Originally posted by EnochWasRight
You and I have had this conversation before. Jesus said, "you must be born again." In other words, baptism is our immersion into the water to
cleanse the temple. It's an opportunity we are given. If we refuse the water, fire cleanses the temple. Fire melts our hearts and reshapes them by
trials. I choose to put the fire out with water. We each light the fire we burn by. I don't question God's judgement on this. A soul keeps
living until the one that can destroy it says, "ENOUGH!" The final judgment will come for all of us. A final judgment implies others before. God
gives life and he can take it. He has the right. He also is holy and perfect, expecting nothing less of us that this. Jesus is offered as our
sacrifice. Accepting this requires repentance from our own prideful nature. If we choose to retain it, we light the fire we burn by.
We don't know why some people die young or suffer indignity. We will know eventually, but we are merely the witness at this point. No need to
become the accused.
You seem to be knowledgeable and you must be commended for seeing certain things. If it may be possible it would be nice to try and enlighten you on
certain things from which you are obviously lacking in knowledge of.
The being "born again" to which Jesus referred when talking to Nicodemus was not water baptism. Water baptism is necessary, and all who look upon
Jesus for salvation need to be baptized in water, but not all are baptized with holy spirit.
When Jesus went to John to be baptized he was completely submerged in water, this was symbolic of his dying to his former course of life, and being
raised out of the water is his new life dedicated to do Jehovah, his Father's will. After the water baptism, Jehovah God himself sent holy spirit
upon his son, his firstborn creation, who emptied his previous spirit life in heaven to become a man, in the form of a dove it descended and baptized
Jesus. This is the baptized of holy spirit and it comes after water baptism.
Nicodemus didn't understand the spiritual things. In order to see God's kingdom, or to make up a part of it one needed to be born again in holy
spirit. In what way? When one is truly born again, the holy spirit that anoints that one implants a seed, a new creature within the person, and
through the quickening it changes that persons thoughts and aspirations and desires. He is adopted as a spirit son of God, and is justified in the
blood of Jesus and legally established on the basis of mercy worthy of entrance in heaven, where God's kingdom is.
A person that is born again can only see now partially who Jehovah and his son Jesus are, because we as humans cannot perceive spirit, and they are
not flesh and blood but are spirit. But when we are changed after death to be like them then we will see them as they are, for we who have been born
again and adopted as spirit sons of God, will see him as he is for then we will be like him:
(1 Corinthians 13:12) . . .For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. . . .
(1 Corinthians 15:29) . . .Otherwise, what will they do who are being baptized for the purpose of [being] dead ones? . . .
(1 Corinthians 15:50) . . .However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom. . .
(1 Corinthians 15:52, 53) . . .For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this which
is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.
(Romans 8:15) . . .For YOU did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we
cry out: “Abba, Father!”
Jesus was not telling Nicodemus that everyone would need to be born again, rather he was saying, in order to enter into the kingdom in heaven one must
be born again.
Let me give you an example so you may understand it more clearly. Let us say there is a certain town with a prestigious college. Now one of the
requirements to enter it is that you have to be a son of a citizen of the town. You see an outsiders cannot gain admittance. They are not
But let us say a man, a citizen of the town adopts a child. The child being the adopted son of this man now qualifies to be admitted.
Thus is it with God's kingdom. You cannot enter into it (it is heavenly, and you must be baptized to die and be raised an immortal spirit being in
the form of God and Jesus) unless you are "born again," anointed with holy spirit, and adopted as spirit children of God.
(Romans 9:16) . . .So, then, it depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.