Lucifer and the Masonic Lie of Theosophy

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


Well, since I am not a Christian I guess I am doing it wrong.



How about, instead of my way or the highway, we embrace each other despite our religious differences?

Did Christ not teach acceptance? Did he not teach his disciples to love one another?

Christians very often do not act like Christ.

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


Hell is physical location in the spirit, hence it is not a physical location, but your own conscience and guilty (negative) feelings. I may draw your attention to the fact that children at birth and early childhood do not harbour negative feelings of guilt until circumstances and environment bring those into existence. Please make the next step to spiritually elaborate on this thought.

Thats right cause God does not accept anything but righteousness truly,

It shouldnt and it cant be any other way. Thats why the Bible talks about the separation between people.

I can see im dumb blind and naked. Thats why I continue to turn away from the old man, to become a new creature, not fashioned by the ways of the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Hows that for illumination.

starseedflower

Why is that its not a physical location, is that what you call this, physical,

Sheol, is a place where you spirit body resides, the grave the pit, so you cant be somewhere that you can see and experience is what your saying, in other words there is no hell.

So that means your everywhere and everything at any given time? Thats where God shines through that deception.

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


You lost me.

Can you provide any examples of how Masonry goes against the bible aside from out of place bible quotes?

reply to post by W3RLIED2


It goes against it in every possible facet, honestly if your doing anything or following anything thats not the Bible or Jesus, your against it. And this is coming from someone who was sucked into alot of the New Age teachings and philosophies, the reason I saw through it is because of experience, and because God is the great teacher, you can never give up the seeking for the truth.

Jesus says if your not with me your against me,

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


Where does he say that?

And it matters little to me. Like I said, I'm not Christian.

I respect your faith. Why must you push yours upon me?

reply to post by EnigmaticDill


If somebody seriously practises enough meditation and lucid dreaming, like many spiritual gifted (Jesus, the Druids, Buddha, Tibetan, Yogi, Sufi, Alchemists and Shaman Masters and my beloved mother included) have done before, this state can be reached, physical death overcome through building a strong spiritual identity, even after the destruction of the physical self. There is plenty of saints of all different religious flavours that have acquired through spiritual practice the ability to manifest in different ways. There are no God religion-specific chosen ones though, it' s all got to do with practice and inclination (talent, DNA).

I don't think freemasons and their rituals are evil. You have to have some faith to join at all. I think it is dangerous when people like Joseph smith make a religion out of its practices and recruit people into a cult. Mormonism even tried to throw a revolt when they moved out west and didn't accept a government representative in any form. If it wasn't for a long winter Mormon forces (which were recalled from all over to fight the union troops) would have fought and started a revolution.

That is the danger. That a few will use what they learn to replace religion and gain political power. While that is not the fault of any mason they have to remember that they can cause allot of damage by replacing things like religion that are a moral compass for many. I know that is not their aim at all but it is the effect sometimes they have in their members.

Good will does not mean absolute good. And absolute good cannot exist without some measure of altruism.
They are not evil no. They do allot of good. They also pose a threat though to society in its base form by offering what to some is a replacement of religion. Something still needed in society and by doing so cause tensions in highly religious communities. The political aspect is downright dangerous. Look at Romney. Who the hell knows what he thinks. His true mind is a mystery to most Americans. That could be bad and he can't explain it either.........secrets suck. They lead to mistrust.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
You and I have had this conversation before. Jesus said, "you must be born again." In other words, baptism is our immersion into the water to cleanse the temple. It's an opportunity we are given. If we refuse the water, fire cleanses the temple. Fire melts our hearts and reshapes them by trials. I choose to put the fire out with water. We each light the fire we burn by. I don't question God's judgement on this. A soul keeps living until the one that can destroy it says, "ENOUGH!" The final judgment will come for all of us. A final judgment implies others before. God gives life and he can take it. He has the right. He also is holy and perfect, expecting nothing less of us that this. Jesus is offered as our sacrifice. Accepting this requires repentance from our own prideful nature. If we choose to retain it, we light the fire we burn by.

We don't know why some people die young or suffer indignity. We will know eventually, but we are merely the witness at this point. No need to become the accused.

You seem to be knowledgeable and you must be commended for seeing certain things. If it may be possible it would be nice to try and enlighten you on certain things from which you are obviously lacking in knowledge of.

The being "born again" to which Jesus referred when talking to Nicodemus was not water baptism. Water baptism is necessary, and all who look upon Jesus for salvation need to be baptized in water, but not all are baptized with holy spirit.

When Jesus went to John to be baptized he was completely submerged in water, this was symbolic of his dying to his former course of life, and being raised out of the water is his new life dedicated to do Jehovah, his Father's will. After the water baptism, Jehovah God himself sent holy spirit upon his son, his firstborn creation, who emptied his previous spirit life in heaven to become a man, in the form of a dove it descended and baptized Jesus. This is the baptized of holy spirit and it comes after water baptism.

Nicodemus didn't understand the spiritual things. In order to see God's kingdom, or to make up a part of it one needed to be born again in holy spirit. In what way? When one is truly born again, the holy spirit that anoints that one implants a seed, a new creature within the person, and through the quickening it changes that persons thoughts and aspirations and desires. He is adopted as a spirit son of God, and is justified in the blood of Jesus and legally established on the basis of mercy worthy of entrance in heaven, where God's kingdom is.

A person that is born again can only see now partially who Jehovah and his son Jesus are, because we as humans cannot perceive spirit, and they are not flesh and blood but are spirit. But when we are changed after death to be like them then we will see them as they are, for we who have been born again and adopted as spirit sons of God, will see him as he is for then we will be like him:


(1 Corinthians 13:12) . . .For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. . . .


