Lucifer and the Masonic Lie of Theosophy

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posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 
What's your issue with Freemasonry?


My Issue with Freemason is I love them but don't know where to find them so I can thank them for my welcome mat herein in the states.
Also... Nobody... and I mean nobody!... likes Pinocchio here at ATS! Why'o'Why???

Am I not, according the profile pic my own, the most handsomest ever? Even my colors are cool!

WARNING: "Wise Up ATSians Or Pinocchio Will No Longer ATS You!"




posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Pinocchio

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 
What's your issue with Freemasonry?


My Issue with Freemason is I love them but don't know where to find them so I can thank them for my welcome mat herein in the states.
Also... Nobody... and I mean nobody!... likes Pinocchio here at ATS! Why'o'Why???

Am I not, according the profile pic my own, the most handsomest ever? Even my colors are cool!

WARNING: "Wise Up ATSians Or Pinocchio Will No Longer ATS You!"



I can tell you straight up what my problem with you is and maybe shed some light on why nobody likes Pinoccchio on here at ATS and that is your version of Pinocchio... instead of having the relaxing Disney version of Pinocchio in your avatar you have the scary 1800's faded strange different countries Santa Clause art deco version of the boy with the big nose, other then that your good to go.....Lol.

But back on topic i think the OP is just trying to show the difference in his opinion between the theological aspect of Masonic Theosophy vs the Bibles version of it and then the topic took turns of spiritual debates.



edit on 5-8-2012 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by Pinocchio
 


I'll tell you why I don't like you, Pinnochio.

You are a self proclaimed White Power advocate.

Based on that alone, I have no reason to like you.

Also, instead of making concise points, you mumble this garbled crap and expect the rest of us English speaking folks to understand WTF you're talking about.

Grow up.
edit on 5-8-2012 by W3RLIED2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Pinocchio

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 
What's your issue with Freemasonry?


My Issue with Freemason is I love them but don't know where to find them so I can thank them for my welcome mat herein in the states.
Also... Nobody... and I mean nobody!... likes Pinocchio here at ATS! Why'o'Why???

Am I not, according the profile pic my own, the most handsomest ever? Even my colors are cool!

WARNING: "Wise Up ATSians Or Pinocchio Will No Longer ATS You!"


I've wondered why there's been no double speak yet. Pinocchio is a puppet on a string that says, Why o Why can't I (Cry). It's about a boy wanting to "Be good" and become a real boy. The esoteric meaning of the story is tied directly to the Mystery Schools. The creator of the story, Lorenzini, was a Freemason and disciple of the revolutionary Mazzini.

In the mystery schools, the "Profane" are those who do not know. They are in the outer court. In the inner court, you have the initiate that knows. To be a real boy, a Mason must become illuminated. The Masons symbolize this transition from profane to adept with the allegory of the Rough and Perfect Ashlar. While this sounds good, the work of rising to God is not our work. The work belongs to God through us. We find the mirror to this in the Bible.

Ephesians 2

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

This is a really good illustration, because we can clearly see the lie outlined by the ritual. The lie is the same as it was in the Garden. If we would do this, then the other will happen for you. The lie is mirrored from the actual truth. It's never about what we do, but what is done for us. We do nothing in this world other than think and move. The rest is done for us. The thinking and moving part is what God uses around the rest to develop our faith in Him. He is Lord, not us.

The Masons make this out to be a puppet on a string. Nothing is further from the truth. We have the choice to act by our own will to take or act according to the will to give. God gives and we repeat this forward. Positive is created in the process and no negative. When we take, a debt is created. Compare this to smoking. If you smoke, you get cancer. Take a reward and you suffer the debt. Reverse this. Suffer in the gym and your health improves. Suffering will happen on either side. The trick is to follow the law forward for reward to be produced as the will to give is paid forward.

“‘In speculative Freemasonry, a rough ashlar is an allegory to the uninitiated Freemason prior to his discovering enlightenment. A Perfect Ashlar is an allegory to a Freemason who, through Masonic education, works to achieve an upstanding life and diligently strives to obtain enlightenment. In the Fellowcraft Degree, we see the use of the Rough and Perfect Ashlars. The lesson to be learned is that by means of education and the acquirement of knowledge, a man improves the state of his spiritual and moral being. Like man, each Rough Ashlar begins as an imperfect stone. With education, cultivation and brotherly love, man is shaped into a being which has been tried by the square of virtue and encircled by the compasses of his boundaries, given to us by our Creator.”

Not a bad goal to have, but the question is not what we can do for ourselves. The question is, "Who is to be master, that's all."

-----
The riddle of Humpty Dumpty points this out. In the Alice Stories, Humpty reveals the truth.

`And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'


`I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.


Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant, "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"


`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.


`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.


`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'


`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'


Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again.


`They've a temper, some of them -- particularly verbs, they're the proudest -- adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs -- however, I can manage the whole of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'
-----
Who is to be master? God. Otherwise, it's impenetrable. Two things cannot occupy the same space. Good and Evil must be separated.
edit on 5-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Are you sure you want me to say what you already know?


