The Problem with Greer

reply to post by CiAlice


No, I'm not accusing ATS of having a bias. But I will say that I am disappointed my thread was taken down for reasons that aren't clear to me.

The reasons stated to me through U2U weren't on target, except for the claim that I didn't use Ex-text. (That could have easily been remedied by asking me to put the text of the email into Ex-Text.)

So, no. I can't accuse the mods of being biased. I can only say I was confused about their decision and disappointed.

I wrote a big long rant on why this op and most of the contributor's have been baiting, but I deleted it like I usually do when I have vented some steam. The rated G version is who cares..really who cares? There are a million different personalities hawking their ideas, it's called capitalism, and it's a wonderful thing!

Originally posted by MRuss
reply to post by CiAlice

 

No, I'm not accusing ATS of having a bias. But I will say that I am disappointed my thread was taken down for reasons that aren't clear to me.

The reasons stated to me through U2U weren't on target, except for the claim that I didn't use Ex-text. (That could have easily been remedied by asking me to put the text of the email into Ex-Text.)

So, no. I can't accuse the mods of being biased. I can only say I was confused about their decision and disappointed.

I would suggest that the email is an issue of copyright. Once Greer wrote it, he owned the rights to it and, in a sense, you and ATS were compliant (conspiratorial) in violating his entitlement.

Why ATS used the rather nonsensical "Greer-A-Thon" or "recruitment for Greer" issues to squash your threads is beyond me.

I will not be replying to anything in this thread, I just want to reiterate some things I have posted in the past. This will be my only post in this thread because I very much dislike arguing on this subject.


I think many people are a bit too harsh when it comes to Greer. Sure he has made a few mistakes (the moth thing being the most well known)... but I mean who in the UFO field hasn't made a mistake or jumped to a false conclusion at least once in their time. Considering the extreme length of time Dr. Greer has been involved in this line of work I would say his track record isn't really too bad. And his theories about aliens are often much more believable than the "aliens are evil demons set to invade us at any moment". He has a much more benevolent take on their motives and why they choose not to intervene in our affairs, many of my theories are extremely similar to those of Dr. Greer.

Not to mention he brought us things like The Disclosure Project, which is still to this day the single most important UFO documentary ever made. The shills must be very happy with themselves that they've managed to attach such a negative image to Greer, because great work like The Disclosure Project now carries the same stigma and gets buried away. Yes it is true he doesn't produce anything of value anymore, he only cares about money, which has not helped his reputation. And he has already done an outstanding job at making all his work completely meaningless. It's amazing how well he started off, only to come tumbling down right to the bottom. It's done nothing but damage the entire disclosure effort, and made us all look like charlatans.

Sure, Dr. Greer seems to care more about money than disclosure these days, but he is still one of the original spokesman of disclosure and his efforts have gone a long way in convincing many people we are not alone. The problem with many skeptics is that once they debunk one thing, they think they've debunked all things related to it. Skeptics often use that same logic for the entire UFO subject, they take all the hoaxes and all the crazy people, and they use them to proclaim that all sightings must be the work of hoaxers or crazy people, or simply natural phenomena. Despite the fact a large number of cases remain completely unexplained and can't be placed into any of those categories, despite the number of people and despite the position of those people, even if those people are astronauts, they are ALL still crazy or conmen.

I will always hold a level of respect for Dr. Greer because he was one of the original instigators of disclosure and his early films really did help plunge the subject of disclosure into the public spot light and force people to really take a serious look at the ET situation. And perhaps his new film will be interesting and present new testimony or evidence, or perhaps it will be a total pile of crap... I'm still going to watch it and find out for myself (assuming it will be free to watch). Out of all the true charlatans Greer is far from the worste one, yet he is treated as if he is the worste one, which I find suspect and illogical. I also find the timing of this thread suspect, and all the content presented is merely rehashed information which has been posted a million and one times.

Everyone is so quick to make jokes and ridicule the man for his mistakes, meanwhile forgetting everything he has done for the exopolitical community. Perhaps if we were less judgmental Greer might have remained a solid asset to the exopolitical community and wouldn't be treating us like we tend to treat him. Greer is a human like the rest of us, everybody makes mistakes... yes he mistook a moth for an alien, but that doesn't make him the evil villain we paint him to be. It's funny how we're all so quick to crucify him and discount everything he's ever accomplished. Obviously it's hard to trust him anymore, but I think it's important we refrain from throwing the baby out with the bath water. Not everything he ever did is worthless, but the goal is to make it seem that way.

reply to post by MRuss

Thank you, MRuss. Eloquently and bravely said.

