[Official] No holds bar... "Reality" is not what it seems.

First of all, if you think you have it figured it out... what reality actually is. You are probably wrong. In fact, most of us have no idea what we are engaged in as a participant of this system of "Reality".

Well, what is reality? The first obvious fact about what it is, is it's something that you experience. Reality is an experience that you are having right now. Fairly self-evident given that you are reading this thread and participating in being a part of what reality is.

That said, does participating in reality mean what you experience is in fact "Reality"? Or is it a product of reality based on the finite limitations of physical senses, and the human mind's ability to render the data from these senses into a view of what "Reality" appears to be.

What a great topic. Reality.

Now, I know it might be prudent to move past reality and get more personal and into the reality of "you" as a part of it. I find this part of reality, a very fascinating and relevant topic. You as a part of reality. This finite, yet infinite part of existence.

What best defines this? The self perhaps? You, the self experiencing this, the reality. I raise this topic because at the fundamental levels of existence, it is the self, or the observer that experiences "Reality". It is through these experiences as the "self" that reality becomes known, experienced and lived.

You, a self-aware part of an objective reality system. You. A being that experiences what reality actually is. A part of you. An aspect of yourself. Interconnected, intertwined, and exclusively subjective a reality within a greater reality. You are different from the objective world. You are subjective, a part of it. Not the whole thing. Yet real, relevant and valid to this discussion.

I find this "You" or what I like to call it, "The Self" a very interesting part of what reality is. In my opinion, you are reality. It is you reading this post that makes this post real.

It is you being in the present, self-aware and capable of understanding language, mathematics, paradoxes and many other profound topics. Very fascinating.

It is "you" that is the reality that you are perceiving. It is by being you, self-aware and conscious that this moment. This text, is part of your reality. It's a part of mine. It is what we share in a round-about way.

You are reality. It is as it seems. You are real.

Am I wrong?

Relatively real.

22nd line

reply to post by BlueMule


Real enough for me.

I wouldn't dare say you were wrong for fear of erasing myself from existence..

Enjoyable thread to read thanks.. I always enjoy your posts. I often wonder how differently other peoples 'realities' are to our own.

Based on what, how and when you touch, taste, smell, see and hear when you grow up you calibrate your perception to the environment around you.

You see green but I see red. But we are BOTH seeing the SAME colour. Maybe some people see what I see as yellow when they look at the sky..

Maybe I taste chocolate, you taste bananas..

Could explain different 'tastes' better than merely preference.

Loved your thread, S+F

I am what I am, but there's more than I am.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
Am I wrong?

Yes you are.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
Well, what is reality? The first obvious fact about what it is, is it's something that you experience.

That's neither obvious nor correct. Second, you go on questioning this "obvious fact" in the next sentence:

That said, does participating in reality mean what you experience is in fact "Reality"?

See, you even had a clear definition of 'reality'. Then you go on and mix it with your mind.

There is a great set of scientific axioms and theories that give a pretty good view on what 'reality is. Simplified it is:
1. Matter
2. A set of rules on how this Matter interacts with each other

With this matter it is possible to build what we call 'organic matter', which we humans tend to look at as "living" matter because of its' properties.
A human has therefore a fine set of receptors to take input from the outside world, and the possibility to process this information, not only to take action to survive, but also to simply reflect on it.
Since humans are based on organic matter, making each individual physically unique (even twins), our receptors and/or chemical balances in our brain translates our environment slightly differently from each other.
This, simplified, gives us our individual way of thinking, creating different personalities and different thoughts.

However, science is a fantastic tool to use to share these different ways of thinking and actually make us an even bigger of a living organism that irons out the flaws in our processing and giving us a clearer image of "reality" as we go.

So, to summarize: You are mixing up 'reality' with 'thoughts' or the 'self'. To learn more about 'self', read more on how the human is built.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming

For us human beings I think it's an emotional quality, something experienced deep within, but it can't be particularized, as something in particular, whether here, there or anywhere, least of all outside of one's self, something out there, with me in here, lost, and confused because I don't know what's going on or who I really am, that's absurd, because we DO know ourselves as we are. Therefore reality, is an anticipated opportunity, or a regret, and it's real, our experience, but few among us have the courage to really FEEL it, and live to the hilt, to live a life of celebration and joy on behalf of those who are mired in suffering, that a place can be made for us all.

Home is where the heart is, and where your heart is, there is your treasure also.

There's no there there, we don't need to be concerned about anything, since there's nothing to be concerned about.

Reality is the way life feels, and felt like as a kid, before you had your first deep and troubling concern. That's reality.

One could go further and say all of your senses which detect the world and make us self aware is by definition a series of electrical impulses sent to your brain from your eyes or nose or fingers or ears to your brain and that composes all reality for every human.

