Canadian Government set to collect all pennies starting 2013 for "recycling"

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posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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Hi everyone,

This is my first official thread on ATS and I have been looking forward to getting this information out since I made my first post.

I came across this information this past spring when I heard that Canada would be ending production of the Canadian 1 cent penny. At first I thought this was just a normal thing to do moving forward and progressing to a new way of payment until I started to look into the matter further.

www.actionplan.gc.ca...

The link above is the website for Canada's Economic Action plan which Stephen Harper has brought upon our great nation.

Basically it states that pennies will remain legal tender until 2013 but starting September of this year (2012), all businesses and banks will be ordered to trade in their pennies for other currency. Now some of you may be asking why is this a big deal? Well, it just so happens that any penny made before 1981 is made of approx 98% copper and is worth approx 3.2 cents in copper value.

For those who's brains didn't just click into overdrive hear me out:

The Canadian government is collecting ALL of the pennies in Canada to melt down and refine or "recycle" as they call it. This means that if they get all 35 billion (approx) pennies that have been minted in the last 100 years, they will more than triple their money when they sell it as scrap copper.

This is a clear form of fraud that has been openly admitted on their website !




After the Mint ceases distribution in the fall of 2012, businesses will be asked to return pennies through their financial institutions to the Mint for melting and recycling of the metal content. The Government will work closely with financial institutions to coordinate this penny redemption program. Charities are welcome to take advantage of the penny’s withdrawal to increase their fundraising through penny drives.


I urge all Canadians to start holding on to your pennies and collect them until they are no longer legal tender. You will make triple your investment back and prevent the government from digging their hand even deeper in the cookie jar.

Spread this around and make as many people aware as possible this is blasphemy!

Cheers,

Tyler




posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Tylerknight
 


Source


2000–2012 * 2.35 g 19.05 mm, round 94% steel, 1.5% nickel, 4.5% copper (as plating)
1997–1999 * 2.25 g 19.05 mm, round 98.4% zinc, 1.6% copper plating
1982–1996 2.5 g 19.1 mm, 12-sided 98% copper, 1.75% tin, 0.25% zinc
1980–1981 2.8 g 19.0 mm, round 98% copper, 1.75% tin, 0.25% zinc
1978–1979 3.24 g 19.05 mm, round 98% copper, 1.75% tin, 0.25% zinc
1942–1977 3.24 g 19.05 mm, round 98% copper, 0.5% tin, 1.5% zinc
1920–1941 3.24 g 19.05 mm, round 95.5% copper, 3% tin, 1.5% zinc
1876–1920 5.67 g 25.4 mm, round 95.5% copper, 3% tin, 1.5% zinc
1858–1859 4.54 g 25.4 mm, round 95% copper, 4% tin, 1% zinc


As you'll notice they haven't been made out of copper for a long time.

The government isn't making any money off of pennies.

~Tenth



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I notice in your posting they are from 95% copper to 98% copper...I don't know...but does that not mean they are basically made out of....Copper....or am i missing something here?



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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If you had read my post you would see I said pennies before 1981 are approx 98% copper and have a melt value of approx 3.2 Canadian cents. I have invested in pennies as to triple my investment, why would the government NOT be doing this on a much larger scale? Say 35 billion dollars turned into 105 billion? Sounds like a good investment to me.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by plube
 


Thanks for actually READING my post to get all of the information haha. The percentage of the copper content fluctuates over the years but technically anything before 1996 has more than a cent worth of copper melt value.

This is right under our noses they are cashing in HUGE off of this.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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I think many people are missing another point here.

As a retailer that has to charge 12% HST for a sales tax, we will have to round up our prices as rounding down makes us little guys lose even more money. Rounding up means our prices look higher as well. Not good.

Now there is one 'rumor' I've heard and that is when we round up, the balance is submitted to Govt. as it will be considered 'extra'. What this means I have no idea but if true, it would be just another tax grab. 'RUMOR'

The only way to stop the mathematical madness will be to put the HST at either 10% or 15%...guess which one I'm going with?

So is it for the copper or is it to raise the taxes again at point of sale? Both?

Little guys on the way out.

Peace


edit on 4-8-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by jude11
 


Very very good point there my friend! Its the same principle as the movie "Office Space" where a group of computer programmers design a program to round off fractions of cents and put them into an account. The government will be doing this on a much larger scale. If something cost $1.86 it will cost us $1.90 and where does that extra $0.04 go to? Well according to the Canadian Government that goes towards more tax breaks for it's citizens... yea right.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Considering the govt has been losing money every time they mint the things, it apparently costs more to make them than they're worth, then why can't the govt recoup some of their losses? I'd really like to see some of that money pay down the national debt.

I'm at a loss as to how it's apparently fraud.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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I have about $600.00 in American pennies..Total melt value is $1,333.36.

www.coinflation.com...



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by Tylerknight
 


Of course they are.. that's why most of us people with brains have been hoarding all of our 81 and back pennies forever now.

