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The Problem with Greer

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posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by AboveBoard
I don't think the hotels are in the picture at all. And I agree, the tinting would be universal, but I am not a photography expert, so if someone wants to present a photo of selective tinting, and can explain the process with the camera you say was used that may be something.

Okay, AB, here ya go.

I haven't been able to upload pics since ATS went to the new beta uploader so I'm trying photobucket for the first time, but this is a quick example of a double exposure with the color balance manipulated on each "layer." I did it on my iphone with a camera app called Fusion.

They are both the same candle shot from just about the same spot. I took the first pic with one white balance. It stayed on the screen and I changed the white balance and put the first "frozen" image next to the candle in the viewfinder and snapped again.

The software then processed them into one picture, but you will notice the color is different. Same candle a few seconds apart. Especially note the "orange" coloration of the candle on the left of the image.

Hope that somewhat demonstrates the concept.

i1163.photobucket.com...






edit on 12-8-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by fah0436
 

I sure don't get what you guys are seeing.


I've tried to make it a bit easier to see here.





Can you see now how the contours of the condos match the flow of the "orbs"? The match isn't exact because the photos where taken from different locations and angles even though it is the same view of the hotels on Tigertail beach. However, the match is beyond reasonable doubt.

It doesn't matter if the hotels weren't behind you when the photo of the group was taken. Double exposure is a possibility as demonstrated by The Gut. Image manipulation on a pc is another possibility as you've only been given a print off. You don't have the original digital image with the crucial exif data. Another big clue as to the veracity of the photo is that the people who have taken the shot and provided you with the print off are known hoaxers.

I'll repeat - you've been duped!



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by squarehead666

BTW - You appear to be in breach of your Disclosure Project non-disclosure agreement (that does make me laugh), so expect Mr. Greer's lawyers to be in touch.


I doubt Greer (despite his greed) would want to take a CSETI participant to court. Fah could argue that there were serious doubts about the integrity of the CSETI set-up and counter sue Greer for fraud. The Tigerbeach photo could be presented as evidence and the mothra and tree branch photos used as back-up evidence showing that the fraud is long-standing and ongoing.

I'd sue for $2,000,000 (he can afford it) but give Greer the opportunity of regaining his credibility by vectoring extraterrestrial ambassadors into the court room as witnesses. He may succeed and the judge will drop his gavel, pick up a guitar and sing kumbaya prior to sentencing fah to 30 years- but somehow I doubt that will happen!



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by torsion
 


OMG...that made me spit my coffee...but, it was worth it...really....


Des



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by AboveBoard
I don't think the hotels are in the picture at all. And I agree, the tinting would be universal, but I am not a photography expert, so if someone wants to present a photo of selective tinting, and can explain the process with the camera you say was used that may be something.

Okay, AB, here ya go.

I haven't been able to upload pics since ATS went to the new beta uploader so I'm trying photobucket for the first time, but this is a quick example of a double exposure with the color balance manipulated on each "layer." I did it on my iphone with a camera app called Fusion.

They are both the same candle shot from just about the same spot. I took the first pic with one white balance. It stayed on the screen and I changed the white balance and put the first "frozen" image next to the candle in the viewfinder and snapped again.

The software then processed them into one picture, but you will notice the color is different. Same candle a few seconds apart. Especially note the "orange" coloration of the candle on the left of the image.

Hope that somewhat demonstrates the concept.

i1163.photobucket.com...






edit on 12-8-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)


Hey The GUT - I realized after I posted that ya'll had discussed this - and like I said, I'm no photography expert! So thanks for the extra clarification. I started my post, became distracted by Real Life and then by looking at the photos again very carefully. So by the time I hit "reply" and saw the posts above mine, you guys had already mentioned how the double exposure and tinting might work. I do appreciate the effort at clarification, however, as it is ALWAYS good to learn something! :-)

peace,
- AB



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
It cant be proven with certainty one way or the other Greer is doing his Ufo Disclosure things for the money or not. It also cant be said with any certainty one way or other if Ufos exist. What appears certain gauging by the existance of Ats and other similar forums there are open conspiracies in place to convince people ufo exists. Of course everyone has their own opinions, and personally i think Greer is an Alien who is using Disclosure to cover his indentity.