And in general...

I don't appreciate the chiding, pat-on-the-head tone of those who criticize Dr. Greer, as well as scorning anyone who doesn't criticize him. I say Doctor Greer because when I met him he was most assuredly a medical doctor, and that was his primary profession. He was in the process of making UFO research his life and livelihood. He was a polite and intelligent person, friendly and sociable. I really liked both him and his wife, though I don't claim anything more than a brief introduction. I admit many people we knew in common were raising eyebrows at his 'hobby' becoming his life-path. He had an address in the absolute best part of town, he had kids to put through college, he had an established and respected career (yes, respected.) These are facts. Frankly, we thought he was into "weird" stuff, and shrugged our shoulders in both disbelief and a mutual thought of "well, he's a smart man, I guess he knows what he's doing..." A few years later he pulled off the 2001 Press Conference, which really was a brave thing to do. He's also had some cringe-worthy moments, too.

The problem with Greer? He is a fallible, flawed and all-too-human individual, this is true. Heck, so am I! I understand the criticisms and I won't defend his mistakes and over-reaches. I don't have a problem with this at all, as he has put himself in a position of making extraordinary claims; scrutiny is to be expected. So go ahead, evaluate him on his merits and demerits. I'm quite sure there are people here who know far more about ufos than I do, and I'm very willing to listen to objective discussions of things and hopefully learn a lot from the wealth of experience here at ATS. But as someone who sees him as a person who was successful and respected waaay before the "ufo thing," the complete mockery and sweeping negative generalizations/diagnoses are galling and diminish the arguments being made. I'm not going to shred him to pieces as a human being. I wouldn't do that to any of you here, either, and not just because of the T&C.

peace,
AB

You know what blows me away?

I actually met his wife and kids at a CSETI outing. They all seemed nice enough. Man, are they all in on it also? A family of scammers?

I am so glad you made this post, and I am astounded at the response.

I discovered Greer a long time ago, way before the Disclosure Project. The whole story with him just puzzles me.

I mean, he is not some type of poor, "loser" who needs to pull off some outrageous scam to make money. He was after all an ER doctor and probably made a decent salary (or so we think). If he is a scammer, I cannot fathom how anybody can be so creative and go to such great lengths to pull such a elaborate and detailed scam. Even if he did profit from this whole charade somehow, I mean *WOW* such a great effort it took. His Disclosure Project alone took years to organize.

One thing is for sure (though I have not confirmed myself, so maybe I cannot say I am sure).. is that many of those people in the Disclosure Project were the real deal. Wasn't that guy from the FAA the real deal?

And if he is scamming, I mean what is his motive? Why Disclosure Project?

I must say from the many experiences I have had with him, and also personally, spending weeks with the guy, I have mixed opinions. It is really hard to believe his whole story.

Like others here have mentioned, what threw me off the most was when he was taking money for investment into his zero point energy company. In the beginning you hear all these hopeful announcements, and news of progress, and then later his announcements grew further apart, until ultimately there was only silence. uhhh, what the heck happened?!

So anyway here are my possible verdicts:

1) Maybe he is not a scammer, but a person who holds many false views, mixed with things which are true. Indeed he holds some views which are true. He certainly has said some really intelligent things, and expressed views which I wholeheartedly agree with, on the other hand he has stated some ridiculous things (or so I believe).

2) He is some kind of hired/commissioned disinformation agent who at the same time sees an opportunity to make some money. Maybe he is down with some of these "cremation of care" of care people who don't give a damn about anything but their own profit.

I don't know.. it's hard to believe that anyone could pull such an elaborate scam, but then you look at some these Christian preachers and then you think, 'yeah, you know, I guess it is possible that somebody could pull a scam like that.'.

But honestly I really don't know what is the case.

just a suggestion to the mods.
delete this thread just like the one from last night.

ufology doesn't need people like greer
greer needs ufology.
he needs to feed his ego, his wallet and his libido.
i whole heartily believe in the man during the disclosure project days.
at best he is a snake oil salesman.
at worst he is a government shill disinfo agent.
either way he not to be trusted.
people want to have an experience so bad ever after all his hoaxing they still shell out money
to go on camping trips.
now he needs MORE money???
ambulance chasers make me sick.
..
.

