No words can express the feelings I have looking at these pictures.
So sad, so very very sad...and all for the sake of winning?
Or maybe there are some perverse types that train these children that just enjoy the torture?
China's Torture of Children for the Olympic Gold?, page 1
Topic started on 3-8-2012 @ 09:30 AM by loam
Insight?
If even remotely true, I'd call this simply abuse!
Disgusting.
Frankly, this makes me completely lose interest in the Olympics.
What is the point of the games, if it has devolved into a morass of doping and childhood abuse?
For me, the Olympics has NEVER been about muscles and dexterity, but rather what's going inside the head of the athlete-- the Olympian's determination...resolve...and personal commitment...to be the best and most skilled of humanity at certain physical feats.
Getting there in any way, other than self determination, renders the games into nothing more than a grotesque display of body mechanics and what is biologically possible for human beings.
If that turns the world on, so be it.
But I find the whole thing, like many other things in the world today, a complete sham!
The regulating authorities of the games need to get a clue.
Hard training: Her face etched with pain, a child trains for Olympic glory while her gymnastics trainer stands on her legs.
Torture or training? Inside the brutal Chinese gymnasium where the country's future Olympic stars are beaten into shape
Her face etched with pain, a child trains for Olympic glory while her gymnastics trainer stands on her legs.
The cartoon space rockets and animal astronauts on her tiny red leotard are a stark and powerful reminder of this little girl's tender age as she trains as hard as any adult athlete in the Western world.
Nanning Gymnasium in Nanning, China, is one of many ruthless training camps across the country to which parents send their children to learn how to be champions.
But while training techniques appear extreme to Western eyes, they provide an insight into why China's athletes at London 2012 seem so easily able to swim, dive, lift and shoot their way to victory.
Insight?
If even remotely true, I'd call this simply abuse!
Disgusting.
Frankly, this makes me completely lose interest in the Olympics.
What is the point of the games, if it has devolved into a morass of doping and childhood abuse?
For me, the Olympics has NEVER been about muscles and dexterity, but rather what's going inside the head of the athlete-- the Olympian's determination...resolve...and personal commitment...to be the best and most skilled of humanity at certain physical feats.
Getting there in any way, other than self determination, renders the games into nothing more than a grotesque display of body mechanics and what is biologically possible for human beings.
If that turns the world on, so be it.
But I find the whole thing, like many other things in the world today, a complete sham!
The regulating authorities of the games need to get a clue.
edit on 3-8-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 09:47 AM by loam
reply to post by ollncasino
In my view, a 'will to win' at the expense or subjugation of others-- particularly children-- is not a laudable virtue.
It displays the worst humanity has to offer, imo.
Perhaps, China should be given a Gold Medal for that!
Originally posted by ollncasino
To be fair, the Chinese seem to have a will to win, as a society, far in excess of much of the West.
In my view, a 'will to win' at the expense or subjugation of others-- particularly children-- is not a laudable virtue.
It displays the worst humanity has to offer, imo.
Perhaps, China should be given a Gold Medal for that!
edit on 3-8-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 09:52 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by loam
First the things I agree with about the OP....
It looks horrible.
They are robbed of their childhoods.
It doesn't even work in the long run, because China has almost 4 times the population of the US, and they train from an early age at one specific thing, throwing out all other education and life experience, and focusing their very existence on perfecting a single sport, and then they still get less medals than the US. So, they do all this for nothing.
NOW, the things I think are exaggerated in the OP's source and general impression of China and Eastern European athletics...
It is still voluntary.
I have friends that have been through these athletic or even scholarly programs in both China and the former USSR. They are not kidnapping kids, they are not intentionally torturing them, they do still care about them, but the culture is somewhat different than our own.
What is true is this:
They don't tell every kid they can be whatever they want when they grow up. They don't lie to their kids like we do in the US. I never had a physical chance to be a world-class sprinter, or a fighter-pilot like I wanted to be.
At least in other countries they are honest in appraising a kids natural interests, natural abilities, and physical limitations and helping the kids to get into something they actually have a chance to succeed at instead of wasting their time telling every kid they can be a Doctor or Engineer and then finding out they just are not smart enough to pass an MCAT or master high-level math.
We torture our own kids in wasting decades of education and making them believe some pipedream only to let them down later and make them feel like failures in accepting a fairly mediocre or mundane existence where the vast majority of people end up existing. I'm sure we could write up an article on Helium, and then a thread on ATS, complete with pictures that may or may not be in proper context, to show how cruel and mean we are to our own kids.
NOW,
That brings me to my next point. My 5 year old often grimaces in pain like that and you'd think I was tearing him from limb to limb, when all I really did was put his shoe on with the shoelace inside, or pulled off a bandaid that he didn't need in the first place. We don't know if that little girl is really being tortured or not.
