America On Verge Of Communist Takeover, Says Former Castro Revolutionary

the commie is already in the whitehouse.

read the manifesto morons.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

I have been patiently waiting for you to respond to my last post. You conveniently passed over it for some reason. In that post I have shown twice how you have either twisted words or outright lied.

I'll say it again.....you lied!

You have completely discredited yourself in my opinion.

I lied really?... Let's see where you CLAIM i lied...

You CLAIMED, and I quote...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Quite presumptuous and rude...huh? I'm quite the history nerd and have done a lot of research on various topics relating to government and politics. Am I an expert? No....but I am not flying blind either.

But you are claiming that I lied about you reading books. First of all, a true history nerd doesn't base his knowledge on what he/she reads on the internet, since it is easier for anyone to write lies over the internet than to do so in books, even when there are books in which people lie and twist things around...

I didn't lie... I assumed that you read books... OMG I guess this means everything I wrote is a lie!!!!

Learn to make an intelligent and concise counter-argument please...

Then you claimed, and I quote;

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Leftwinger...socialism is good, blah blah blah. Propaganda, plain and simple. I am well beyond falling for crap like that.

I don't even know what in the world you are trying to say with the above sentence. You are saying "socialism is good, blah blah blah, and that this is propaganda plain and simple", yet on your other posts you are trying to imply that socialism is good... You seem to be contradicting yourself...

I don't know how you can use this as any "proof" that I lied...

Let's continue...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
You are taking the worst examples of socialism mixed with fascism or communism and attempting to discredit socialism altogether. That's like using Bernie Madeoff as an example to discredit capitalism.

On it's own, socialism is not inherently evil. Nor is capitalism. It takes the intent of bad people to use the ideology in a negative way.

There is no "socialism mixed with fascism, or communism, fascism and communism are two of the MANY forms of socialism that exist...

You need socialism in order for fascism to exist, and you need socialism in order for communism to exist.

Some other members and I proved that Mussolini, and Hitler were socialists. Just because you don't want to accept this is not going to change these facts.

Bernie Madoff and company did not invent capitalism, and neither are they any proof that "capitalism is evil"...

Now you are trying to compare apples and oranges and claim they are the same thing...

It would be like me claiming that socialism is evil because of the drug trade that exists even in socialist nations...

Then you claim.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Police and other services are provided by taking wealth of the people and creating a service for the common good. By definition...that's socialism. Please explain to me the mechanics of how exactly capitalism created these services without taking wealth from citizens.

First of all, using taxes for services does not equal socialism... Can any person go into a police station and use any equipment the police have and use, or even the weapons they have?... No... Does the government own and control police stations and police officers? or do they respond to their respective states?... The government does not own police stations and their officers, even though they are trying to do so, and the fact that shows this is that there are police officers, captains, and sheriffs who have been speaking out against the government and have even made laws that if a FEDERAL OFFICER tries to enforce UnConstitutional laws and try to FORCE such laws against the citizens of such states that the Sheriff will send officers to detain and incarcerate the FEDERAL OFFICERS who are trying to enforce such unlaful FEDERAL LAWS...

Second of all, this is like claiming that reunions are socialist because people unite to discuss certain topics, which sorry to say it's not true...

Third of all, even if there was a flat tax, instead of the "Progressive taxes" that we have, the flat tax would also be used to pay for these services...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Communism may do just as you described but socialism does not. Socialism is nothing more than the idea that all goods and resources should be shared by all for the common good. It does not become oppressive as you describe until communist or fascism are injected into the mix.

Again you are wrong...

Definition of SOCIALISM

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods


2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.


3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
...

www.merriam-webster.com...

Even under socialism the means of production is owned by the state, and private property is abolished...

Socialism is as oppressive as communism because it tries to FORCE everyone to do the will of those in power...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I never said anything of the sort and this is an outright lie! Please quote in your response speciflly where I said that.