So would I be right in saying that your intelligence work in the CIA and NRO gave you the knowledge / proof that they are here?

And then you paid Mr Greer to see / meet them? If you do indeed have that background then you didn't learn much did you.

Greer is like religion, the worlds greatest sales pitch; "Believe in me and live forever".

This is just my personal opinion, and I fully admit that I haven't met Steven Greer personally. I also have never personally attended any of his seminars. With that being said, when I stumbled upon the Disclosure Project and CSETI I was highly intrigued. I'm not one who necessarily disregards possibilities just because it's not in the MSM. This is partly what led me to this community. I very much seek out alternative media and information sources whenever possible. After all information is information, nothing more, nothing less. It is up to the individual what they do with it.Unfortunately, my bull$@#$ radar went off the charts after listening to him for about 15 mins. Even with that case I continued to listen to his lectures and seminars, and read testimonies to his services (some positive, many negative). Just because I view someones personality in a negative manner does not mean their information is not relevant or true. After a certain amount of time and research my initial conclusions remained. Steven Greer is an @$$hole plain and simple. I don't need a degree in psychology to tell me that. Now people can call him a sociopath, a con artist, or however they would like to describe him. In layman's terms he's an @$$hole, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. There has been a good portion of individuals who paid for his services who have that exact same sentiment.Does the abrasiveness of Greer's personality discredit the stories of the people who were presented at that initial Press Club conference? No, of course not. It does somewhat diminish their stories to a certain extent though.The biggest red flag for me was that he conveniently lives about a hundred miles from D.C. Practicing medicine in that specific area he could of easily established some higher level connections within government. This is something that I never hear anyone mention as a possibility. Do I see D.C. connections as an absolute truth? No, but living in such close proximity it isn't very far of a leap to get there, and not out of the realm of possibility. I am someone who thinks there is a possibility in extra terrestrial presence. There is a good amount of evidence that suggests the possibility. I just don't buy Greer's personal schtick.

reply to post by schuyler

Perhaps most of all, he NEVER follows through. Whether it’s a zero point energy device that will save the world or a Meet & Greet with a live alien, or an expensive “DNA analysis,” it just never quite happens, though it will Real Soon Now. And it’s not as if we haven’t given him time. It’s been over ten years.

Never heard of him. Now I have... thanks for the heads up. That bit above is what did it for me. There are always the long list of contacts and amazing technology, but not one bit or piece of actual evidence. If aliens are people too then they make mistakes right?

Hey abductees, next time you are aboard look on the shelf and slip something in your pocket like an ashtray or drinking glass. You know some tangible alien utensil we can all google at?

Originally posted by MRuss

I was the OP earlier today whose thread was removed (for reasons that don't make any sense to me. My source was an email to me from Greer, which I pasted, since I couldn't link to it, and there was no solicitious requests in my thread, etc. etc.) And yet, it was removed.

The email was effectively a request for money by Greer which is why the thread was removed. Following the links identified is as part of his pyramid scheme. His double-pronged crowd funding venture has brought in around $300,000 but the email he sent you was a request for more which is rather strange as the money they received has exceeded their funding target.

A Sirius related video suggest the use of social networking to lure in further donators and Greer writes, "We will need your help with funding... Tell everyone you know-now." Asking donators to recruit another level of donators is the basis of the pyramid scheme.

And here's a recent comment from Greer's begging blog

I financially support the SIRIUS campaign and look forward to watching the movie especially for the EBE. I will do as you requested and spread the word on this highly important initiative to freinds

I can't see why everyone thinks Dr Greer tries to deceive. "unfortunately" I purchased a couple of his CD's. And I suppose in one way this was good because he describes how to meditate using some sort of ..... is mantra the right word??? and I'm POSITIVE he is saying "I don't know, I don't know" over and over again. So you see, he IS up front. He has told everybody "I don't know" but none of us had picked it up.

But seriously, he's as mentioned before, someone who came across as setting up something really profound (disclosure 2001) and managed to turn it into rubbish.

