MSM pulls Olympic race card, disgusting!!!, page 30

reply to post by Milkflavour

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No worries. We can agree to disagree. By the way my original post was in response to the op who claimed the race card angle.

I DO feel race, gender, religion, etc is pushed into our faces to divide us. But I don't think this is one of those times. You know?

Like 'first African American gold medalist' is no big deal to me while a big newspaper headline 'BLACK criminal robs convenient store' or 'CHRISTIAN terrorist shoots abortion doctor'. That is divisive. Saying a Christian is the first president of Pakistan is not. IMHO.

I have no problem celebrating our differences but I do hate it when it is used to divide us. I just don't feel it's this instance.

reply to post by Milkflavour

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Wow... Are you deliberately being dense? The media were NOT using it as a descriptive term, they were using it to highlight a particular aspect of who she is.... It's a very, VERY simple difference... Please try to grasp it... It's important....

The media were NOT using it as a descriptive term, they were using it to highlight a particular aspect of who she is....

highlight a particular aspect of who she is....

What does the phrase "descriptive term" mean to you?

Originally posted by Sinny

Originally posted by Tykonos

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by AutOmatIc

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But she IS African American.

Have you asked her how she feels about it before speaking on her behalf?

What if she is proud to say "Im the first African American woman to do this"...

If thats the case, your tottally raining on her parade.

(Just an alternative view point, In my opinion, your drawing more attention to the fact, than the commentators did)

And if Phelps had said "I'm the first white American to ......" he's be called a racist.

Skin colour and ancestral heritage shouldn't be used to create division.

That makes no sense at all. Racism:

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
theories of racism, prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:

Stating your ethnicity IS NOT RACISM. Stating your ethnicity is better, is racism.

Geese peeps, we wonder why the worlds so backwards.

edit on 3-8-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

weird someone gets it!

reply to post by TsukiLunar

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You are a human. You are also an individual.

Some people think some races(a majority of the time their own race) is superior. That # needs to stop. It will only stop when we stop making a huge deal out of "races".

reply to post by Milkflavour

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Hi Milflavour, welcome to this truly bizarre thread... sorry for butting in here, but you seem like a level headed type of person, and worth discussing this topic with, and I wanted to answer one of your points.

I will have to disagree slightly... As a descriptor, "African American" is just as valid as "woman" in this case, because of the distinct differences that varying races/ethnicities have for varying sports (which is highlighted by the Olympics). People of African descent are traditionally better at athletics, and have achieved less in the gymnastics arena. Just as people of Caucasian descent are better at swimming, and have achieved less in athletics, or other racial/ethnic dominated sports. When race/ethnicity other than African descent achieves in Athletics, it is duly noted, just as Gabby's achievement was noted for gymnastics.

Gabby is only the second African American to win a Gold Medal in gymnastics for over 30 years at the Olympics, and the first in her particular event ever. This makes it an interesting statistic, worth highlighting.

The Olympics has become a global place for unity, where many nationalities and ethnicities mix, and differences and heritage are celebrated, especially when it is a first, and pertinent to the sport.

I don't see the commentary as negative, rather a celebration of one of a individuals personal attributes, in this case Gabby's African American heritage... a positive thing.
Cheers

reply to post by Milkflavour

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Yeah, but being African American isn't 'different' and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make... It doesn't (and shouldn't) make you 'different' to anyone else... Your unique life experiences, personality, thoughts, feelings, relationships etc.... That's what makes you different, not the colour of your skin...

So me, and everybody else in the world, are not aloud to take pride in our heritage?

BTW, what do you mean "color of your skin"? Do you think that is what a race is?

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Milkflavour

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Wow... Are you deliberately being dense? The media were NOT using it as a descriptive term, they were using it to highlight a particular aspect of who she is.... It's a very, VERY simple difference... Please try to grasp it... It's important....

The media were NOT using it as a descriptive term, they were using it to highlight a particular aspect of who she is....

highlight a particular aspect of who she is....

What does the phrase "descriptive term" mean to you?

edit on 4-8-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Ok, either you're a troll or an idiot... I don't know which... Let's try this a different way..

Do you believe that they used the term 'African American' purely as a DESCRIPTIVE phrase e.g. "she was about 5' 6", african american...'

Or

Did they HIGHLIGHT the fact that she was African American and that this, in some way made her achievement more noteworthy?

How about a bit of supporting text to put it into context before you make your final decision?

"...the barriers have long since been down, but sometimes there can be an imaginary barrier based on how one might see oneself."

reply to post by Milkflavour

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Ok, either you're a troll or an idiot

So it is not okay to acknowledge someones race in a positive light, but it is okay to insult me outright?

Did they HIGHLIGHT the fact that she was African American and that this, in some way made her achievement more noteworthy?

She is noted as the first African-American to win a gold in that event. She will always hold that title. Do you think she is offended?

reply to post by Milkflavour

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I'm not trying to be insensitive, but how is her winning this gold at the Olympics helping anyone or affecting anyone in anyway other than her?

I don't think her winning a gold medal is going to help Tom find a job...I don't see why people are making such a big deal over it, when her winning doesn't affect them in anyway.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Milkflavour

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Yeah, but being African American isn't 'different' and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make... It doesn't (and shouldn't) make you 'different' to anyone else... Your unique life experiences, personality, thoughts, feelings, relationships etc.... That's what makes you different, not the colour of your skin...

So me, and everybody else in the world, are not aloud to take pride in our heritage?

BTW, what do you mean "color of your skin"? Do you think that is what a race is?

Dear me, the trolling knows no bounds...

Go back and look at my posts and find for me where I said anyone wasn't allowed to do anything? I simply stated my opinion that, in order for the world to change for the better at some point our notions of race will have to change, and I think the sooner that happens the better.....