There are giant companies that do nothing but "buy" pennies and then sort them, preparing for the government to end their use. There are companies and people doing the same thing here in the states. I have a 110 lb jar of 81 and earlier pennies sitting in my room with me. There are companies here waiting for the US to discontinue the penny.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Huh? The government will be making a huuuge amount of money off of all the pennies they bring in pre 1982. There are still billions and billions of pre 82 pennies in circulation in both the US and Canada. So if the government collects them and melts them down they will make a huuge profit, just as the companies that do it and the people that do it will too. You can take your pay check get it cashed to you in pennies save all the pre 82 pennies out then turn your pay check back into bills and you have made a profit on your money.

That is why it is illegal to take large amounts of pennies across the border. It's true.
edit on 4-8-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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The Government tax the taxes...
.. always seem wrong to me

I live in Quebec and this is how the taxes are applied

5 % PST and 9.5 % TVQ ( Taxe de Vente du Quebec / Quebec sale tax )

We have 2 separate sales taxes and they charge the TVQ on top of TPS.


lets say i bought an item worth 10$ after txs it will cost me 11.50$...huh ? but the combined taxes amount is 14.5 % so its supposed to cost me 11.45$

Where that extra 5 cents come from ?

Taxing the tax :

10$ x 5% = 0.50 = 10.50$ and then they apply the 9.5% on the 10.50$

10.50$ x 9.5% = 1.00 = 11.50$


I let you do the maths for higher amounts like buying a car... it add up pretty fast

...

As for the penny issue

In the present economy, if my country can take 35 billions and turns it to 100, good for us...

But I DO have a problem being screwed in the process.


They will OBVIOUSLY round up the prices in OUR defavor, meaning higher prices.

An item currently sold for 9.96$ will now cost us 10$ and so on... add the taxing the tax issue and you have a lot of " tax breaks for citizens "


Crook...

.
edit on 4/8/2012 by B3lz3buth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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I don't think it's a big deal. The government might be doing it to raise some cash. I'm not sure why the OP has a problem with this? I think it's pretty smart taking something worth 1 cent and then selling it for 3 cents. I'm more inclined to worried about the hidden price increase passed on to the consumers. (a sentiment echoed by another poster). If you round every transaction up, in essence you've put a 1-4 cent price increase on everything. Millions of sales everyday, now with a built-in price increase. Sneaky.

As for the sale of coinage I can offer this anecdote: We had a similar thing happen back in the eighties. We purchased tons and tons of Mexican Pesos. They were made of Cupro-Nickel and the metal content was worth way more than the money. The exchange rate at the time was like 1200 pesos to the dollar. Mexico sold them on the U.S. market to get a quick injection of cash.

We also purchase from time to time damaged/foreign coins from major banks. They run coins through their high speed counting machines. The machines kick out the damaged and foreign coins. I'm not sure on all the rules, but I do know that the damaged/foreign coins are sorted once more and whatever is not cost effective to redeem ends up in my furnaces. They are sold to us as metal scrap.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by plube
 


Not since the 90's they haven't been. Which is the majority of pennies in circulation I would think.

There's just not that much OLDER pennies floating around anymore IMO. At least I hardly ever see any pennies dating to before the 80's.

And secondly, who do you think pays for the money to be printed? The Government ( your taxes), so them making that money back is just making you money in essence cause it will be alamagated into future budgets for expenses...

Not that they don't misuse those funds ( ie, borrow 95% of the money supply from private banks instead of the Bank Of Canada at 0% interest) already, but there you go.

The government making money is NEVER a bad thing, unless you aren't a citizen.

~Tenth

edit on 8/4/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I notice in your posting they are from 95% copper to 98% copper...I don't know...but does that not mean they are basically made out of....Copper....or am i missing something here?


Then did u notice that in 1997 they moved to zinc with copper plating?



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Wrong man. Just wrong.
There are TONS and TONS of older pennies floating around. I know I save them. Do you understand that between 1941 and 1974 there were around 100 BILLION copper pennies made? And they didn't stop making them in copper until 1982! I mean in 1974 they made 8.5 BILLION copper pennies. So yes there are TONS of copper pennies still out there.

Hell, I got a 1969 Canadian penny in change the other day and I live in the US.
edit on 4-8-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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What can we do with old pennies ?
i have a old collection from my young age


got some old american pennies to



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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The only people that are going to be hurt by this are charities imo. I can't stand pennies. They go right into whatever box is next to the till. I have to pay 4 cents more for a purchase and not get pennies? I'm in for that.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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I don't know though...... It might be worth more to just keep them as pennies and not melt them down, from a collector standpoint. A whole lot will be destroyed, making the pennies kept worth more.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by Foundryman
 


The coins that cost more than a cent to make are the pre 1981 coins, which at that time they did not cost that much to make. Since copper has gone up in price they have shifted to a different minting process which another poster brought to light, which is copper-plated zinc. They don't cost 3.2 cents to make like the copper ones. The government didn't pay triple the cost of the penny to make them at the time of minting, only now has copper gone up that high and made it worthwhile for them to cash in on it. For those who say what is wrong with that and why does the OP have a problem with that? I have a problem with it because it is illegal for us to do that as citizens so why does the government of Canada have the go ahead to melt down currency to make a 3 time profit. Yes our tax money (that doesn't really exist to begin with) paid for those coins to be produced, but do you think for one second that the money generated by melting and selling the copper will go into our infrastructure? It will go to whoever came up with the idea of recalling the penny.





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