Excuse me but you are lying through your teeth...

You claimed and I quote;

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Communism is not an issue at all. That is just another scary term to get people wiggling uncomfortably in their chairs.
...

Or are you now going to claim you never said such a thing that "communism is not an issue at all"?...

What YOU have proven is that it is YOU who is lying...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Again... presumptuous and rude. I could care less what leftwingers or rightwingers say about socialism or communism. I rely on my own ability to read and discern fact from outright propaganda.

What you have shown is that you have swallowed complete the lie that "communism is not an issue at all"... In fact, apart from showing that YOU lied, you have shown to have swallowed the "propaganda"...

Communism is dead, almost everywhere in the world, it failed even in countries like Russia.

Keep dreaming your fairy tales how America is "overtaken" by communism..this is just the most laughable thing ever. Just another Obama hate thread. /YAWN

Originally posted by flexy123
Communism is dead, almost everywhere in the world, it failed even in countries like Russia.

Keep dreaming your fairy tales how America is "overtaken" by communism..this is just the most laughable thing ever. Just another Obama hate thread. /YAWN

edit on 3-8-2012 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I saw that movie too.

America is not communist, and it's not gonna become communist. Obama is no Communist, He's an international Socialist. America is Socialist without a doubt, but not fully as of yet. America is a mixture of International Socialism / International Capitalism. Throw some facism inside that salad mix and that is about what you get. I don't believe they even have an 'ism' label for what we are just yet. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Again you fail. You post a dictionary entry with three different interpretations and highlight the one that you prefer without noticing that the other two contradict your assertion.

And this is not even taking into account other takes on the word.

Originally posted by SheopleNation
America is not communist, and it's not gonna become communist. Obama is no Communist, He's an international Socialist. America is Socialist without a doubt, but not fully as of yet. America is a mixture of International Socialism / International Capitalism. Throw some facism inside that salad mix and that is about what you get. I don't believe they even have an 'ism' label for what we are just yet. ~$heopleNation

Cuba was at first socialist. In fact castro even had the backing of socialists because he CLAIMED that he was implementing only socialism. castro even ordered Camilo Cienfuegos to detain some socialist officers who were asking too many questions about communists infiltrating their "socialist" ranks.

Huber Matos, then a school teacher, declared himself in opposition to Fulgencio Batista on March 10, 1952 the day that Cuban democracy came under attack. Following the extrajudicial killing of some of his former students he joined the armed struggle and ended up being one of the leaders of the revolutionary insurrection that drove Batista from power on New Year’s Eve 1958.

Less than a year later he would be on trial for his life. What was his crime? Warning Fidel Castro in several private letters, where he tendered his resignation only to have it refused, that communists were infiltrating the revolutionary government. In these letters he plainly stated:"I did not want to become an obstacle to the revolution and I believe that if I am forced to choose between falling into line or withdrawing from the world so as not to do harm, the most honorable and revolutionary action is to leave."
...
Fidel Castro made the letters public generating the crisis and denouncing the charge that communists were infiltrating the government. He ordered Camilo Cienfuegos, another popular revolutionary leader, to go an arrest Matos. The Castro brothers began to prepare a show trial and the execution by firing squad of Huber Matos for treason.
...
Revolutionary officers that had been convened at the trial to chant "to the execution wall" instead moved by his testimony rose up and applauded Matos. Instead of the firing squad the revolutionary tribunal sentenced him to 22 years in prison.

Huber Matos would serve every day of those 22 years suffering beatings and other tortures. Camilo Cienfuegos, a figure more popular then Fidel Castro, would go missing a few days later on October 28, 1959.
...

cubanexilequarter.blogspot.com...

There is always the possibility that a socialist state becomes communist. You need socialism in order for communism to exist, but either way they are both dictatorships because people are FORCED to do the will of a few.

Originally posted by daskakik

Again you fail. You post a dictionary entry with three different interpretations and highlight the one that you prefer without noticing that the other two contradict your assertion.

