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A logical deduction on how to live life (without bias or social constructs)...

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posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Yes, we exist... I don't see what point you are trying to make here?



If you say "I Am" you are saying "I Exist"


Yes, and this has no qualities of worth attached to it. It just is. You tried to "logically" assume that existence concludes worth, because there is existence. I said "worth" is just a human construct, where as "existence" is not. Yes, they are both words, but one is pointing to a human construct and the other is pointing to what is, meaning what is before human conception. Dwelling there is where deep peace/tranquility is actualized, we can agree on that. All I was saying is your "logical deduction" made no logical sense because you are presupposing existential functions on to intellectually constructed terms like "worth" and "true nature"...




posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jiggerj
 


The thing is, being "human" is being two beings at once. On one side you have the higher intellect that can reason, rationalize, and realize. On the other side you have the animal, the beast, the living creature.

To be "human" is very relative. I, for example, prefer to try to eschew large portions of the animal human so as to hlp me drive focus. Others do the same with different animal behaviors.

The intellectual human is, typically, calm and reserved. This is the cool, rational, reasoning being. The animal human can provide lots of noise which corrupts the "signal" of the intellectual human. This is our base desires, our emotions, our non rational behaviors and actions.

I hunt, as that is part of a core human-animal aspect. But I generally do not involve myself in the more social human-animal aspects. I can cope well in a social situation, but i don't enjoy it and don't generally seek it out.

I think each of us has our various mix of the duality of human being.
I guess what you have to ask is, are you this duality? Or are you one or the other? What is human, our body or our personality? And how much of our personality is impacted by the animal human?


Are we fooling ourselves with the idea of duality? The brain chemicals responsible for the way we perceive the world on an intellectual level are the same chemicals that cause our emotions. If we change the brain chemistry, then both, perception and emotions change. Best example I can come with right now is women and menopause.
Even a female considered to be highly intelligent will suffer from:

Some of the emotional changes experienced by women undergoing perimenopause or menopause can include:

Irritability
Feelings of sadness
Lack of motivation
Anxiety
Aggressiveness
Difficulty concentrating
Fatigue
Mood changes
Tension
menopause, Emotions, Depression, Mood

Clearly these changes will affect how females perceive themselves and the world around them.
This indicates that we are not a certain percentage intellectual and a certain percentage emotional. It's one package. Take away one, we lose the other.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Are we fooling ourselves with the idea of duality? The brain chemicals responsible for the way we perceive the world on an intellectual level are the same chemicals that cause our emotions. If we change the brain chemistry, then both, perception and emotions change. Best example I can come with right now is women and menopause.
Even a female considered to be highly intelligent will suffer from:

Some of the emotional changes experienced by women undergoing perimenopause or menopause can include:

Irritability
Feelings of sadness
Lack of motivation
Anxiety
Aggressiveness
Difficulty concentrating
Fatigue
Mood changes
Tension
menopause, Emotions, Depression, Mood

Clearly these changes will affect how females perceive themselves and the world around them.
This indicates that we are not a certain percentage intellectual and a certain percentage emotional. It's one package. Take away one, we lose the other.


Perception is often clouded by emotion...it is not logical. It is animalistic. That whole saying, "Perception is reality" belays this fact, as we are not pointing out in that saying that reality is reality.

So then, what is mind? Do you really believe that it resides within the skull? Have you considered that it may not? I am not going to tell you I know something, or believe something. What I will tell you is some of the things I think. One of them is that the mind is external to the human body, and that the brain is just akin to a modem. The better your modem, the better you connect to your mind/self.

Below is a series by Deepak Chopra, discussing the whole Jungian concept of the Mind Field:


Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

In my own studies, I have spent quite a bit of time studying various events. The Ingo Swann story from Stanford Research Institute was, in itself, a big eye opener. It was when I changed my view of "psi" from paranormal, to scientific. It would appear that I am not the only one to have had this shift in viewpoint (as evidenced by the participation of the entire SRI team, along with Chopra and Jung, mentioned above), and now am more about trying to figure out: is this a mind field phenomena? Or is it more non-locality, yet individual?