I would not ask if I did not want you to answer.


The ritual is accompanied by the literature.


Stop changing the goal posts. You said it happens in the ritual, I asked where specifically. If you want to admit you fabricated this then admit it now, otherwise everyone can see how you rather poorly avoid answering direct questions with direct answers.


If you are lower than 32, you cannot rise above apart from figuring it out yourself.


What is the relevance of the Scottish Rite for non-Scottish Rite Masons?



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by King Seesar

Originally posted by Pinocchio

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 
What's your issue with Freemasonry?


My Issue with Freemason is I love them but don't know where to find them so I can thank them for my welcome mat herein in the states.
Also... Nobody... and I mean nobody!... likes Pinocchio here at ATS! Why'o'Why???

Am I not, according the profile pic my own, the most handsomest ever? Even my colors are cool!

WARNING: "Wise Up ATSians Or Pinocchio Will No Longer ATS You!"



I can tell you straight up what my problem with you is and maybe shed some light on why nobody likes Pinoccchio on here at ATS and that is your version of Pinocchio... instead of having the relaxing Disney version of Pinocchio in your avatar you have the scary 1800's faded strange different countries Santa Clause art deco version of the boy with the big nose, other then that your good to go.....Lol.

But back on topic i think the OP is just trying to show the difference in his opinion between the theological aspect of Masonic Theosophy vs the Bibles version of it and then the topic took turns of spiritual debates.



edit on 5-8-2012 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)


I watched this movie with my school class at the end of this year. The symbolism was evident. The rebel Pinocchio, from the era it was created, was what the Freemason write intended. The remake of the movie calmed him down a bit. He was writing from his political and spiritual impressions of the world at the time. It was also a reflection of his version of the mystery school story. This is evident from the key symbols in the story. But, then again, what Movie is not a reflection of this story. It's woven into our hearts. The best literature of our history comes from the cognitive dissonance produced from residing in a place that is out of context with the place our soul remembers.

In the end, we're studying the same thing. The difference come with perspective to see that giving and taking is the key to seeing the reverse of the image. Simply knowing that there is a choice to make between seeing the story on the correct side of truth should relieve the average Mason. It's evident that God loves us all enough to show us a better way.



edit on 5-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I gave one example in this post. LINK

The thing you might not readily see is what I point out. With God, it's not about what we have done. It's about what is done for us. The point then becomes what we do for others as a reflection of this. I am sure there are many Masons who realize this fundamental fact.

The problem in all of this is not the facts of truth, but the entity we place our faith in. Either way, our faith is built on a foundation. There are two. One is immortal and temporal, the other Eternal and unchanging.



edit on 5-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I gave one example in this post. LINK


Uh, no you did not. You said it takes place in the ritual, BE SPECIFIC. In what degree? What are the words or symbols used to do what you claimed?


The thing you might not readily see is what I point out.


You point nothing out. You proselytize, quote endless amounts of scripture, evasively avoid answering questions and fabricate anecdotes to support your untenable positions.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Pinocchio
 
I have enjoyed many of your posts, I hadn't seen any of your posts that implied you held supremicist beliefs, and would be dissappointed if you had. Your presence proves that nonsense is better than no sense at all.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I gave one example in this post. LINK


Uh, no you did not. You said it takes place in the ritual, BE SPECIFIC. In what degree? What are the words or symbols used to do what you claimed?


The thing you might not readily see is what I point out.


You point nothing out. You proselytize, quote endless amounts of scripture, evasively avoid answering questions and fabricate anecdotes to support your untenable positions.


I will let a Freemason do the talking for me. The rest of this forum thread I link covers the subject.



" Iamblichus, the Alexandrian philosopher, in writing of the Mysteries, says: “Using the reason alone Man can never come to any true realization of what he is in himself; that is, he can never understand by the mind alone that he is an eternal spiritual entity, a brilliant star shining by the light of its own essence.” Iamblichus makes it quite clear that “not by discursive reasoning or through philosophical thinking alone does one come into fellowship with the gods. It is through the awakening of the higher spiritual powers by means of the rites of theurgy that the consummation of the long ages is effected.”

Now “theurgy” is simply another name for magic—the magic of the Masonic ritual, let us say, the modern vehicle of the Ancient Mysteries through which the Seeker for the Light may find reality. This great purpose is beautifully stated by Bro. Wilmshurst. “The union of the personal soul with its divine principle—Masonry has no other objective than this,” says Bro. Wilmshurst. “All other matters of interest connected with it are but details subsidiary to this supreme achievement.”

Freemasonry is ceremonial magic—a mystical system established in the dim ages of the past by those spiritual teachers who were the guides of our infant humanity, and which remains today the chalice of the wisdom, unchanged in its inner potency, ever available to all who seek. The neophyte entering a Masonic lodge has this wonderful opportunity to find the ancient path, but that “door which gives upon the Infinite” will open only for the candidate whose deepest longing is for spiritual understanding."