How did this system of sense and electrical symbols come to be? What If i could Show a thousand people a picture of a bear and watch the brain as it collects the signal and distributes the signal from neuron to neuron until i have an exact map neuron activity so i can recreate these in a brain.

If i reproduce this same fire pattern and rate in a person then they should in theory see a bear as real as it can be....

I just don't think we as self aware sentients can point at any aspect of reality, point at it, as a "thing" and say that's reality, that's ridciulous. For us, reality isn't a thing, it's an experience, an experience of being alive, not a thing, no matter how you slice and dice the process, to say that reality is a thing, and then ask me to call myself a thing within a bunch of things, as if standing apart from myself and then from that lofty position relegating myself to unconsciousness - it's crazy, and absurd. I think many of you scientifically minded American trained people are crazy. Reality is a heartfelt experience of being alive, it's love, truth, it's i amness. As a process, as part of an eternal evolutionary process, we're still "in it" sandwitched between two eternnities in an unfolding present moment as ourselves having an experience, and so we're back where we started from. For some of you to assume that you've got it all worked out, and then ask me to look with you, with our arms crossed over each other at reality, including ourselves, point to it (the thing) and say there it is - that's HILIARIOUS!!!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Hi New Age Man, and all.

I have a question...anyone here tried a floatation tank/ deprivation tank ??

Certainly this leads to all kinds of "other realities".

reply to post by Silo4


This is basically the VR in the matrix movies.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I think many of you scientifically minded American trained people are crazy.

I don't know what "scientifically minded American trained people" really means.
In the Western world, the U.S. has the biggest percentage of religious people. I'm sure there is a cross-section of "scientifically minded" religious people in the U.S.
So, if we are to combine "scientifically minded" and "American trained" in one sentence, pure reason would interpret that as "A person who was given the tools of science in school and who also had a Christian or other religious upbringing on the side".

But what I think you meant was to portray the american upbringing as "scientifically minded" - period. I think that is sheer ignorance. (Doesn't the ATS promote us to Deny Ignorance?).

Also, you said "trained". I hope you are aware that religion needs to be trained, and science learned?
Science is nothing that someone makes up and the rest swallow.

For some of you to assume that you've got it all worked out, and then ask me to look with you, with our arms crossed over each other at reality, including ourselves, point to it (the thing) and say there it is - that's HILIARIOUS!!!

No one can, in the name of science, say that they got it all worked out. If they did, they'd be lying. We do, however, have a pretty good grasp on how things work.

I have a small favor to ask you, though.
Could you please read the above quote on what you said about other people assuming they got it all worked out (even if we claim we haven't). Please read that text 3-5 times, and remember those words to the best of your ability before proceeding.

Ok, Now, let's agree on that you lashed out at people who claim that they have everything worked out. You even thought it was "HILIARIOUS!!!".
Let's also agree that no "sciency"-person has actually claimed that on this thread, but I accept your view on it in general.

Speaking of "having it all figured out", let's quote you:

Reality is a heartfelt experience of being alive, it's love, truth, it's i amness. As a process, as part of an eternal evolutionary process, we're still "in it" sandwitched between two eternnities in an unfolding present moment as ourselves having an experience, and so we're back where we started from.

....There is nothing in the world that backs up the above. Did you just make it up? Or how did you "figure it all out". Don't YOU think it's "HILIARIOUS!!!!"?


Finally: Yes, I have also felt the world to be more magical years ago. The less you know, the more magical and mysterious things seem, that's only logical.
However, not to be bothered to actually find out is simply ignorant.
(jumping into a tank of water/milk/fudge/poop to think about it - as someone suggested, might not be the way to go, though).

Originally posted by TechUnique
I wouldn't dare say you were wrong for fear of erasing myself from existence..

How are things TechUnique. I've been away. Lifestyle, work the usual distractions.

Originally posted by TechUnique
Enjoyable thread to read thanks.. I always enjoy your posts. I often wonder how differently other peoples 'realities' are to our own.

I think that if look at "Reality" from the subjective viewpoint, it can be argued that we each experience reality differently from each other. However, what we experience falls into objectivity and there is this fundamental root of what that objectivity is.

I know that science strives to understand this through the scientific method; which I cannot argue with. That said, science still struggles to understand consciousness. And that is at best, the focus state that each subjective part experiences objectivity as.

That's why I enjoy focusing on that aspect of reality. It's real, it's valid and needs exploration. It does certainly lead to the "self". For whatever we know that to be.

Originally posted by TechUnique
Based on what, how and when you touch, taste, smell, see and hear when you grow up you calibrate your perception to the environment around you.

You see green but I see red. But we are BOTH seeing the SAME colour. Maybe some people see what I see as yellow when they look at the sky..

Maybe I taste chocolate, you taste bananas..

