Toward Reclaiming Our Birthright, Anarchists Unite!

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Look. Your not going to change my mind and I am not going to change your mind.

So whats the point?

The point is to converse about the topic. However, it seems most of you who support anarchy cannot do so without getting angry, and resorting to name calling an ad homs.

Why get mad at complete strangers on the internet? Its just text on a flickering monitor dude.

What's that? hahaha!

Where did I call you a name?

Who is mad kiddo? It aint me.

I do find a lot of humor in the fact that you throw out the old "you cant read" insult in your last post, and then prove that you, yourself, have issues with comprehension. I never said YOU called a name. You certainly did resort back to the pathetic little ad hom fallacies, though.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman



1)Thanks for answering my questions with questions, proving you cannot answer them at all.
What ever you say your entertaining me right now.
2)Any government has flaws. And the corporatocracy in america is its biggest. Tell me, do you think these corporations would not flex their muscles, if government regulations were removed? If there were no laws protecting the consumer, the worker? You think its bad now, go ahead and remove all the restrictions. You will be indentured to a corporation in no time. NOW THATS FREEDOM.
How? lol. In the last 100 years the leading cause of death was by government $262million.

www.hawaii.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...
But go on...


3)Ahh the typical ad hom cry of anarchists "if you dont agree with me you bow to your masters". Get off your high horse. Teen angst makes people support anarchy. Life experience makes people detest it.
Your too funny right now!...I told you your opinion is your own and my opinion is mine. relax and laugh like I am right now

4)Are you claiming that central planning and funding is not the reason for our power grid, water grid, roadways...?
All can be paid from volunteership and opt-in tax monies by local libertarian communes

Why can't the community afford to pay a contractor to build and maintain roads and infrastructure?
I guess they are too poor.


1)You mean "you're", and YOU'RE still avoiding my questions, and doing a poor job at it. Sad that you are so staunchly entrenched in your stance, yet cannot defend it one bit.

2)Again, way to avoid the point. Do you think, without regulations, corporations would not rape you if it was in their interest? And lets see, you say it was governments that kill people, but its the people who build things. Completely hypocritical statements.

3)Again, you meant "you're". And again, you made the statement, not me. Another instance of making a statement, then running from it.

4)Well, you've officially proven that you do not wish to converse, but rather, want to live in a fantasy land. If they could and would be paid for and built that way, why did it not happen until the government spearheaded it?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


You are a good debator.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


yawn. You still on this thread?

hey. Your right. Feel better now?

Why do you support the idea of a centralized state?

Whats your reasoning?

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

yawn. You still on this thread?

hey. Your right. Feel better now?

Why do you support the idea of a centralized state?

Whats your reasoning?

This conversation is pathetic. If you fell like actually engaging, im all for it. This ad hom nonsense is stupid. I bring up legit questions and points, you dodge, refuse to answer and give ad hom fallacy.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Yet you dodge my last question.

Right....

Ok seeing how you forgot to read or you forget to read my posts. Again.

Why do you think that a centralized government better suits society?

Ignore that one.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

2)Any government has flaws. And the corporatocracy in america is its biggest. Tell me, do you think these corporations would not flex their muscles, if government regulations were removed? If there were no laws protecting the consumer, the worker? You think its bad now, go ahead and remove all the restrictions. You will be indentured to a corporation in no time. NOW THATS FREEDOM.

This is why anarchism can only work with worker ownership.

It is why Anarchism is traditionally socialist, and anti-capitalist.

It is why Anarcho-Capitalism is not a form of anarchism. Capitalism itself is an authority, and as you correctly point out would become the state authority absent government.

The only way to true freedom, true anarchism, is through the workers common ownership of the means of production. This has many advantages, one being the more even distribution of resources. Which keeps a minority class from becoming economically dominant, and thus an authority over the majority.

You might think that freedom is being allowed to use your property any way you wish, which is fair enough, but when you use your property to hire labour you are taking away the employees freedom. Your freedom should not give you the right to take away the freedom of others. But freedom should not have to be enforced, if you need a police force to protect your capital then you are not truly free, but a slave to your property and the state you created. If people really new the truth and were educated about worker ownership, the move from a capitalist industry to a cooperative industry would happen naturally. Capitalism would eventually lose it's monopoly on production and control of the state.

If people had a real choice they would choose worker ownership, because it would be in their best interest.

In a truly free society, where the means of production are freely available for use by anyone who wishes to work, we would simply be able to produce for our needs. Most social problems come from a lack of resources caused by the artificial scarcity of capitalism, a requirement for making profit.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by frazzle

 

On the other hand, without the government, the 'people' would not have been able to build these things on a level to keep up with population growth.

Like our highways? Thats government. Like our dams? thats government. Like a power grid? That government.

the bottom line is, if all it takes is people, why did we not see these advancements until governments came into play?