And this is not even taking into account other takes on the word.

Again you fail in your reading comprehension...

If you read again what the definition of socialism has ALWAYS been, you would see that the first definition is about ALL BRANCHES OF SOCIALISM which includes communism... It is not talking just about socialism itself, but all the branches which includes communism and fascism and the other branches of socialism from these two.

In fact, if you read the first definition, it CLEARLY states, and I quote;...

DEFINITIONS of socialism

1: ANY of VARIOUS economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.
...

And the third definition states, and I quote;...

...
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
...

www.merriam-webster.com...

I have to wonder how you have the galls to use these definitions to claim that I am lying when it is obvious you have a big problem with reading comprehension...

As to "the other takes on the definition" of socialism, these are "re-writting" of history...

Any old timer should know and remember what the definition of socialism has always been, which you can read in the merriam-webster dictionary that I just excerpted from, until the NEW socialists tried to change it's meaning, which is what you are referring to...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Capitalism is the disease that must be eradicated!

In a Communist Utopia there is no need for government, no need for property, no need for money.

The example of government and life in Star Trek is as close to a Communist Utopia as possible. Improving one's self and improving others is the only goal in life.

Originally posted by SG-17

Capitalism is the disease that must be eradicated!

In a Communist Utopia there is no need for government, no need for property, no need for money.

The example of government and life in Star Trek is as close to a Communist Utopia as possible. Improving one's self and improving others is the only goal in life.

Ooooh, I see, so you take YOUR definition of what communism is from a science fiction movie?...

And please, don't make the absurb claim that because some science fiction has become fact that this means communism is great... Then I guess EVERY science fiction movie should become reality if what you claimed was true...

I see...and you actually think that this is what communism is for real despite the fact that it is a science fiction movie?...

So, instead of using what HISTORY and what HAS REALLY HAPPENED under socialist/communist dictatorships you choose to believe a science fiction movie...

Originally posted by bjax9er
the commie is already in the whitehouse.

read the manifesto morons.

Maybe you should do a little research on what the founding fathers wanted for this country before insulting people. Also check into the second bill of rights.

The commies are way too late the Zionist took over this nation decades ago.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Again you fail in your reading comprehension...

Sorry but "collective or governmental" means it could be a "private collective and not governmental or". I think your the one that is having trouble with the comprehension.

...
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
...

But you often claim that socialism and communism are the same thing while this definition states that one is part of the other. Also, that there is unequal distribution of goods going against what many claim socialism to be. Of course this doesn't mean that socialism isn't something that can exist outside of communism but I'm sure you won't accept that.

As to "the other takes on the definition" of socialism, these are "re-writting" of history...

This is what I claim you are doing. What's next, I'm rubber you're glue?

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Capitalism is the disease that must be eradicated!

In a Communist Utopia there is no need for government, no need for property, no need for money.

The example of government and life in Star Trek is as close to a Communist Utopia as possible. Improving one's self and improving others is the only goal in life.

Star Trek wasn't communist it was socialist. And capitalism can be good as long as it's regulated.

reply to post by SG-17

In a Communist Utopia there is no need for government, no need for property, no need for money.

Not only that, the rivers run with creamy milk chocolate, the clouds are marshmallow in the tangerine skies. In a Communist Utopia bears share their caves with humans, and Captain Picard regularly vanquishes those ugly Ferengies. Bears only get territorial about property in Capitalist societies.

Okay, this is getting really silly about claiming communism in the world doesn't exist. Lets at least stay honest to the basic reality. As the saying goes, you have a right to an opinion, not your own set of facts.

