who was hot for one of his Deacon's daughters, a cute 15 year old. The parents found out, and placed a restraining order on him. So he followed the parents to a bowling alley and proceeded to set a bomb under the parents car. Thankfully, he was spotted and stopped before he could do any damage. This man was a popular minister of a Methodist church in our town, with a congregation of over 200. He got 10 years for attempted murder and attempted rape of a minor child.
I know that is just one man, and does not mean all Christians are like this. I'm just saying, being a Christian does not make one a moral character automatically.

Your wording is key here. Notice you just said the ones that don't have a high level of understanding are still Christians. All the the shades in between.

Wording is extremely important, especially if you wish your message to be taken seriously. I was just ranting about this wording thing yesterday in another thread. Some Christians speak as though they were "there." Or they personally "heard" what a particular person said, or thought at a given moment in time. Instead of saying, "in my opinion," or , it is my theory," they just say, it is THIS.

All of Christendom. All the Christian Churches and the Christian members.

This is something I would like to see defined. Christians always say, "we are not all like that." "Our Church is different from that one." "We were not taught that in our Church."

Think of Christendom as an Army. All rally under the same flag, or banner. All swear allegiance to the Commander, Jesus Christ, and all are ready to go to extremes to get their message out. So when one, such as I say "Christians," this is what I am talking about, and I'm sure many others of the educated secular crowd are talking about. The Common Banner defines you all as one group, whether you may like it or not.

Ergo why many of us continue to point out all those atrocious things in the OT.

'Nuff said that.

This isn't a matter of the proper way to understand the Bible it's a matter of looking pragmatically on how it really is being understood in the World at large.

I agree. I have read through and studied the Bible, and I have an understanding of it, what it is, how it came to be, and what the stories were based on originally. So I came away with my own theory of the "Bible," as used in common usage of speech. Someone else may see it all differently. Anyone who doesn't read it, and just listens to what another says about it is getting second hand information. To define anything one must always seek out the Source. All Roads Lead to Ancient Sumer.

reply to post by dogstar23

I am a Christian - I believe gays should be allowed to marry. I have had gay friends. I eat pork, well, religiously. I'm Catholic technically, but I have used birth control, etc. So please, always remember that loud vocal minority of crazies don't represent most Christians....

I certainly appreciate hearing that! I'll bet you don't practice hate for other religious faiths either, do you? It does seem to be a vocal minority who is preaching all this hate and scorn on the Internet and on the street. I think you all need to police up some of your membership, like that crowd at Westboro Baptist Church, for instance. I went to school with many Catholic kids, and remember they used to act guilty all the time. Never once tried to get me to join them though, and that I can appreciate.

reply to post by b14warrior


Thank God for the New Testament!.......no more silly directives.

reply to post by carewemust

Satan is called the "Prince of the Power of the Air" (Wind) in Ephesians 2:2. He is called the "Ruler of this World" in John 12:31. These titles, and many more attributed to Satan throughout the Bible signify his capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way, or in every way, he rules over the world and the people in it.

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by b14warrior

 

I am not a Christian, but I can tell you that your logic and insecurity of someones elses religion is extremely flawed!
Leviticus was from the old testament, (Torah) which was a set of laws for the Jews! NOT CHRISTIANS!
The New Testament is for the Christians!

Not sure why you have to post against someones religious beliefs if you don't yourself agree with them, and if you do, you might want to make sure that your posting is accurate!

edit on 5-8-2012 by seeker1963 because: wording

The Ten commandments are from the old testament so are they also not to be obeyed by christians?

Here`s something from the new testament:
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Matthew 5:17-18 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.