Lastly,
From what I know of education and athletics in China or the former USSR, they do not accept failure. Everyone has an equal opportunity....... once. After that first failure, you will do something you are more suited for. You don't get 12 years to complete a 4 year degree, and you don't get to try out for track in one school, and then the next, and then the next until you find one where you are the fastest kid. It doesn't work that way. You give it your best or you don't get another opportunity, and if your best is not good enough, then they find something else you are better suited for.
In conclusion, despite all that stuff I just said, I actually AGREE with the OP
In my opinion, their's seems like a better system, but obviously it is NOT, because I go back to the first paragraph. The US is winning more medals, more golds, with happier competitors, and only 25% of the population they have in China to choose from. Obviously a higher percentage of Americans are reaching bigger success, so our system must be pretty damn good too!
First the things I agree with about the OP....
It looks horrible.
They are robbed of their childhoods.
It doesn't even work in the long run, because China has almost 4 times the population of the US, and they train from an early age at one specific thing, throwing out all other education and life experience, and focusing their very existence on perfecting a single sport, and then they still get less medals than the US. So, they do all this for nothing.
NOW, the things I think are exaggerated in the OP's source and general impression of China and Eastern European athletics...
It is still voluntary.
I have friends that have been through these athletic or even scholarly programs in both China and the former USSR. They are not kidnapping kids, they are not intentionally torturing them, they do still care about them, but the culture is somewhat different than our own.
What is true is this:
They don't tell every kid they can be whatever they want when they grow up. They don't lie to their kids like we do in the US. I never had a physical chance to be a world-class sprinter, or a fighter-pilot like I wanted to be.
At least in other countries they are honest in appraising a kids natural interests, natural abilities, and physical limitations and helping the kids to get into something they actually have a chance to succeed at instead of wasting their time telling every kid they can be a Doctor or Engineer and then finding out they just are not smart enough to pass an MCAT or master high-level math.
We torture our own kids in wasting decades of education and making them believe some pipedream only to let them down later and make them feel like failures in accepting a fairly mediocre or mundane existence where the vast majority of people end up existing. I'm sure we could write up an article on Helium, and then a thread on ATS, complete with pictures that may or may not be in proper context, to show how cruel and mean we are to our own kids.
NOW,
That brings me to my next point. My 5 year old often grimaces in pain like that and you'd think I was tearing him from limb to limb, when all I really did was put his shoe on with the shoelace inside, or pulled off a bandaid that he didn't need in the first place. We don't know if that little girl is really being tortured or not.
Lastly,
From what I know of education and athletics in China or the former USSR, they do not accept failure. Everyone has an equal opportunity....... once. After that first failure, you will do something you are more suited for. You don't get 12 years to complete a 4 year degree, and you don't get to try out for track in one school, and then the next, and then the next until you find one where you are the fastest kid. It doesn't work that way. You give it your best or you don't get another opportunity, and if your best is not good enough, then they find something else you are better suited for.
In conclusion, despite all that stuff I just said, I actually AGREE with the OP
In my opinion, their's seems like a better system, but obviously it is NOT, because I go back to the first paragraph. The US is winning more medals, more golds, with happier competitors, and only 25% of the population they have in China to choose from. Obviously a higher percentage of Americans are reaching bigger success, so our system must be pretty damn good too!
edit on 3-8-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason
given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:05 AM by loam
reply to post by getreadyalready
Which in my opinion makes the very point that if you even have to debate the question of whether something crosses the line, in the face of more successful alternatives that don't implicate this issue, then we should probably insist upon the alternative.
I remain deeply troubled by what I deem physical and mental abuse of any child. Sure, the definitions may be broad for some. But plain meaning (and evidence of it) has its place and should not be so easily dismissed because of ambiguities that may lay elsewhere.
Just my opinion.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
In conclusion, despite all that stuff I just said, I actually AGREE with the OP
In my opinion, their's seems like a better system, but obviously it is NOT, because I go back to the first paragraph. The US is winning more medals, more golds, with happier competitors, and only 25% of the population they have in China to choose from. Obviously a higher percentage of Americans are reaching bigger success, so our system must be pretty damn good too!
Which in my opinion makes the very point that if you even have to debate the question of whether something crosses the line, in the face of more successful alternatives that don't implicate this issue, then we should probably insist upon the alternative.
I remain deeply troubled by what I deem physical and mental abuse of any child. Sure, the definitions may be broad for some. But plain meaning (and evidence of it) has its place and should not be so easily dismissed because of ambiguities that may lay elsewhere.