People's Republic of China

Government: Communist / Marxist-Leninist Base

Structure: Communist Party of China
General Secretary of the Communist Party of China: Hu Jintao

China 'Paramount Leader': Hu Jintao


Cuba

Government: Authoritarian / Marxist-Leninist Base

Structure: Communist Party of Cuba
First Secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba: Raul Castro

Cuba Prime Minister: Raul Castro


So, we can debate the meaning of the word communist until the cows come home and squirt milk for dinner, but they call themselves this before anyone else does. It's simply the name of the political system few nations still hang onto. Some are reforming like China, to morph into a market version of their system and..I don't know what Cuba is doing yet. Do they?

Originally posted by daskakik

Sorry but "collective or governmental" means it could be a "private collective and not governmental or". I think your the one that is having trouble with the comprehension.

Do you still not understand that the first definition is about ANY OF VARIOUS branches of socialism?...

The definition of socialism in itself is the middle one, the one which CLEARLY states and I quote;...

...
2 a: A system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: A system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.
...

www.merriam-webster.com...

Originally posted by daskakik
But you often claim that socialism and communism are the same thing while this definition states that one is part of the other. Also, that there is unequal distribution of goods going against what many claim socialism to be. Of course this doesn't mean that socialism isn't something that can exist outside of communism but I'm sure you won't accept that.

WRONG... what I have written is that they both lead to dictatorship... They both have some differences just like other branches of socialism, such as fascism, have some differences... They are all part of the same tree that is socialism, but they all have differences otherwise why would anyone invent so many forms of socialism?...

You are still showing a big problem with reading comprehension...

Originally posted by daskakik
This is what I claim you are doing. What's next, I'm rubber you're glue?

I actually gave proof from a very well known source... Or are you going to claim that Merriam-Webster is a "new dictionary"?...

In case you didn't know this is a dictionary that was invented in the 1840s...

You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I understand what you're saying my friend, but we will never be true communists here in the United States. There is way too much private ownership here, both foreign and domestic. Obama is without a doubt some kind of manchurian canidate who's bent on en-larging the federal government along with socialist policies. However, even Communist Red China has accepted international Capitalism / international Socialism ect.

Sure, the old world Mandarin commies still run the show over there in China, but they are no longer running it with their deep rooted Ideology anymore. Anyone who understands economics understands that. Communism is dead, it's on it's last breath in North Korea and Cuba. The New World is just much too tempting to these governments. They know that they can make themselves and their families richer with a much different political agenda.

And finally, The international Bankster Cartel will never accept Communism. They have way too much at stake and are focusing on their Globalist Empire that will never be completed under the banner of Communism. I know that you mean well, and you're a smart poster. Let's just agree to disagree on this one because I respect alot of what you have to say here at ATS. Just my opinion. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by buster2010

Star Trek wasn't communist it was socialist. And capitalism can be good as long as it's regulated.

It wasn't me who said that. You better explain that to SG-17 who was who claimed so.

Anyway, it is still a science fiction movie, and unless you are going to claim now that EVERY science fiction movie is real you can't present what supposedly happens in a science fiction movie as proof that socialism is great.

Western societies are now in a phase where they are ready to make the move to communism. It has now reached the point that Marxist theory proposes before the transition. Communism failed in Russia and other places mainly because the societies were largely feudal prior to revolution, and the "means of production" required for a modern society did not exist - they had to be created, through force. In my opinion the Bolshevik control of Russia was nothing but a forced transitional phase towards capitalism, as Russia was an extremely backward nation by western standards. Capitalism is a necessary phase when moving towards communism and democratic 'socialism' has existed in the west for decades - preparing the population. Now, in the highly develop western societies, the fruit is ripe. The population has been indoctrinated with internationalism, atheism and social justice. We are already seeing the merger of corporations and state - some might call the system the west now lives in fascism, and they would be absolutely right, as Mussolini described fascism as the merger of corporations and state. However I see it as a phase by phase transition towards communism - private property will be nationalized. It is coming, but it is not ready yet. I highly doubt Obama will "finish" the process, or even go as far as 'cancel' the elections. He is but one pawn in a game that has been going on for a long time.

May God help us all, if he is watching.