(1 Corinthians 15:29) . . .Otherwise, what will they do who are being baptized for the purpose of [being] dead ones? . . .


(1 Corinthians 15:50) . . .However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom. . .



(1 Corinthians 15:52, 53) . . .For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.

(Romans 8:15) . . .For YOU did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”

Jesus was not telling Nicodemus that everyone would need to be born again, rather he was saying, in order to enter into the kingdom in heaven one must be born again.

Let me give you an example so you may understand it more clearly. Let us say there is a certain town with a prestigious college. Now one of the requirements to enter it is that you have to be a son of a citizen of the town. You see an outsiders cannot gain admittance. They are not allowed.

But let us say a man, a citizen of the town adopts a child. The child being the adopted son of this man now qualifies to be admitted.

Thus is it with God's kingdom. You cannot enter into it (it is heavenly, and you must be baptized to die and be raised an immortal spirit being in the form of God and Jesus) unless you are "born again," anointed with holy spirit, and adopted as spirit children of God.

(Romans 9:16) . . .So, then, it depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnigmaticDill

 

You lost me.

Can you provide any examples of how Masonry goes against the bible aside from out of place bible quotes?

Freemasonry teaches that the soul is immortal. I know this not because I'm a mason but because my grandfather who was one had a Freemason Bible and in it there was this little tract, and in order to become a mason it said one had to confess belief in a "god" and also that the soul is immortal. I remember that much, it's been many years, but I remember that. You may correct me if I'm wrong. The Bible states:


(Ezekiel 18:4) Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.


I went as far as reading that tract and knew that Freemasonry teaching was contrary to the Bible and not compatible with it. I respect everyone's right to worship/believe as they wish, just pointing out that Freemasonry is not compatible with Biblical teaching.

reply to post by SubAce


I went so far as joining the Order and becoming a Master Mason.

I appreciate your opinion, but you are wrong.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by SubAce

 

I went so far as joining the Order and becoming a Master Mason.

I appreciate your opinion, but you are wrong.

Wrong about what? That Freemason's are required to believe that the soul is immortal? Thank you for your response, I don't understand what you are referring to. Is this or is it not a requirement to become a mason? Because if I remember that was one the tract.

reply to post by SubAce


Wrong that Masonic teachings go against the Bible. If anything they only serve to enhance ones understanding of the bible. However, you wouldn't know that.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked above. Can you provide any examples of how the principles of Freemasonry oppose the bible?

reply to post by BIHOTZ


Humanity needs to change the ways it educates children, keep religion and politics out, focus on tolerance, love and understanding. Individual spirituality and wisdom will develop and hopefully the world will have at some point a generation of responsible, compassionate truth seekers.

Originally posted by starseedflower
reply to post by BIHOTZ

 

Humanity needs to change the ways it educates children, keep religion and politics out, focus on tolerance, love and understanding. Individual spirituality and wisdom will develop and hopefully the world will have at some point a generation of responsible, compassionate truth seekers.

I agree, wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by SubAce

 

Wrong that Masonic teachings go against the Bible. If anything they only serve to enhance ones understanding of the bible. However, you wouldn't know that.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked above. Can you provide any examples of how the principles of Freemasonry oppose the bible?

This one principle about the soul being immortal. It is not compatible with Biblical teaching. For the Bible clearly states:

(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.

We are mortal creatures. When we die we cease to exist. The Bible states:

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

The teaching that the soul is immortal is not Biblical rather it is Babylonian in origin and comes from Babylonian mystery religions.

Also one of the requirements on that tract said one has to believe in a deity or a god. I don't think it matters which god one chooses to believe in, it doesn't have to be the Biblical God, correct me of I'm wrong about that as well.

That would obviously go against Biblical teaching. For example Jehovah God states:

(Isaiah 43:10) . . .“you are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.

So anyone who becomes a Freemason who does not believe in Jehovah God, would obviously not be putting their belief or trust in the real God. And can one really worship falsehoods and mix it with truth and not offend Jehovah:


(1 Corinthians 10:21) . . .YOU cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; YOU cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons.


Thank you for your reply.

reply to post by SubAce


Once again:

You have your faith, I have mine. I would never go so far as to say yours is the wrong one and mine is the right.

reply to post by starseedflower


I hope so. I really do.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by SubAce

 

Once again:

You have your faith, I have mine. I would never go so far as to say yours is the wrong one and mine is the right.

That is fair. I also respect your beliefs. Thanks for taking the time for replying. These were my thoughts on the matter and where I stand on the issue. Whether one agrees with the Bible or not is up to them.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Slowly, they say that Lucifer is the true good guy and that God is the one that is messing with mankind. Masons are eventually taught this in their ritual.

Maybe you can point out the specific portion of the ritual where this occurs. Afterwards maybe you can explain why I need to be like you and believe in Lucifer at all.

edit on 4-8-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer

Lucifer and God exist and represent nearly opposite philosophies. Even if they are not "real" in the sense that one could hold them or whatever, they are real in the sense that they are symbols that represent philosophies that lead to action.

I think the closest example would be something like liberalism, except it doesn't use a figurehead / idol to personify its viewpoints. You could also think of Communism and use Marx as a personification of that philosophy, even though he is dead now, does he not live on (kind of)? Same thing.

Wow nice edit explanation ha ha.

I don't think the average person knows the whole story of God, Lucifer and how they interact in today's society. I'm starting to get an idea - but I'm not completely sure.