Greer conversation has gone from "Great Guy" to "fraud" to "alien" to "pedophile" in less than a day!

Might be a record in dysfunctionality on a forum.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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just saw this on youtube with supposed picture of alien.


edit on 12-8-2012 by zigoapex because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by AboveBoard

As to a double exposure with a filter only on the first with the hotels visible and tinted red, well then the people wouldn't be red-ish either. If, as you indicated, the hotels are South from the Tiger Tail beach, which is on the eastern, ocean side of the island, wouldn't that put them on the right-hand side of the photo, and any errant hotel lights??? Just another thought... I have no idea where the comparison picture has been taken, or what direction, do you? Which makes trying to match them a moot point, but I tried...

peace,
AB


Well - no one caught my mistake! But I did!!! Apologies - I am dyslexic and had Marco Island's position all flipped around in my head. I now understand which direction everything is and that the hotels would be in the left hand side of the photo IF they were in it. ;-)

peace,
AB



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by WhamBam
reply to post by ButtPain
 



You are so right about Dr Greer - he is being used by "the NWO, Illuminati, or puppet masters etc", I personally think that he has been deceived by them and that he truly believes that he has been in contact with aliens - (and he probably has had these experiences, only it was with demonic forces which we fully do not understand yet). ALREADY! Millions of people have known all this information.

There is a long and consistent history of people who would agree with your statement. One thing is for sure. Neither the NWO, TPTB or Steven Greer give a flying fook what ATS has to say about anything Greer related.


I think you are correct. It's puzzling, then, why so many sock puppet accounts suddenly spring up and rush to the Greer threads in an attempt to "defend" him with ad hominem attacks against anyone who puts forth a serious argument. They have only a few posts to their name, immediately find and compliment each other, and offer nothing to further to thread save for a basic worship of Greer. They are obviously quite familiar wiith ATS and are here for one thing only--to disrupt the Greer threads.

One of these guys, in a rush, apparently, to "put me in my place" and suggest my removal, even accused me of slandering him in a post I wrote BEFORE he registered!

So if it doesn't matter, why the sock puppet defenders? It should be unnecessary.

Edit to add. I DO NOT include fah in this description. He has made substantial contributions to this thread and you have to admire his tenacity whether you agree with him or not.
edit on 8/12/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by The GUT
 


I totally agree with you GUT. He's nuttier than my fruitcake recipe.....

Des


And fruitier than a nutcake recipe.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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Hey ya'll,

Another point about the photo. I know, I know - I keep coming back to it!

I see what is being said in regards to the contour of the "orb" lights in comparison to the hotel horizon outline, and they are similar, however, one thing really has been bothering me and I couldn't put my finger on it until I searched around again for awhile -

there is no reflection on the water of the "hotel lights."

Marco Island at Night with City Lights:


So, I respectfully submit again, that these are not simply the hotel lights in the background - the line of sight is wrong based on the location of the photo and there is no light reflecting on the water, which the above link demonstrates. (In fact, the bottom of the "orbs" look more like the bottom of a cloud with the light going upwards and not downwards.) This also means it is not a simple double exposure using multiple filters.

So what is it/are they? The options, imo, narrow to two basic ones: 1) the photo is real and shows a mysterious phenomena, or 2) there's been a whole lot of photoshopping going on.

This leads me to the conclusion that unless we were to get the original photo or digital file (assuming it was taken on a digital camera - I don't think the camera was named) this photo remains neither 100% validated nor 100% debunked. But that's just me...

peace,
AB



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by AboveBoard
Hey ya'll,

Another point about the photo. I know, I know - I keep coming back to it!

