Lucifer and the Masonic Lie of Theosophy

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnigmaticDill

 

How about, instead of my way or the highway, we embrace each other despite our religious differences?

Nah. Where's the fun and power in that? Respect for others is such a quaint, antiquated notion.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
Did Christ not teach acceptance? Did he not teach his disciples to love one another?

Christians very often do not act like Christ.

And quite often are selectively Christian. Certainly rare in this forum is one who takes to heart "Judge not lest ye be judged".

Fitz

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The quote you posted is from a Brother of the Co-Masonic tradition, I accept her as a Freemason but the majority of Masons here wouldn't. I also happen to agree with her opinion but I fail to understand why you maintain that Christianity is opposed to Theurgical practice. What is Christian Baptism but a theurgical ritual cleansing one of sin in an act of sympathetic magic or Holy Communion where wine and bread are taken in remembrance of His sacrifice of blood and body?

edit on 6-8-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

In all cases with Christianity, the symbolism of ritual is there to show our understanding of the central story as fulfilled by Christ. The entire story is the story of Christ fulfilling the law for us. As a reflection of the truth in the symbols, Christ died FOR us. God, once again, gives us everything. Our entire history as a planet is an education to flip our switch from pride to humility. The Mystery Schools are an attempt to take what God provided and make it a selfish ambition of manipulation of the law for gain. They are told that this manipulation will make the LIKE God.

The symbol you mention of baptism represents our symbolic washing of the old sin and shame from our temple. It ultimately represents a root meaning. In all cases with the mysteries and religion in general, the symbols have a root meaning. You will find that root meaning outlined in the Bible. Baptism is our immersion into the water of the material world, with the ultimate goal of rising from the error to the spirit. It's a school. The point of the school is the same as it is for Harry Potter. Overcome.

The only way to be like God is to take his name. The name is the character. Taking on the name of Christ requires that we mirror his life by giving instead of taking. The cross was the pagan symbol of the mystery schools used to crucify God. God gave this back to man in humility. He demonstrated his love for us while we were yet sinners. He came as a kinsman to redeem us from sin and death, but not before showing us His law fulfilled in love--even for His own enemies.

If you can simply know the story from beginning to end, God is on both sides welcoming us to his kingdom. We MUST learn the law of love and replace the nature of a thief with that of faith and hope. The temple mankind is trying to build here will crumble. The promise of our inheritance is for this:

Deuteronomy 6

10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.


Do you see what our inheritance is? It is not Earth, but another Earth where government is of the Lord and the cities are built in perfection. It goes on to then show you how to keep yourself with God in truth.


13 Fear the Lord your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the Lord your God , who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. 16 Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah. 17 Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you. 18 Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors, 19 thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the Lord said.

This is the instructions for those coming OUT of Egypt. When we are released into the universe as new creations to receive our inheritance, this book will be our hitchhiker's guide to that new existence. The lives we lived will be our reflecting point to keep us in appreciation of what God has done. If we steal it away now, that becomes our reward.

"Christians"--"Freemasons"! PLEASE!!

You are all actually humans whether you like it or not. We are all less than perfect WHETHER YOU LIKE THAT OR NOT!

the irony of this whole thread isthat the collective format of both the doctrines of freemasonry and christianity in the mystic sense have the same source.

both Messianic
both Abrahmaic
both both rooted in Ishmaelism

It is necessary to define TERMS--"Sun" and "Son" in context of "Christianity" for this discussion--because theres an intentional skism in these words. Either way, the sweeping generalizations need to stop if this thread is to amount to more than a circle jerk.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
When my father was in the Masons, he refused to have his students march a parade on Sunday. For that, he was fired from the school by request of the Masons. God was in this. My father quit the Masons and found his calling in life in a school and community that honored God above mankind.

OK, now I understand your hatred for masons. Your Dad was a Satanic devil worshiper while you were growing up and you didn't like it. Did he kill and eat people too?

He was in it for one year. In that time, he easily witnessed what you describe. Coming from a Christian upbringing, my father quickly realized the truth by comparison. This was in 1963 and I was born in 1967. My sister was on the scene at this time but very small. She is the first child of four.

My father's brother wrote the hymn, Jesus is Lord of All, and was the editor for the last four Baptist Hymnals. These words are a reflection of my Father's Father and his Christian upbringing.

All of us will follow these words when Christ appears. Revelation 1:7 describes the scene.

1 Jesus is Savior and Lord of my life,
My hope, my glory, my all;
Wonderful Master in joy and in strife,
On Him, you too, may call.

Chorus:
Jesus is Lord of all,
Jesus is Lord of all;
Lord of my thoughts and my service each day,
Jesus is Lord of all.

2 Blessed Redeemer, all glorious King,
Worthy of reverence I pay;
Tribute and praises I joyfully bring
To Him, the Life, the Way.[Chorus]

3 Will you surrender your all to Him now?
Follow His will and obey,
Crown Him as Sovereign, before His throne bow;
Give Him your heart today.[Chorus]

LINK

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

And quite often are selectively Christian. Certainly rare in this forum is one who takes to heart "Judge not lest ye be judged".