Just my opinion.
edit on 3-8-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:19 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by loam
Again, I agree that our system is pretty successfuly, but I'm uncomfortable criticizing theirs. Ours isn't perfect, and we do some pretty horrendous things to our own kids. Look at the abuses that happen right here in the US, some legal, some illegal, but all too common.
Those pictures give me the gut reaction to be outraged, but we don't have the full story.
I'm reminded of a Law and Order episode where an Ethiopian girl was living in a closet, working 16 hour days as a maid and nanny for a rich family. The authorities found out about it, and they wanted to "rescue" her, which meant she would be taken away and sent back to her family. Her little closet had a bed, air-conditioning, clean water, plentiful food, safety, but it was considered inhumane, so instead they wanted to send her back to a place rife with disease, no clean water, no clear shelter, rape and torture from warring tribes were a regular occurence, there was no steady supply of food, no sanitation, she slept while being eaten alive by gnats and mosquitoes, etc., and she still worked 16 hour days just to try to get a portion of a meal.
What the hell kind of "rescue" is that? The "horrid" conditions they found her in were a million times better than what they were sending her back to.
Sometimes we see things through rose-colored glasses and we miss the big picture.
I wonder if that little chinese girl crying because her legs are being stretched, might have otherwise been killed at birth because of the 1-child policy, or maybe she could have been sold into the human-trafficking sex trade, or maybe her family lives in rural china, and she would have been starving? Or maybe that particular 15 minutes of training were really tough, but the cute little leotard was more representative of the rest of her day where she lives like a normal child, plays, eats well, gets educated, etc?
I don't think we have enough information to criticize, and unless we want to fix the whole world with the wave of a magic wand, maybe we should be realistic and seeing that sometimes something bad is still much better than the alternative?
Again, I agree that our system is pretty successfuly, but I'm uncomfortable criticizing theirs. Ours isn't perfect, and we do some pretty horrendous things to our own kids. Look at the abuses that happen right here in the US, some legal, some illegal, but all too common.
Those pictures give me the gut reaction to be outraged, but we don't have the full story.
I'm reminded of a Law and Order episode where an Ethiopian girl was living in a closet, working 16 hour days as a maid and nanny for a rich family. The authorities found out about it, and they wanted to "rescue" her, which meant she would be taken away and sent back to her family. Her little closet had a bed, air-conditioning, clean water, plentiful food, safety, but it was considered inhumane, so instead they wanted to send her back to a place rife with disease, no clean water, no clear shelter, rape and torture from warring tribes were a regular occurence, there was no steady supply of food, no sanitation, she slept while being eaten alive by gnats and mosquitoes, etc., and she still worked 16 hour days just to try to get a portion of a meal.
What the hell kind of "rescue" is that? The "horrid" conditions they found her in were a million times better than what they were sending her back to.
Sometimes we see things through rose-colored glasses and we miss the big picture.
I wonder if that little chinese girl crying because her legs are being stretched, might have otherwise been killed at birth because of the 1-child policy, or maybe she could have been sold into the human-trafficking sex trade, or maybe her family lives in rural china, and she would have been starving? Or maybe that particular 15 minutes of training were really tough, but the cute little leotard was more representative of the rest of her day where she lives like a normal child, plays, eats well, gets educated, etc?
I don't think we have enough information to criticize, and unless we want to fix the whole world with the wave of a magic wand, maybe we should be realistic and seeing that sometimes something bad is still much better than the alternative?
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:20 AM by loam
reply to post by sheepslayer247
Then more fully write about it.
To be clear, this is not an anti-china thing for me.
If people don't realize this kind of stuff is happening, then it's not likely to ever materially change.
Abuse has no nationality.
Originally posted by sheepslayer247
So I think we could use a little introspection before we point fingers at china. Your neighbor's kid could be experiencing something just as cruel and inhumane.
Then more fully write about it.
To be clear, this is not an anti-china thing for me.
If people don't realize this kind of stuff is happening, then it's not likely to ever materially change.
Abuse has no nationality.
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:22 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by sheepslayer247
Right here at Florida State University 1 kid died during Spring Football Drills, and puking multiple times during a practice is so common that if you don't do it, you aren't trying hard enough.
One day I lost 12 lbs in one day to wrestle at a lower weight class in high school. I ran around the gym floor all day, wrapped in trashbags and spitting in a cup to make the weight. (And then I got my ass kicked at the meet from being tired and dehydrated.
)
One article on "Mat Drills" that are common in athletic programs and have resulted in at least 2 deaths.
Right here at Florida State University 1 kid died during Spring Football Drills, and puking multiple times during a practice is so common that if you don't do it, you aren't trying hard enough.
