Mississippi River Closed Due to Drought

reply to post by CB328


Well, I am not a church goer but respect others for their ways, I thought it was really something that this happened, I have never seen this kind of outpouring before.

reply to post by intrptr


This story just came out,so the msm hasn't had time to consume and regurgitate it yet.

It is worst,in my opinion.
And I feel one of two things will happen.
Either it will be used for political reasons and blown all out of proportion,or it will be ignored and downplayed,like,say,fukushima.

In my personal opinion on this.

The good news is.... It's happened before. It's not necessarily any sign of the end or some once ever event that just wipes everyone out or something.

Ahh.. Lets savor that.. good news..


Now the terrifying possibility. The Dust Bowl years. That drought was worse and went for a looong time. Our food production ability in other areas was better then now, if anything. Large segments of California's Central valley also lay fallow and worthless right now. Look at the Google overheads of the area. It's all dead and has been for a long time. There were little sigs a long the side of the road when I was last out there calling it a congress made dustbowl there.

Now a real drought is hitting...and well, I can't imagine the Dust Bowl length and depth of drought with the massive increase in population to feed and economic conditions no better or worse than they were then.

See..That good news was worth savoring. Even my BIG trees are showing disturbing signs of stress.

I don't know much about rivers, but doesn't the Mississippi start in Minnesota and flow south to the Gulf of Mexico? How can a drought in just one area of the U.S. affect just one part of a river that stretches from Minnesota to Louisiana? The Mississippi isn't a standing body of water like a lake. There is constant motion.

Seems to me that points north of the drought area would be more affected than the drought area itself because more water would have to come down faster to compensate for the loss down south.

Again, I don't know that much about this, but it seems to me that would be the case.

reply to post by kdog1982


Which is should be doing naturally.

reply to post by iwan2ski


I could of made that prediction.

No snow in the country means no water to feed the river. Doesn't take rocket science.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Most of the US is under drought conditions. The largest drought since the Dust Bowl.

The Arkansas River that feeds into the Mississsippi River is very low, they have to keep dredging the River, in order to keep the barges from getting stuck. I havent seen it this low ever. Seems like its become very extreme, either its drought (now) or Flooding later in the year.

The crazy part is this is the same River that a few short months ago was at full capacity and they had to flood people's fields to keep it under control. Now look at it, in a few short months.

You may have to check the stats to see if the river has ever been so close to maximum height then down to its lowest levels in the same calendar year in such a short span of time.

reply to post by kdog1982


Thanks for bringing this up, Kdog. I am in the river industry, and will try to explain a few things to help understand what is happening. First of all, yes we are having problems with low water, all the way from Minneapolis south (Upper Mississippi), Kansas City south (Missouri), Louisville south (Ohio), and St. Louis/Cairo south (Mississippi) to New Orleans. It is not as bad now as it was in 1988.

On the barge groundings and river closures, that is standard practice in low water. If a barge goes aground, the boat gets it off ground and the Corps of Engineers surveys to find the correct channel, and then the Coast Guard marks the channel. The river will be closed while this is going on. If there is a problem with not enough water, then a dredge is moved to the spot to open the channel. This can take a few days, but it is something we deal with. The river has a good history of "scouring" out its channel, as long as there isn't a rapid rise/fall. We have had a gradual fall due to lack of rain, so things aren't "desperate" by any means, but serous none the less. August has always been the lowest month for river levels, so it's not something earth shattering to see it occurring. Drought, of course, is playing a part, and the toll it is taking on the corn crop will cause prices to go through the roof. Corn was over $8 a bushel this week, and things that depend on that as a base are going to go up in the next few months for sure.

Just a couple of notes: one poster mentioned we had high water/low water this year, and I want to correct him a bit here. St. Louis (where I am), we have flood stage at 30 feet. We reached 20 feet twice for a couple of days in late March and again in early May, which is not bad. Last year we were over 20 feet from March until September, so I would say last year was a relatively high year. In 1986 we had flood stages that shut the river down, and then in 1988 we had the drought that severely restrict river traffic. So there is a pattern that happens.

We are now also beginning the active hurricane season, which if it happens properly, will bring moisture into the gulf, through Texas and up into the midwest. If it works properly. It will also be too late for the corn crop, so we'll just have to deal with rising prices there.

I can give updates as needed here, just so everyone has knowledge of what is really going on. The press, once they latch onto it, will sensationalize it.

reply to post by Liv07


This season is beyond help. I think even if we got liberal rainfall for 3-4 days a week for the rest of the season, it would still not be enough to save this year's harvest.

reply to post by zaggan


You seem to be the person to bring this up with, as far as I can see. I managed to find some data on the Missouri River basin, and Fort Peck as well as quite a few other reservoirs seem to be at 95 to 100% capacity? And are some of the largest in terms of capacity. Are they holding back? I seem to remember that as they head into fall/winter, they would lower the levels to 80% capacity or so. I guess I could be reading the data incorrectly, so further input would be greatly appreciated! And if this is the case, why wouldn't they be releasing more water as some of the others appear to be doing.

Right at the top of this list.
www.nwd-mr.usace.army.mil...