Fitz

This can be true, but if it is true on my account, please show it by quoting me. The object presenting a subject can never be a judge. The subject is the judge. If it's truth, it presents a reflection we can see ourselves by. If it's not truth, the lie would stand out clearly. If I have judged anyone, point out the words and quote me. What you will find is a subject presented by context. Truth judges rightly. Bias judges by incredulity and prejudice. I have not demonstrated this in the least.

I hang my hat on scripture. You can judge me if you like, but you would be better off judging the word of God. I am only the object delivering the subject that we can all read for ourselves.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Oddly enough, everything isn't all about you.

Just thought you should have the advantage of clarification in case you weren't aware

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Oddly enough, everything isn't all about you.

Just thought you should have the advantage of clarification in case you weren't aware

Fitz

I found your comment in my list of replies to me so I answered it by my perspective.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So your dad told you that he witnessed and was part of satanic worship in his one year as a mason?
He sure must have jumped up the ranks quickly. Some of the lowly ATS masons have been involved for over 10 years and have yet to encounter the dark side of masonry. Is it possible that your father was full of something more than the holy spirit?

If he is still alive, I would love the opportunity to speak with him about the satanic worship he witnessed.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So your dad told you that he witnessed and was part of satanic worship in his one year as a mason?
He sure must have jumped up the ranks quickly. Some of the lowly ATS masons have been involved for over 10 years and have yet to encounter the dark side of masonry. Is it possible that your father was full of something more than the holy spirit?

If he is still alive, I would love the opportunity to speak with him about the satanic worship he witnessed.

Not so much satanic worship but a lack of Christlike behavior. I was not aware of the Mason experience until later. Our mother mentioned it in passing and I asked her about it again just a few years ago. He passed away in 1989. Someone we knew was a Mason. He was a drunk and abused his wife.

By the dark side of Masonry, you are referring to the overall nature of ritual magic. It can only lead the spirit two directions. The same is true for any belief system. A spirit is a module of consciousness. Building a catalog of these programmed routines makes us who we are. The goal would be to program our nature and character with the set of modules that are applied by truth. Each verse in the Bible is a set of run-time routines that have the end goal of Holy Consciousness. God offers us this Holy Spirit when we allow Him to develop our faith. Faith is the openness to the correct Spirit. Which Spirit does a Mason follow? There are two and they are twins. Only one is the correct reflection. Enlightenment can happen in two directions.

The Word is what a programmer uses to program the outcomes of the system. The correct Bios is also necessary. A bios would be the application of law on the system.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So your dad told you that he witnessed and was part of satanic worship in his one year as a mason?
He sure must have jumped up the ranks quickly. Some of the lowly ATS masons have been involved for over 10 years and have yet to encounter the dark side of masonry. Is it possible that your father was full of something more than the holy spirit?

If he is still alive, I would love the opportunity to speak with him about the satanic worship he witnessed.

Not so much satanic worship but a lack of Christlike behavior. I was not aware of the Mason experience until later. Our mother mentioned it in passing and I asked her about it again just a few years ago. He passed away in 1989. Someone we knew was a Mason. He was a drunk and abused his wife.

By the dark side of Masonry, you are referring to the overall nature of ritual magic. It can only lead the spirit two directions. The same is true for any belief system. A spirit is a module of consciousness. Building a catalog of these programmed routines makes us who we are. The goal would be to program our nature and character with the set of modules that are applied by truth. Each verse in the Bible is a set of run-time routines that have the end goal of Holy Consciousness. God offers us this Holy Spirit when we allow Him to develop our faith. Faith is the openness to the correct Spirit. Which Spirit does a Mason follow? There are two and they are twins. Only one is the correct reflection. Enlightenment can happen in two directions.

The Word is what a programmer uses to program the outcomes of the system. The correct Bios is also necessary. A bios would be the application of law on the system.

edit on 6-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

My take is that speculative freemasonry goes 100% against what the Bible recommends. Or that the Bible IS freemasonry. Either way--it seems to be out of touch with the Gospels.

I could be wrong

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So your dad told you that he witnessed and was part of satanic worship in his one year as a mason?
He sure must have jumped up the ranks quickly. Some of the lowly ATS masons have been involved for over 10 years and have yet to encounter the dark side of masonry. Is it possible that your father was full of something more than the holy spirit?

If he is still alive, I would love the opportunity to speak with him about the satanic worship he witnessed.

Not so much satanic worship but a lack of Christlike behavior.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Someone we knew was a Mason. He was a drunk and abused his wife.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
By the dark side of Masonry, you are referring to the overall nature of ritual magic. It can only lead the spirit two directions. The same is true for any belief system.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Originally posted by EnochWasRightWhich Spirit does a Mason follow? There are two and they are twins.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Fitz

Originally posted by rainbowbear

My take is that speculative freemasonry goes 100% against what the Bible recommends.

How so? I'm dying to know. That plus I'd like to know the basis for your rationale

Originally posted by rainbowbear
Or that the Bible IS freemasonry. Either way--it seems to be out of touch with the Gospels.

Uh.....mayhap as you could explain how the Bible and the Gospels are different? Plus how is the Bible relevant to non-Christians/Jews?