I see what is being said in regards to the contour of the "orb" lights in comparison to the hotel horizon outline, and they are similar, however, one thing really has been bothering me and I couldn't put my finger on it until I searched around again for awhile -

there is no reflection on the water of the "hotel lights."


The photo in your link was taken with an expanse of water between the photographer and the hotels which is why you see the reflections. The CSETI photo was taken on the same beach that the hotels are on. As it was taken during a very low tide (based on fah's time and date) and, due to the position and angle the shot was taken from, it is likely there was nothing but sand below the hotels, therefore no water surface to reflect on.

Deceitful photo editing could also apply. Fah states that he wasn't shown the photo until 30 minutes after it was taken. If the photo was genuine they would have drawn immediate attention to it, shown it within seconds of taking it and tried to observe the phenomena and take more photos. The 30-minute delay adds to the ever increasing mound of evidence that CSETI/Greer is a fraud.

Here's a 360 video of the same beach which gives you an idea of how far out the tide can go. The hotels /"Greer's orbs" can be seen at the 19 sec mark.


edit on 13-8-2012 by torsion because: added video



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by AboveBoard
Hey ya'll,

Another point about the photo. I know, I know - I keep coming back to it!

I see what is being said in regards to the contour of the "orb" lights in comparison to the hotel horizon outline, and they are similar, however, one thing really has been bothering me and I couldn't put my finger on it until I searched around again for awhile -

there is no reflection on the water of the "hotel lights."


The photo in your link was taken with an expanse of water between the photographer and the hotels which is why you see the reflections. The CSETI photo was taken on the same beach that the hotels are on. As it was taken during a very low tide (based on fah's time and date) and, due to the position and angle the shot was taken from, it is likely there was nothing but sand below the hotels, therefore no water surface to reflect on.

Deceitful photo editing could also apply. Fah states that he wasn't shown the photo until 30 minutes after it was taken. If the photo was genuine they would have drawn immediate attention to it, shown it within seconds of taking it and tried to observe the phenomena and take more photos. The 30-minute delay adds to the ever increasing mound of evidence that CSETI/Greer is a fraud.

Here's a 360 video of the same beach which gives you an idea of how far out the tide can go. The hotels /"Greer's orbs" can be seen at the 19 sec mark.


edit on 13-8-2012 by torsion because: added video


Hello torsion!
I do understand that the photo I presented was an ideal situation - and I went back and looked up the tides, which were definitely on the low end, as you said. I guess my main point was that for a simple double-exposure, there would be other artifacts in the merged photo - ghosting, reflections, etc. (Even a wet beach will have some reflection, much less though) The stars would look wrong, too, if there was some kind of simple overlay of images (either ghosted or there would be stars in the wrong places). I guess I think it would be more obvious. My limited research may prove me wrong, however - there are cool things that can be done with multi-exposures!

Without re-creating a multi-image photo at night and at low tide from the same location, or without having the original shot, it is not possible to determine if it has been messed with or not, imo. I also didn't see anything obvious, like a cut-and-paste pixilation. Without knowing what kind of camera it was (iphone with clever apps or some other kind of digital camera) we are missing key data to determine if it was possible to photoshop it in 30 mins or not. Did fah say he saw it on a computer or on the camera screen itself?? That may also indicate something...

I'm not an expert in photography, and I don't know enough about star-charts to determine if the stars are weird from an overlay. Do you know where I could find this information? Or does someone here have that ability?

Anyway - thanks for your response. I'm not trying to make this go one way or the other - I'm mostly interested in being very thorough - I think fah deserves that as well as the topic in general (regardless of source).

Thank you for sticking with me on this!!

peace to you,
AB



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by The Coward
The problem with Greer, is that if he is correct, you will be a fool!

Ha! He may be a little crazy, but you are crazier thinking you will find any truth in ATS about him.


I don't understand. do you concur that Dr. Steven Greer is a pedophile..or not?



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by AboveBoard

... I think fah deserves that as well as the topic in general (regardless of source).