And, actually, I also think that, while celebrating heritage can be a good thing, it is undeniable that it perpetuates division within society... People holding onto the past is precisely what causes half of the issues around race in the first place....

Edit:

Also, nice to see you moved the goalposts in your last post there rather than actually answering my question... Bravo!

reply to post by GaspardUlliel

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As long as fools are willing to pay their good money to see stupid things like the olympics, nothing will change. How many people out there grow up with the dumbass dream of being a sports star? How much better would we be if most kids dreamed of becoming doctors, or scientists? Something that will actually have a positive impact in the world......

reply to post by Milkflavour

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.. but it is a noteworthy achievement for an American of African descent to achieve Gold in gymnastics. In a sense, based on statistical data gathered over the last century through the Olympics, it has been shown that athletes of African descent (for whatever reason) are at a distinct disadvantage in the area of gymnastics, so her achievement is worth noting in relation to her racial/ethnic heritage.

This may change over time, but that's where we currently stand... and in this case it isn't a negative thing to highlight it.

reply to post by Milkflavour

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People holding onto the past is precisely what causes half of the issues around race in the first place....

No, not celebrating other races is what causes most(probably all) of the race issues. Just think, if everyone celebrated every race, then we wouldn't have to pretend that races didn't exist.

The world is a much more interesting place when there are other races.

reply to post by puzzlesphere

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Now does that person of African decent have to look predominately African?

What if there was already a person that had a grandmother that was African-American and the rest of their ancestors were European-Americans and this said person looked predominately European (which they are), but they still were of African decent and they won a gold in gymnastics. Would they would be as celebrated as this girl is now? Or would they be seen as just another American that won gold?

I'm sorry...this is sort of off topic...but, I'm just trying to see something. I would be happy if you replied back. ^^

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Milkflavour

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People holding onto the past is precisely what causes half of the issues around race in the first place....

No, not celebrating other races is what causes most(probably all) of the race issues. Just think, if everyone celebrated every race, then we wouldn't have to pretend that races didn't exist.

The world is a much more interesting place when there are other races.

Having race groups is basically tribalism, and that's caused and continues to cause just about every war in the entirety of history: my tribe wants your land, your resources, wants you to believe in the same god as us, you're different and we don't like you because of it....
I don't believe there's many cultural groups on this earth that can exist without demonising others... It's tribalism
Jim, and exactly as we've always know it....

Originally posted by puzzlesphere
reply to post by Milkflavour

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.. but it is a noteworthy achievement for an American of African descent to achieve Gold in gymnastics. In a sense, based on statistical data gathered over the last century through the Olympics, it has been shown that athletes of African descent (for whatever reason) are at a distinct disadvantage in the area of gymnastics, so her achievement is worth noting in relation to her racial/ethnic heritage.

This may change over time, but that's where we currently stand... and in this case it isn't a negative thing to highlight it.

Hmm... I do think you make a good point there.... I guess it is noteworthy in that sense, you're right.... I still think the sooner we get away from these labels the better for us all though.... I know we'll never get rid of cultural groups altogether, and it would be a sad day for the human race if we did, but, whilst people continue to divide along such significant and fundamental lines as race we will have the same kind of disharmony and discrimination that we've always had...

reply to post by GaspardUlliel

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I will try to answer as best as I can... ;-j

Originally posted by GaspardUlliel
Now does that person of African decent have to look predominately African?

I would have to answer yes.

Unfortunately, race by looks (and without genealogy charts) is still an average persons only way to categorise others racial background. Maybe in a few generations that won't be the case, such as in Brazil or other countries with very mixed racial and ethnic backgrounds, where race seems to be less of an issue. As the world becomes more "caramel" overall, I do foresee a tendency for less racism.

Originally posted by GaspardUlliel
What if there was already a person that had a grandmother that was African-American and the rest of their ancestors were European-Americans and this said person looked predominately European (which they are), but they still were of African decent and they won a gold in gymnastics. Would they would be as celebrated as this girl is now? Or would they be seen as just another American that won gold?

In a sense you have answered your own question here, and it relates to my "yes" answer from your first question. The hypothetical athlete you describe would genetically have more Caucasian genes (as seen in their looks, as you suggested), and so would have a propensity to perform well in gymnastics because of proven genealogical advantage afforded by their Caucasian blood... Plus, the obvious integration of a family with such a heritage would suggest a more cosmopolitan attitude overall, with less of a focus on genealogy. The media most likely wouldn't even know of their African heritage, so it most likely wouldn't come up.

Now, if said athlete highlighted their African heritage to the media (which seems unlikely given the hypothetical heritage), or if the Grandmother was paraded as being strong influence on the athlete, then the media may have something to say on the matter. Still, in my opinion, less so than if they were an American of obvious and noticeable African heritage.

I still think it is a good thing to celebrate all of an individuals pertinent attributes in a positive light, as (in my opinion) was the case with Gabby.

Hopefully this has somewhat answered your questions, and is of course only my opinion on a hypothetical.

Cheers

reply to post by Milkflavour

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I agree that labels do have a tendency to cause division still, especially where the media is concerned, but in this case I don't see it as divisive, I see it as a celebration of an athletes heritage.

Also, division isn't necessarily a bad thing, since, as you stated, loss of that individuality would be a sad occurrence for humanity.

However noting and cherishing our differences, with varying proud subgroups working in harmony to further the advancement of the human race, is what we are all (hopefully) trying to achieve.

I actually believe that the Olympics, overall, helps with this unity, and celebration of difference.

We'll hopefully get there one day, but currently there are still many recent and continuing situations that cause raw emotions in the arena of "race/ethnicity". It will probably be at least a couple more generations.

Good luck to us all!
;-j

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