By The Very Ills Brother Edith F. Armour 33°


The entire Freemason Craft is just what it says, a craft. The comparisons to Wicca and ritual magic are parallel. They all originate with the Pagan Mystery School Religion. Theurgy is THE word to describe what is going on.

Here is the Freemason site that I read this quote from: LINK I could provide hudrets o others if you like from all manner of Freemason sites that outline the same thing. I have listened to podcasts from Freemason Lodges outlining the same thing. Where do you think I got all my information on the mystery schools?



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by Pinocchio
 
I have enjoyed many of your posts, I hadn't seen any of your posts that implied you held supremicist beliefs, and would be dissappointed if you had. Your presence proves that nonsense is better than no sense at all.


I really enjoy posts like his. I can search the keywords he uses to find hundreds of hundrets o mason comments found at the end of articles. Eventually, I can then find the meaning of the doublespeak. It takes time, but can easily be done. This is the way I found the meaning of the Orphan Annie Cartoon found here: LINK
edit on 5-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by King Seesar
 


LOL... TY for the info...

Hold up! ???
Freemason Theosophy... yes. I'm not dabbling in it, although I see why it is necessary.
BUT! But "Biblical Freemasonic Literature" ??? What Bible????



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


I can c why my rantings make you swallow your spit alot. And remind you of how idiots like yourself don't really know much at alll... espescially when it comes from Pinocchio. TY for making it clear.
edit on 5-8-2012 by Pinocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by no1smootha
 


Thank You...
What he meant was that... at some point I replied a strong belief.
It had to do with my being Catholic. When I found out what Olden Popes agendas were... I was astounded.
Although it never came to full fruition... I fell in love with the idea and had/haves hopes ofseeing it done.

He was on a mission to Unify the entire Europe... all the families, clans, tribes, nations... and make them one happy family. That iswhat made him believe I was prowhitepower. I am in a way... but not in the way that stirs hatred for other races.

I am Latino... my mum is spanish white woman... my father is slave descedant black man. I am mulatto!
Thus... because my mum raised me... I owe her and her heritage more than others. But because I was raised Catholic... I learned of the Pope his true mission and have ever since delighted in seeing it come true in my lifetime.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 

Well, not every Mason is a Christian so of course some don't believe in Hell.

reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 

Exactly what ritual in Freemasonry has perverted the Bible?


Hell is physical location in the spirit

Isn't this a contradiction?

reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 

Well, this is a vague, generalization. Provide an actual example.

reply to post by SubAce
 

The soul is immortal and there are plenty of examples in the Bible to show that. Or are you going to argue that our time in Heaven or Hell is only temporary?

reply to post by EnochWasRight
 

Are you incapable of posting where in our rituals do we say anything you have asserted? If you know all that you say, you should be able to say in what degree and give the verbiage.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 
The quote you posted is from a Brother of the Co-Masonic tradition, I accept her as a Freemason but the majority of Masons here wouldn't. I also happen to agree with her opinion but I fail to understand why you maintain that Christianity is opposed to Theurgical practice. What is Christian Baptism but a theurgical ritual cleansing one of sin in an act of sympathetic magic or Holy Communion where wine and bread are taken in remembrance of His sacrifice of blood and body?
edit on 6-8-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by no1smootha
 


Whilst I am not a Freemason... I have read that in the accepted form of "Chamber Of Reflection" as it pertains to the rites of Freemasonry that allow it... there is present in that ritual: a) Water synonymous to/with Baptism...
b) Sulpur synonymous to/with Communion... c) Salt synonymous to/with Confirmation...

Three Catholic Traditions that constitute the coming of an initiate in unto the full ministry of Christ.
Whilst in Freemasonry (my allegory) it constitutes the coming of the initiate in unto the three most dire and perilous forms of transmutation... Which result in "Experience".

The order in which I placed them is exact.

Baptism... hmm... still a mystery I've yet to learn.
Sulphur/Communion explains the torment and abuse that Christ endured. Thus it is like a thing that burns... Purified by pain.
Salt/Confirmation is the end result... it is the risen Christ... a new and reborn master. Succession!
edit on 6-8-2012 by Pinocchio because: typo



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by King Seesar
 


Yeah, you made me think a little bit about this. That's good.



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
When my father was in the Masons, he refused to have his students march a parade on Sunday. For that, he was fired from the school by request of the Masons. God was in this. My father quit the Masons and found his calling in life in a school and community that honored God above mankind.


OK, now I understand your hatred for masons. Your Dad was a Satanic devil worshiper while you were growing up and you didn't like it. Did he kill and eat people too?



posted on Aug, 6 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I will let a Freemason do the talking for me. The rest of this forum thread I link covers the subject.


Sorry, nothing about Lucifer being mentioned as 'the true good guy' in the ritual there. Maybe you can try again?

And while you are at it maybe you can explain how I can think Lucifer is 'the true good guy' when unlike you I do not even believe in Lucifer.

I have only been asking you this for 6 pages.






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