The government never built any walls besides those they erected between the people and their ability to work together without interference.

Government merely jumped on the chance to grow itself on the backs of the American people's ingenuity, skill and hard work by writing pages full of words limiting what the people could do without government permission.

In building the infrastructure, no one in government ever broke a sweat or a fingernail, it simply selected politically connected corporations to win no bid contracts to build railroads, highways, dams and power grids.

We will never know how much the people could have accomplished in the past 200 plus years without the limiting quasi legal constructs the government continually throws in our path. Who knows, maybe the people wouldn't be broke. Maybe we wouldn't be killing people in ten different countries who have never threatened one hair on our heads. Maybe the bridges wouldn't be in danger of falling down, maybe ~maybe ~ maybe.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Yet you dodge my last question.

Right....

Ok seeing how you forgot to read or you forget to read my posts. Again.

Why do you think that a centralized government better suits society?

Ignore that one.

edit on 8-8-2012 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-8-2012 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)

I really hesitate to engage any of your questions when you refuse to answer any of mine, or even try to have something that resembles a real conversation.

That said, I have already listed many. Not the least of which are population size, and societal advancement. pretty simple.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by frazzle

 

On the other hand, without the government, the 'people' would not have been able to build these things on a level to keep up with population growth.

Like our highways? Thats government. Like our dams? thats government. Like a power grid? That government.

the bottom line is, if all it takes is people, why did we not see these advancements until governments came into play?

The government never built any walls besides those they erected between the people and their ability to work together without interference.

Government merely jumped on the chance to grow itself on the backs of the American people's ingenuity, skill and hard work by writing pages full of words limiting what the people could do without government permission.

In building the infrastructure, no one in government ever broke a sweat or a fingernail, it simply selected politically connected corporations to win no bid contracts to build railroads, highways, dams and power grids.

We will never know how much the people could have accomplished in the past 200 plus years without the limiting quasi legal constructs the government continually throws in our path. Who knows, maybe the people wouldn't be broke. Maybe we wouldn't be killing people in ten different countries who have never threatened one hair on our heads. Maybe the bridges wouldn't be in danger of falling down, maybe ~maybe ~ maybe.

We will never know for sure, but we CAN definitely compare advanced societies, and how they got there. We can also measure the difference in advancement between societies in anarchy, and those with central control.

Both side ridiculously in favor of anarchy being detrimental to society.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


How can anarchism be detrimental?

How?

reply to post by captaintyinknots

We will never know for sure, but we CAN definitely compare advanced societies, and how they got there. We can also measure the difference in advancement between societies in anarchy, and those with central control.

That's where the phrase "power abhors a vacuum" originates. Most people are content to be left alone to make their own way in life and they tend to become careless about maintaining what they see as their inherent right to do so. But whenever and wherever there exists the absense of a centrally organized hierarchy, power hungry individuals (often referred to as sociopaths) will scheme and even kill to fill that vacuum so as to turn that society/culture into an commercial enterprise for their own benefit. All independent successes and accomplishments thereafter are claimed by that hierarchy. This is a historical truth.

Used to be in this country that the sociopaths were tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Then the people got careless.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

How can anarchism be detrimental?

How?

Ive explained numerous times. I do not have the inclination to play your games.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Oh ok.

Just checking.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Oh ok.

Just checking.

its is unfortunate that you refuse to have an ACTUAL conversation here. Hope you pay a little more attention this year when school starts up next month.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I used to troll message boards, 6 years ago. Stopped after hackers started spying me big time.

Your pretty good debater.

What where is your cloned flame bait alias go?

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I used to troll message boards, 6 years ago. Stopped after hackers started spying me big time.

Your pretty good debater.

What where is your cloned flame bait alias go?

Is this english? Not sure.....

So you are an admitted troll. fair enough.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Yep.

Funny delusional statists always think that centralized management is infallible and without it flaws. History doesn't help your case.

There has never been a libertarian dictator/dictatorship in history. But what about all the authoritarian dictators,kings,queens,lords,emperors,presidents etc.A bit more.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Yep.

Funny delusional statists always think that centralized management is infallible and without it flaws. History doesn't help your case.

There has never been a libertarian dictator/dictatorship in history. But what about all the authoritarian dictators,kings,queens,lords,emperors,presidents etc.A bit more.

Please quote for me where I stated anything close to the following as you claim:
-I'm a statist
-I think centralized gov't is infallable
-anything about libertarians

As I said before, if you can have a grown up conversation about this. Then by all means. The lies and ad homs are boring though.

Welcome!

Anyone wishing to discuss ideas for an educational anarchist media campaign (ideas for the content, and modes of delivery of such a campaign) please join me here!

flag.blackened.net...

Many thanks!