I used to talk with this old guy that was one of those half crazy mystics. One thing he repeated was, "We are multifaceted beings". When I would ask him to clarify what he was saying, he would only say, "millions of faces don't describe how multifaceted we are".

This resonated with me because of some things an old Mexican shaman had said to me once. He was insistent that the references to the gods in ancient Amerind culture were references to creatures that had multiple faces that terrified people. This, of course, was something that gave me hours of consideration as thought fodder.

I will be working so much today/tomorrow, that I can only hope to swing through again....but I hope you enjoy thinking about the idea, anyway.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by openlocks
reply to post by arpgme
 

Yes, and this has no qualities of worth attached to it. It just is. You tried to "logically" assume that existence concludes worth, because there is existence. I said "worth" is just a human construct, where as "existence" is not.


It is just semantics. When I said "That which exists is worthy of it existence because if it weren't, it wouldn't exist". The word "Worth" is actually being used in the sense of "have the ability or power to", that which is not "ABLE" to exist would not exist, and sense you are ABLE to exist as you are, you should just be who you are by basic existential logic, now once you start adding in, human concepts of "right" and "wrong" (social constructs) it gets a little messy...



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

So then, what is mind? Do you really believe that it resides within the skull? Have you considered that it may not? I am not going to tell you I know something, or believe something. What I will tell you is some of the things I think. One of them is that the mind is external to the human body, and that the brain is just akin to a modem. The better your modem, the better you connect to your mind/self.


This may be a flaw of mine, or maybe a sort of mental self-preservation, but when I am confronted with ideas that conflict with my logic, I can almost feel the doors slamming in my mind, refusing to let me hear any more on a subject until my questions are satisfactorily answered. Like if someone were to tell me that their car is an anti-gravity vehicle when I can clearly see four tires resting firmly on the ground, no matter how much he tries to explain, I can't absorb it.

That said, I have way too many questions on the idea that our thoughts come from outside of our minds. If everyone's thoughts came from one frequency (like having everyone's radio tuned into the same radio station) then we would all be thinking exactly alike.

Since no two people think exactly alike, it would mean that, today, there are seven billion different frequencies. Doesn't this sound impossible to you as it does to me?

Two points here: If our physical brains are receiving information, then that information must be coming from a physical sender. When listening to a car radio, the clarity sometimes wanes and disappears altogether when we drive through tunnels or poor reception areas. So, what does a radio station have to do to alleviate this poor reception? It has to boost its power. This doesn't happen to our minds. We could dig to the center of the earth and our minds would still function as it would anywhere else.

Keeping the radio station in mind, if our thoughts come from another dimension, reached into this universe, to this planet, and to pinpoint each of the seven billion minds (with perfect and unending clarity), the amount of power needed isn't even fathomable.

So, no, I cannot accept this theory at all, and my mind won't absorb any further discussion on it until the obstacles I propose are clearly explained.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Since no two people think exactly alike, it would mean that, today, there are seven billion different frequencies. Doesn't this sound impossible to you as it does to me?


What if, there is only one mind, and everyone is connecting to different parts of it? We are all modems connecting to different parts of the internet. This can also explain how someone can "come up" with an idea that someone else already came up with.

Not all of the "web sites" are accurate, though...



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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The mind is a system that has been overlaid over the true intelligence. The mind is a programme that is running you, until you understand what mind is, it will be your master.
edit on 6-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


No, I am running the mind. My mind has a bunch of information gathered from the 5 senses which I can choose from.

I can choose right now to think of food... Even if something in my environment caused me to think of this subject, I can still choose what thing I want to focus on from this subject such as "pizza" or "doughnut" or any other food... and then once I CHOOSE from the collection of data from my mind, I can focus on that one thing if I choose, or I can think of another food.

This is just an example to show that we have mental-CHOICE/Mental-Freedom , we get to CHOOSE from the options available in our mind. You even said yourself that you can go "beyond" the mind, and be "aware" of the thoughts, so that is even another CHOICE, to guide the mind through its collected thoughts or to just be aware of them...