One day I lost 12 lbs in one day to wrestle at a lower weight class in high school. I ran around the gym floor all day, wrapped in trashbags and spitting in a cup to make the weight. (And then I got my ass kicked at the meet from being tired and dehydrated.
) One article on "Mat Drills" that are common in athletic programs and have resulted in at least 2 deaths.
edit on 3-8-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:25 AM by loam
reply to post by getreadyalready
Rubbish.
I don't buy arguments that we should abandon attempts to fix a thing, because it can't be resolved in its entirety.
That kind of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't think we have enough information to criticize, and unless we want to fix the whole world with the wave of a magic wand, maybe we should be realistic and seeing that sometimes something bad is still much better than the alternative?
Rubbish.
I don't buy arguments that we should abandon attempts to fix a thing, because it can't be resolved in its entirety.
That kind of thinking makes absolutely no sense to me.
edit on 3-8-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:33 AM by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by getreadyalready
I'm happy you pointed out all the abuses that happen everywhere, all in the name of good clean competition and sportsmanship of the Olympic games.
There can be no "full story" that would explain what that man was doing to that child in this picture..NOTHING could make it right.
You seem to be implying that if something that is horribly wrong is the lesser of two evils it makes it ok? She didn't need to be sent home, but freedom in poverty is better than slavery with gold faucets, and a comfy bed.
Don't know what rose colored glasses you are looking through , but excuses like this to allow evil to continue is NOT looking at the big picture.
The picture speaks a thousand words, and it makes me very sad that you would try and justify what that trainer is doing , by saying he could be
stretching her leg? WTF ?? 
Again, I agree that our system is pretty successfuly, but I'm uncomfortable criticizing theirs. Ours isn't perfect, and we do some pretty horrendous things to our own kids. Look at the abuses that happen right here in the US, some legal, some illegal, but all too common.
Those pictures give me the gut reaction to be outraged, but we don't have the full story.
I'm happy you pointed out all the abuses that happen everywhere, all in the name of good clean competition and sportsmanship of the Olympic games.
There can be no "full story" that would explain what that man was doing to that child in this picture..NOTHING could make it right.
What the hell kind of "rescue" is that? The "horrid" conditions they found her in were a million times better than what they were sending her back to. Sometimes we see things through rose-colored glasses and we miss the big picture.
You seem to be implying that if something that is horribly wrong is the lesser of two evils it makes it ok? She didn't need to be sent home, but freedom in poverty is better than slavery with gold faucets, and a comfy bed.
Don't know what rose colored glasses you are looking through , but excuses like this to allow evil to continue is NOT looking at the big picture.
I don't think we have enough information to criticize, and unless we want to fix the whole world with the wave of a magic wand, maybe we should be realistic and seeing that sometimes something bad is still much better than the alternative?
The picture speaks a thousand words, and it makes me very sad that you would try and justify what that trainer is doing , by saying he could be
stretching her leg? WTF ?? edit on 3-8-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:43 AM by woodwardjnr
I was watching something on the BBC the other night about how Countries are using genetic modification to avoid the dopping tests. They basically use
stem cells to improve the athletes organs, improving lung capacity and muscle strength. So they are not genetically modified in a test tube or the
womb, but once they show some promise.
This is from a 2004 article, written at the time of the Athens Olympics.
www.guardian.co.uk...
This is from a 2004 article, written at the time of the Athens Olympics.
Ground-breaking medical research on mice and rats has demonstrated possible applications to sport. Geoffrey Goldspink at University College Medical School in London has developed a way of boosting muscle mass with the introduction of foreign, muscle-building DNA, while Lee Sweeney at the University of Pennsylvania has found similar results with his own research - and has been approached by athletes and coaches to use this technology in sport.
www.guardian.co.uk...
reply posted on 3-8-2012 @ 10:43 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by WhisperingWinds
He is stretching her leg.
What do you think he is doing?
It may not be the most appropriate way to stretch a leg, and it certainly does not look pleasant, but he isn't doing it just for the purpose of inflicting pain, he is doing it to make her more flexible. As long as he doesn't tear a tendon, then it isn't that much different than what a coach in the US might do.
I've had karate teachers bring me to the verge of tears before, and I wasn't training for the Olympics, it was just a regular ol class!
The picture speaks a thousand words, and it makes me very sad that you would try and justify what that trainer is doing , by saying he could be stretching her leg? WTF ??
He is stretching her leg.
What do you think he is doing?
It may not be the most appropriate way to stretch a leg, and it certainly does not look pleasant, but he isn't doing it just for the purpose of inflicting pain, he is doing it to make her more flexible. As long as he doesn't tear a tendon, then it isn't that much different than what a coach in the US might do.
I've had karate teachers bring me to the verge of tears before, and I wasn't training for the Olympics, it was just a regular ol class!
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