This goes for other posters as well, as I know I've seen great info and data/links for these reservoirs when there was concern in the recent past about the integrity of some of them, and their ability to handle being at or even above capacity.

Also, haven't at least some of these barges gotten bigger and heavier, therefore causing more problems in time of drought?

Somewhat of a newbie here, more of a lurker for data and link gathering.

reply to post by wlf15y


Yes, the reservoirs are in good shape, but numerous lawsuits by states to hold water for recreational use during the summer has made it very difficult to manage flow rates for navigation. Usually when it gets bad enough, they can use emergency powers to release water, but it will take two weeks to get to St. Louis. And then we have the least terns and piping plovers to deal with, and releasing a lot of water can affect their nesting on the sandbars. The Missouri River water management system is very complex. The good news is that we do have good water in the reservoirs now, as we did not in 1988, and the objections from recreational users will not be as bad.

Don't get me wrong, recreational use has great benefit to the local economies, it's just that everything has to be balanced. I'm more concerned with what's happening to the crops at the moment. I'm mentally trying to push Tropical Depression 5 across into the Gulf, lol, and hopefully into the Midwest.

Sorry, missed the last part of your post. Yes, barges have been built bigger lately. However, 12 foot hulled barges are still mostly what is used, and the 14 foot barges (the bigger ones) are not used above St. Louis due to lack of water above here. In any event, all of these barges are under restriction to load 9 feet only, even the 14 foot ones.

Yet there is excessive flooding in Vicksburg, MS on the mississippi river. Strange indeed...

Originally posted by zaggan
reply to post by wlf15y

 

Thanks for your quick reply!



"I'm mentally trying to push Tropical Depression 5 across into the Gulf, lol, and hopefully into the Midwest."

Lol..you and me both. Hopefully we don't end up with the same situation where they held on to too much water in the reservoirs, and then have another "record" (whatever that is) winter snowfall.

And if this isn't an "emergency," I don't know what is, I guess.....

edit on 3-8-2012 by wlf15y because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-8-2012 by wlf15y because: (no reason given)

reply to post by kdog1982


Stock up on food. Food prices will be insane by next year. No crops means an increase in grocery prices especially when you consider how little corn there will be this year. Corn is in EVERYTHING. Buyer beware. Stock up.

Wanted to share a couple of pics I took this afternoon. These are from SE Missouri, looking into IL:

Crud...gimme a bit...can't get this thing to use my pics. Gonna try to upload them here...

maybe got it now...





And, here's a barge:

Originally posted by liejunkie01
Here is a recent photo of the river.

An aerial photo of the Mississippi river shows sandy areas where water had been before the drought. The river's levels are now nearing record lows

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers will spend nearly $7 million dredging in an attempt to keep ports operational and keep the river open for barge traffic in the coming weeks. River levels in Memphis have dropped to within three feet of their historic lows from the 1988 drought.

In just one year, the river has gone through extreme fluctuation. Last May, it was within a foot of its record-high crest because of massive flooding, and today it’s 55 feet lower and experiencing historic lows due to drought..

link

The good news is that it is raining here in southern Illinois,,,,yeah

Now it just needs to rain steady for a few days.

This post reminded me of something I read back in 2007.

2008: God's Final Witness
link www.the-end.com...

The Third Thunder

In terms of an economic impact on property, and even loss of
life, one of the most destructive forces that is taking a dramatic
turn for the worse is being caused by an escalating change in
our weather. Some will argue that the current weather
conditions are a reflection of normal cycles of change over
time. It is true that the weather follows cycles. Yes, there have
always been times of intensity when destructive powers have
been unleashed. However, now is different because the
destructiveness and change in weather patterns is going to
continue to increase dynamically, not following normal
patterns.

Some areas will experience abnormally large amounts of
rainfall, while others, that normally receive large amounts, will
receive none. The consequences of this will be a marked increase in
flooding and mudslides in some areas, while other areas will
experience growing problems with drought, which as we have seen
this past year, results in widespread fires and extensive damage to
livestock and crops. Some areas will experience normal amounts of
rain, but it will come at the wrong time to benefit agriculture. Too
much cold and too much heat at the wrong time will also add to this
destructive power.

Those who have their livelihood in agriculture
have always had to contend with such things, but over the next
couple of years these conditions will become the worst yet!

It is crazy to think about a river being at it's highest ever level to its lowest ever level in one year's time. Great picture of the River too. Amazing!

God Bless,

Got the pics added to my previous post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Wanted to add...the river here in SE Missouri is currently at 9.1 feet and going down

reply to post by zaggan

Thanks for bringing this up, Kdog. I am in the river industry, and will try to explain a few things to help understand what is happening. First of all, yes we are having problems with low water, all the way from Minneapolis south (Upper Mississippi), Kansas City south (Missouri), Louisville south (Ohio), and St. Louis/Cairo south (Mississippi) to New Orleans. It is not as bad now as it was in 1988.

Thanks for that,zaggan


I have been around the Ohio River for about 10 years,so I don't know much about the history.
I'm use to tides.

And thanks for that info.

Looks like we are not out of the woods yet as far as the drought goes.

This is the prediction through October...........




www.drought.gov...;jsessionid=B7A2DE6A0537BA8C4C73ED12CC95187C