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by jiggerj

Since no two people think exactly alike, it would mean that, today, there are seven billion different frequencies. Doesn't this sound impossible to you as it does to me?


What if, there is only one mind, and everyone is connecting to different parts of it? We are all modems connecting to different parts of the internet. This can also explain how someone can "come up" with an idea that someone else already came up with.

Not all of the "web sites" are accurate, though...


Not bad, arp. Not bad at all. But this does raise more questions than it answers.

Our physical modems are receiving information from a physical server.

Our physical brains (our receivers) are receiving info from where?
Also, why is it that the information suddenly becomes irrational when we dream?
edit on 8/6/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by jiggerj

Since no two people think exactly alike, it would mean that, today, there are seven billion different frequencies. Doesn't this sound impossible to you as it does to me?


What if, there is only one mind, and everyone is connecting to different parts of it? We are all modems connecting to different parts of the internet. This can also explain how someone can "come up" with an idea that someone else already came up with.

Not all of the "web sites" are accurate, though...


That is exactly what i said. The brain is a modem, the mind is the collective. If your modem works well, it interfactes well and you are intelligent. If it doesn't, you are are not. That is over simplified....but i am back to work.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 




What do you mean "we all think exactly alike". We DO. Of course, there are minor variances (this is the animal urges coming through, mostly). But that saying "people are the same where ever you go" is true.

This is also how behavioral evolution can occur. For your reading pleasure:

The 100 Monkey Effect



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

Most humans have not realized that they are not the mind.
You are aware of the mind running - you are no longer controlled by the mind because you know you are peace and calm - you are the emptiness that contains the mind. The mind/thought is an appearance, what you are does not appear or disappear.
However, the appearances appear but you are not not putting them there.
edit on 6-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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The peace and calm that you are is neutrality. Emptiness until form is formed (information), the form could be anger or cup.
All that appears disappears, except the emptiness that allows all to pass.
You are the emptiness forming.
The ocean waving.
edit on 6-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Not bad, arp. Not bad at all. But this does raise more questions than it answers.

Our physical modems are receiving information from a physical server.

Our physical brains (our receivers) are receiving info from where?
Also, why is it that the information suddenly becomes irrational when we dream?
edit on 8/6/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Energy is closer to potential/vibration rather than something solid/physical. This physical reality with physical bodies are more ordered (physical laws of the universe) than the vibration of potential (the more free flowing random information in the collective mind)...

So when you dream, you are less aware of the physical world/body and its "rules" and therefore you are closer to the free-flowing information of the collective mind which is random and not "bound" by physical laws...

Some scientists (not just the ones connected with "The New age"
), talk about this but they call it a "energy field of potential" or "the information realm", where there is potential energy in the so-called void...

Energy is the smallest "bit" (probably bad choice of word) of information there is, there is thermal energy, electric energy, the energy/wave itself is free flowing potential..
edit on 6-8-2012 by arpgme because: mistake in writing



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jiggerj
 




What do you mean "we all think exactly alike". We DO. Of course, there are minor variances (this is the animal urges coming through, mostly). But that saying "people are the same where ever you go" is true.

This is also how behavioral evolution can occur. For your reading pleasure:

The 100 Monkey Effect


LOL You do realize that this effect was debunked even in the link you posted. Interesting, though. I've never heard of it.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by jiggerj

Not bad, arp. Not bad at all. But this does raise more questions than it answers.

Our physical modems are receiving information from a physical server.

Our physical brains (our receivers) are receiving info from where?
Also, why is it that the information suddenly becomes irrational when we dream?
edit on 8/6/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Energy is closer to potential/vibration rather than something solid/physical. This physical reality with physical bodies are more ordered (physical laws of the universe) than the vibration of potential (the more free flowing random information in the collective mind)...

So when you dream, you are less aware of the physical world/body and its "rules" and therefore you are closer to the free-flowing information of the collective mind which is random and not "bound" by physical laws...

Some scientists (not just the ones connected with "The New age"
), talk about this but they call it a "energy field of potential" or "the information realm", where there is potential energy in the so-called void...