One last point, after I picked up his "I don't know" message, I contacted people here in Aust. offering them the use of our 1100 acres to come and make contact, set up a secret secure place for the little buggers, whatever, and guess what??? Deafening silence was the reply


Big BOOs to Dr Greer from my end.

Dr. Greer has had a long history as a person who has meditated. I think this is one reason he became a focal point
for ET and free energy info and its dissemination.

KUDOS TO GREER FOR HIS work and attempts to allow free energy to be FREE.

At his MAY 2001 press conference where many of the former government, academic and corporate world professionals people came out in the open - it was the biggest audience ever to hear an Internet broadcast at the time.

Google to find: The Disclosure Project May 9th 2001 National Press Club Conference.

~~~ ** ~~~ His writing and lectures describe how we could have had food, energy and medical care for all the world's people - but the methods for these were suppressed. ~~~ ** ~~~

OH YEAH! 9/11 happened a couple months after the DISCLOSURE PROJECT PRESS CONFERENCE.

Back to the geo-political oil scheme agendas of yesteryear and G-O-D - Gold (guns) Oil and Drugs.

Forward ho to curtailing of our freedom and deceiving the American people to getting involved in a bunch of new messy wars.

It is easy to sit back and criticize Greer but he suspended a lucrative profession (12+ years as an ER physician)
to interview the 100 former govt., biz and academic professionals about the reality of ETs - using his Apple-Mac laptop
to make 120+ hours of video interviews and condense them into a few hours. Like many people, he has several children to support while he does this work that does NOT involve a regular paycheck.

I heard Greer speak three times and a group of about 20 of us had dinner with him. He told us that he and two of his friends, one a woman, one a man, had been _given_ cancer after which both of these colleagues died. He survived he said with the help of Essiac Tea and prayers of hundreds of people.

I have learned from independent sources that the guv CAN give one cancer, and like Greer said at a lecture- as an ER doctor, he saw people risk their lives because of driving while drinking. He has put his life on the line to get out the word about free energy, energy from the plenum and the reality of ET intelligence.

If one reads books like THE COMING ENERGY REVOLUTION by Jeane Manning and BREAKTHROUGH POWER
by J. Manning and Joel Garbon, one will find that many new energy, infinite energy inventors have been harassed, threatened and worse. It has been extremely difficult for them to access venture capital. I personally have met three scientists who have had their labs trashed. Also see the writings of David Wilcock.

He points out in one book that any planet that develops nuclear capability has to evolve to peaceful
coexistence - otherwise they might destroy their planet and nuclear incidents DO cause negative waves to the other planetary beings.

If you are not part of the solution - are you part of the problem? I cannot wait to see the movie he is working on.

BTW, what are you doing to help Turtle Island? Not much if you have time to sit around and dis this great man - a true PATRIOT.

I can't decide whether he is genuine or disinfo agent.
I recently watched this and still have doubts

www.youtube.com...

Here's Greer in '94 (according to the title) hustling some poor souls out in the desert. You have to admire his shtick as he advises them what to do 'in the event of boarding the craft.'

Apparently they can't all jump aboard because someone has to stay behind and look after the flash-lights and sandwiches.

I haven't read much about Greer since his initial outburst/pouring in 2001. But am I understanding all those ex military, science types and testimonies etc were all bogus? I was suspicious as 9/11 happened very shortly after, which I thought was to divert attention away from his NPC event.

What a shame if it is.

It is perfectly normal for the undercover ATS'rs to post threads like this just when something important/significant is going to happen in the near future. It makes us all think twice about someone we trust, shake it off, don't fall for it. Dr Greer is real, and honest, ive done my research too.

reply to post by schuyler

the disclosure project is not about Greer

Originally posted by The GUT
I truly experience mind-boggling moments when I try and comprehend how a person can tell such blatant whoppers and still look at himself in the mirror.

Greer suffers from more than greed...there's some kind of extremely sick pathology going on there as well.

Greer is performing a necessary service; he's vetting spiritual (or evolutionary) aspirants. The gullible (read: victim-mindedness-oriented) must not be allowed to come into contact with the Real Thing. His little sideshow does wonders to attract the not-ready-for-the-truth-yet-insistent-that-they-are crowd, and keep them enthralled.

I suggest he knows that he is performing a necessary service, and this knowledge enables him to lie with a straight face.