Thank you for sticking with me on this!!

peace to you,
AB


I agree and my intention isn't to have a go at Fah, he's been an asset to this thread. I see him as an unfortunate victim of Greer and I hope he will learn from what he reads here.

We'll never get to the bottom of the photo in question because we don't have the original digital file but there's no doubt in my mind that the orbs are the hotels. It may be a double-exposure, photoshop trickery, or a single shot taken when the seated participants had the hotels at their backs as can be seen in the shot. Maybe CSETI staff placed the chairs there for that very reason. Simply move them to a different position before you show them the photo half an hour later, just in case they check over their shoulders.

Nor am I convinced the white specks in the photo are actually stars. (Greeneyedleo didn't come back with the star chart which may have helped clarify things!)

If Fah returns maybe he could tell us of the actions and behaviour of the CSETI staff throughout the evening. We don't often get insider reports.

As for the helicopter that so impressed the group Marco airport is only 5 miles away and has 2 helicopters present.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by ButtPain

KatTeats, you are so right about Dr Greer - he is being used by "the NWO, Illuminati, or puppet masters etc", I personally think that he has been deceived by them and that he truly believes that he has been in contact with aliens - (and he probably has had these experiences, only it was with demonic forces which we fully do not understand yet). ALREADY! Millions of people have known all this information.


It is the common ploy for these PTB to spread disinformation (such as in this thread the assertion "Steven Greer is a pedophile" is possibly such disinformation) so you may be on to something there, ButtPain!



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by ReallyNiceGuy
It is the common ploy for these PTB to spread disinformation (such as in this thread the assertion "Steven Greer is a pedophile" is possibly such disinformation) so you may be on to something there, ButtPain!

Who has used the word "pedophile" here, but you? Whoever it was should probably be banned barring any evidence to the contrary.

Most of us posting here are discussing the evidence that Greer is not adverse to bamboozling folk for fun & profit.

I, for one, have no evidence nor do I believe that the man is anything other than that: A fraud.

Any other accusation should have some basis in reality or it shouldn't be mentioned.

I'm calling sock skunk.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by ReallyNiceGuy
It is the common ploy for these PTB to spread disinformation (such as in this thread the assertion "Steven Greer is a pedophile" is possibly such disinformation) so you may be on to something there, ButtPain!

Who has used the word "pedophile" here, but you? Whoever it was should probably be banned barring any evidence to the contrary.

Most of us posting here are discussing the evidence that Greer is not adverse to bamboozling folk for fun & profit.

I, for one, have no evidence nor do I believe that the man is anything other than that: A fraud.

Any other accusation should have some basis in reality or it shouldn't be mentioned.

I'm calling sock skunk.


I watched one lecture from Greer, and realized this dude is a clown. Mentioning his workout regimine, than 5 minutes later saying "it's hot in here", then taking of his jacket to reveal a Smedium sized shirt.
He's a narcissist and in it for the money and attention.

I challenge any Greer defender and/or fan to submit any facts confirming any of his substantial promises; WITHOUT excuses.
edit on 13-8-2012 by capone1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-8-2012 by capone1 because: typo



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 




Who has used the word "pedophile"


Damn near a whole thread on it, read up and get back ASAP.

And please, keep up, we can't always be doing your homework for you.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by ReallyNiceGuy
reply to post by The GUT
 




Who has used the word "pedophile"


Damn near a whole thread on it, read up and get back ASAP.

And please, keep up, we can't always be doing your homework for you.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


That thread is NOT about your favorite subject. Indeed, the issue never came up until you mentioned it first: The first mention of it is here. If anyone here would like to take a look at that thread you will see that other posters disavow the entire idea. You later claim to be defending Greer yet, curiously, you were the one who originally brought it up.

There is no cause to derail this thread with the same nonsense. I hereby disavow and repudiate that subject for this thread. If you want to start a thread on this, be my guest, but please keep it off of here. Thanks.




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