Energy is the smallest "bit" (probably bad choice of word) of information there is, there is thermal energy, electric energy, the energy/wave itself is free flowing potential..
edit on 6-8-2012 by arpgme because: mistake in writing


Ya see, this is where a lot of people would just accept this theory because 'some scientists' said so.
Energy is NOT conscious information. It takes energy to create the atoms, that create the physical material, that create machines (computers or brains), that can create conscious information. If we didn't need this process, then we wouldn't need computers. I could just send you information that would appear in mid air in front of you. Not gonna happen.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The mind is a system that has been overlaid over the true intelligence. The mind is a programme that is running you, until you understand what mind is, it will be your master.
edit on 6-8-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


This is actually really profound. Intelligence is what is, and the brain is merely attempting to access what is to deduce or interpret some logical sense of it, however, it can never truly do that fully which is why the mind becomes so chaotic and confused when trying to do so. Then, the mind presupposes that it is not the mind, that it is controller of the mind, and thus further confusion occurs. All that is happening, is just happening, apparently, and it is happening to no one. This is what neuropsychologists like me are realizing more and more. There is just a contiguous unified process unfolding, with no borders or intrinsic divisions.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by openlocks
reply to post by arpgme
 

Yes, and this has no qualities of worth attached to it. It just is. You tried to "logically" assume that existence concludes worth, because there is existence. I said "worth" is just a human construct, where as "existence" is not.


It is just semantics. When I said "That which exists is worthy of it existence because if it weren't, it wouldn't exist". The word "Worth" is actually being used in the sense of "have the ability or power to", that which is not "ABLE" to exist would not exist, and sense you are ABLE to exist as you are, you should just be who you are by basic existential logic, now once you start adding in, human concepts of "right" and "wrong" (social constructs) it gets a little messy...



See, now this makes much more sense. Instead of using such loaded words like "worth" and "value" when pointing towards what existentially is perceived, which totally devoids such an argument because "worth" and "value" are very abstract human constructs, you could easily just of said, "since you exist and existence is you and existence exists as it is, then it only makes sense to exist as you are".



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 





Since no two people think exactly alike, it would mean that, today, there are seven billion different frequencies. Doesn't this sound impossible to you as it does to me?


Yes, it does sound ridiculously implausible. It presupposes that thoughts are permanent entities floating around in space, and our brains are merely collection agencies working to gather all of these supposed objects. Of course, this is not at all how the brain works. The brain is constantly processing sensory data which is derived from our nervous system through either physical/external stimuli or internal/centralized stimuli. This data is then "communicated" throughout the entire nervous system and brain as electrochemical waves. Depending on the stimuli, insofar as the previous neural circuitry patterns already formed within the nervous system, there then forms new neural circuitry patterns which generates new perceptions of the world.

So in other words, thoughts are constructed through a complex process of multiple forms of stimuli affecting electrochemical transmissions throughout the nervous system which in turn establish neural circuitry patterns within the neuron structures of the brain, and these patterns formulate conscious and conceptually coherent thoughts. As you can see, there is literally an infinite amount of potential neural circuitry patterns, all depending on the particular stimuli presently occuring insofar as the previous conditioning/structure of the neural circuitry. So when two people think alike, first off it is never identically alike, and second this is mostly due to similar social/cultural conditioning, not because there are "thought entities floating around on different frequencies" gibberish, lol. All this frequency talk is New Agers short hand for this complex process, but it is really misleading because it insinuates all sorts of misconceptions.

Hope that helps some.
edit on 6-8-2012 by openlocks because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by jiggerj
 




What do you mean "we all think exactly alike". We DO. Of course, there are minor variances (this is the animal urges coming through, mostly). But that saying "people are the same where ever you go" is true.

This is also how behavioral evolution can occur. For your reading pleasure:

The 100 Monkey Effect


LOL You do realize that this effect was debunked even in the link you posted. Interesting, though. I've never heard of it.


"Debunk" is a relative term. It was "debunked" in as far as some mitigating circumjstances were identified that made the study possibly (key word POSSIBLY) be flawed. Doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.



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