Originally posted by rainbowbear
I could be wrong

I know which way I'm betting on that one

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So your dad told you that he witnessed and was part of satanic worship in his one year as a mason?
He sure must have jumped up the ranks quickly. Some of the lowly ATS masons have been involved for over 10 years and have yet to encounter the dark side of masonry. Is it possible that your father was full of something more than the holy spirit?

If he is still alive, I would love the opportunity to speak with him about the satanic worship he witnessed.

Not so much satanic worship but a lack of Christlike behavior.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Someone we knew was a Mason. He was a drunk and abused his wife.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
By the dark side of Masonry, you are referring to the overall nature of ritual magic. It can only lead the spirit two directions. The same is true for any belief system.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Originally posted by EnochWasRightWhich Spirit does a Mason follow? There are two and they are twins.

Well goodness! There's something uniquely Masonic!

Fitz

Great observation, but this only confirms my main thesis. It's not about what we can do, but what has been done for us. Deference is needed from us to God, not the other way around.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Well, not that you will listen to me as your mind is already made up and your Bible blinders are firmly in tact, but Masonry is made up of regular men. Men like you meet every day. There is a chance that some of the men your dad met, he didn't like. For him to only be involved for one year, it doesn't sound like he gave it much of a chance. In that year, you have to do a lot of study and almost all of it is away from the lodge. So if you are a fast burner, you can be a master mason in 6 months, and then possibly, if you are really into it, you may go to 6 meetings. More if there are degrees. But what my point is, is that there is no way your dad experienced anything vastly different than most people do. And most people have never heard of Satan or Lucifer being mentioned in any masonic ritual.

So you are wrong. Either lying intentionally, or just out of ignorance. I am sorry your dad is not around to tell his side of things.

Hate out of ignorance is just stupid.

Threads like this reinfornce my belief that the Council of Nicea did more to harm Christianity than almost anything since.

Why does Christianity, the 'mainstream' of it, seems so hellbent on making everyone who seeks Christ in their own way conforming to their set system of beliefs? Isn't the relation between the individual and the Divine the one that counts... how and what you believe and your actions... seeking the true spirit and will of God... doing the hard work of research, introversion, and knowledge seeking?

Why am I expected to sit in a pew twice and week and be spoon-fed the same mind numbing lessons from the same flawed book my forefathers did, when our experiences are vastly different?

If I follow the teaching of Christ, if I treat my fellow man with love and respect as Christ taught, and if I hold myself up to those same principles while still practicing Freemasonry... while, remarkably, still holding true to the teaching of Christ and not blindly following a possibly imperfect version of the Bible... what problem does that hold for Christianity?

Oh, that's right. I won't blindly follow what I am told, not blindly tithe to fill coffers.

I will question. I will test. I will seek and find the answers that I need. And my faith will be stronger and more meaningful than a man who has spent every Sunday morning in a church only to lose himself thinking of his noon meal and what NFL teams are playing when.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Great observation, but this only confirms my main thesis. It's not about what we can do, but what has been done for us. Deference is needed from us to God, not the other way around.

The one thing that never ceases to amaze me about some Christians is the fact that so many truly revel in their own ignorance. Some wear it as a badge of pride and actually use their own ignorance to speak to others in an insulting and degrading manner.

This greatly boggles the mind.

I do not say this about all Christians however.
I have met many fine Christian men who treated me with respect.
Of course, I didn't know that these men were faithful to this religion initially.
I did eventually learned this in passing from a 3rd party, because, unlike those who seek to convert others through prideful ignorance, these men only sought to engage and embrace another's humanity.

Which one are you Enoch?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Deference is needed from us to God, not the other way around.

Uh huh.......and what unique aspect of Masons and Freemasonry have made you believe that the aforementioned believe the latter rather than the former? What part of 'Masonry is an adjunct to your faith' don't you get?

Fitz

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Again, where specifically in the ritual does this take place? Where is the mention of your pal Lucifer that I do not believe in?

If you are lower than 32, you cannot rise above apart from figuring it out yourself.

Dang. Why do us Knights Templar always get the short end of the stick?

Do I have to join the Scottish Rite to get all the good info?

Originally posted by KawRider9

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Again, where specifically in the ritual does this take place? Where is the mention of your pal Lucifer that I do not believe in?

If you are lower than 32, you cannot rise above apart from figuring it out yourself.

Dang. Why do us Knights Templar always get the short end of the stick?

Do I have to join the Scottish Rite to get all the good info?

silly person. Any good anti-mason knows there is only evil blood sucking devil worshiping in the Scottish Rite. You Yorkies are just a bunch of good ole' boys.

Originally posted by rainbowbear
"Christians"--"Freemasons"! PLEASE!!

I was kind of expecting you to yell "Lend me your ears".

Originally posted by rainbowbear
You are all actually humans whether you like it or not. We are all less than perfect WHETHER YOU LIKE THAT OR NOT!

I have never argued against that.

Originally posted by rainbowbear
Either way, the sweeping generalizations need to stop if this thread is to amount to more than a circle jerk.

reply to post by network dude

That's why us dual members kick ass.