Could explain different 'tastes' better than merely preference.

Loved your thread, S+F

I think what you just described best explains, "Qualia".

And I am very pro-qualia as it fits the model of experience and reality perfectly.

Originally posted by Consequence

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
Am I wrong?

Yes you are.

Perhaps. I never stated I was right.

Originally posted by Consequence

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
Well, what is reality? The first obvious fact about what it is, is it's something that you experience.

That's neither obvious nor correct. Second, you go on questioning this "obvious fact" in the next sentence:

That said, does participating in reality mean what you experience is in fact "Reality"?

See, you even had a clear definition of 'reality'. Then you go on and mix it with your mind.

The mind is a part of what reality is. They are interchangeable parts of the same thing. Just different from a matter of perspective.

Originally posted by Consequence
There is a great set of scientific axioms and theories that give a pretty good view on what 'reality is. Simplified it is:
1. Matter
2. A set of rules on how this Matter interacts with each other

Yet, matter is light condensed into very specific frequencies and densities. If we take from Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Matter is energy, so physical and solid it really is not. That is not true.

Matter is not what it appears to be. Look at quantum entanglement, the measurement problem and the double-slit experiment with particle/wave duality.

Matter is both solid, or a wave-form. At the quantum level this is wave-function. Nothing solid about that.

So what is your argument? That reality is a measurably physical system? Quantum mechanics contradicts that profoundly. Look a the UCAL Resonator, or the Rochester experiment... even the quantum eraser.

Originally posted by Consequence
With this matter it is possible to build what we call 'organic matter', which we humans tend to look at as "living" matter because of its' properties.

The fact is... you experience reality as an organic system. The reality you experience is the product of the organic brain. It is that product, that rendered view which I am focusing in on. That is the experience of reality and it is vastly different then objective reality for all lifeforms that perceive it.

Originally posted by Consequence
A human has therefore a fine set of receptors to take input from the outside world, and the possibility to process this information, not only to take action to survive, but also to simply reflect on it.
Since humans are based on organic matter, making each individual physically unique (even twins), our receptors and/or chemical balances in our brain translates our environment slightly differently from each other.
This, simplified, gives us our individual way of thinking, creating different personalities and different thoughts.

Thought. Great topic. What is thought? Have you ever thought that the way in which you render your view of reality uses this concept called, "Thought"?

Let's look at thought more closely, as a part of this information processing part of subjective human reality. This might be a far-fetch concept to you. However, I know it's validity. Thought is how you experience reality.

Your perception of reality is rendered by this thing we call thought. It is thought that organizes sensory-information into specific patterns by which we have come to know as space, time, color, matter an all things.

Another example of thought in action describing an experience of reality is dreaming. You know. The dreams you have when you fall asleep at night. Those dreams are rendered on similar mechanics that your sensory-model of this reality is also rendered upon.

Think about this for a moment. The place that both dreams and reality are rendered upon by the human brain. What is that place? If we can even call it a place?

Let me put it this way, physical reality and what you dream are rendered on this mind-generated canvas, like a computer screen. The way that information is rendered there is based on organized-thought. It's more evident by dreaming, because you can see in action how thought canvases and renders out an experience of reality.

In waking life, this information is more structured by sensory input; but the end result is a mind-rendered experience. The mind, thought all play a crucial role in how reality is both perceived, rendered and experienced by the self.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Hi New Age Man, and all.

I have a question...anyone here tried a floatation tank/ deprivation tank ??

Certainly this leads to all kinds of "other realities".

I think it all leads to the same reality, but leads to other ways in which we can experience it.

the first step to finding reality is to understand that this world is illusion ... one must move beyond the veil of illusion to find reality ...

reply to post by Silo4


Got me thinking...

None of us have ever seen a real unicorn, but we can all imagine what one looks like.
Now if the first time time you ever saw one it was really a picture of a bear and someone told you "unicorn", you would belive that bear to be a unicorn. Because YOU believe it.
Over time people would begin telling you "No thats not a unicorn, thats a bear."
If you heard this enough, you would start to "see" (believe) a bear.
So really conscious reality, is only as good as your ability to recognize or compare to what you have been taught.
You know nothing about anything untill you experiance it.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


What I find both amazing and shocking is that out of nine replies to this thread, NO ONE seems to be royally P'd off that the thread title had the word 'Official' in it. I guess this is the reality we live in, where words mean nothing anymore. Official, Safe, Free...

And, we're okay with this, why?

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


Reality is what is real. Reality is something that does not change, it is something that is solid and reliable. When you find what is changeless you will know you have found reality.
What is seen and experienced is always changing, like a movie, it is moving. Find the immovable and you will be unmoved by the sound and fury of existence.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


What is reality...?

better yet... Who are you?