The Problem with Greer

reply to post by RenalFailure

Intel guys what intel guys are you talking about? What have they got to do with this subject or anything?

Facts plaease no BS.

I will have to pass you over to The GUT he is the resident intelligence agent on this thread.

I have heard that what Greer calls a Deadman Switch" is more typically called "sanctuaries". Information that is stored away and released if bad things happen. Every intel agent of any prominence has these sanctuaries for the protection of their families more than their own lives.

Frankly, I am only guessing, I have no idea if this is correct or street gossip.

I actually have a legit question for the believers (in Greer) out there:

Would you stop believing in Greer if this movie turns out not to get released, or simply ends up being extremely underwhelming? And by underwhelming I mean: "Not conclusive". -Dark images, no sources listed, no officials with actual credentials, ...-

I'm still open to the possibility that Greer might be the real deal (although everything in my gut says he ain't), but I was wondering if any of the followers are open to the possibility that he aint?

reply to post by Rendier

I actually have a legit question for the believers (in Greer) out there:

You may be too late. They may have packed and left. People get tired of being abnormally abused and dragged over the coals of fundamentalist debunkers.

I'm fairly certain, if this SIRIUS video ever gets out, we won't be seeing anything ground breaking or new.
One of the promotional videos someone here posted had a few frames of clip from the movie Super 8.
Sure, some of the stock pasted into the film will be new and "consciousness-altering" to those fairly ignorant of the phenomenon, and the pervasiveness of mistaken identity and fraud, but, I'm doubtful anything genuinely new will make an appearance.

I suspect the video will indeed be interesting and fun to watch, but, it will be nothing more than just another toot of air to blow people's skirts up, all woven around lots of Greer face time, posturing, and voice over.

I suspect it'll be more akin to a promotional video veiled as a 'documentary'; nothing more than a vehicle for Greer to get more face time, likes on Facebook, boost name recognition, and and over all plug in to a larger audience for greater revenue streams.

If the teaser video is any indication, it'll be just another talking head video cut with liberal clips ripped from creative commons source material, seasoned with only a fraction of original foundation trade craft footage shot for the video; ie, interviews, landscapes, night sky panoramas, clips from CSETI outings, and other filler.
Speculations will be presented as irrefutable fact, and we'll hear the same old song we hear in all these videos that do no more than tell a fun story, raising more questions than actual answers.

Greer really did not start out as weird as he is now. Maybe the tendency was there, and maybe it was just because we didn’t know him as well. After all, he had his copyright problems in the nineties and was taken to task by then Head of the CIA Wollsey for exaggerating the nature of their relationship in 1999, so there was a tendency to exaggerate even back then.

But he wasn’t weird. He dressed in a business suit. During the 2001 press conference he talked and acted professionally, as did the witnesses, who were obviously coached. It was a class act, and for many people, this was their introduction to Greer, and it was a favorable one.

But then things started to go kind of crazy, first a little bit, and now a lot. I don’t recall when he started talking about being attackedby “scalar” weapons (and surviving!), when the UFOs caused the Mexican Army to play guitars, or when he held an alien baby in his arms, or when he claimed credit for the Phoenix Lights episode, or when he started talking about any of those (two different issues, really). But even then they were personal anecdotes told by him to others who had not seen those things for themselves.

Then came the camping trips, with elaborate light shows, music, and lasers, intended to “vector in” UFOs. When you think about it, why would a UFO piloted presumably by aliens, pay any attention to some guy in the woods playing strange music and flashing lights around? Their attraction to this amounts to childlike behavior. And at first people saw some lights in the sky that “definitely were not airplanes!” and apparently went home satisfied.

That’s an amazing story in itself. Why would any rational individual see a mere light in the sky and profess themselves satisfied they saw an alien spaceship? In the same vein the same rule applies for someone seeing pictures of orbs (not the orbs themselves) or hearing footprints in the water. What does that prove? Orbs? Seriously? And you say WE don’t have an open mind? If you think lame experiences like I just described PROVE anything, then you’re bat-guano crazy.

But it gets even better. These days Greer can take you on a camping trip, and during that Kumbaya moment around the campfire tell you that invisible Lilliputian-sized aliens just landed in an invisible spaceship and are even now crawling on your laps, and the only reason you can’t see them is that you’ve not “evolved” enough.

Yes, Greer’s aliens are benevolent invisible miniature beings only he (and his nubile assistants) can see, like Art Carney and his six foot tall rabbit called Harvey. The most amazing thing about this is that anyone who has participated in these sessions would believe it themselves and report it to others and manage to keep a straight face.

I suspect Greer is as amazed as anyone. He started out saying stuff like, “I have access to this document from a REALLY high up official. I wish I could tell you who (gush), but I just can’t.” a situation no one can verify one way or another—to telling you Lilliputian aliens are crawling on your lap and if you can’t see them, it’s all your fault. And people believe that, too. Unless he is clinically insane, he must be shaking his head and rolling his eyes in the privacy of his own tent as he contemplates how completely gullible his followers are.

And another strange thing is that he’s not the only one who has gone through this “evolution,” if you will, from standard, normal, UFO reporter with a cause guy to a completely whacked out loon. Billy Meier did it, too. He went from a Swiss one-armed farmer who supposedly took some cool photos to someone who says he went back into the time of the dinosaurs, took a picture or two there and, btw, is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. No matter that we’ve NAILED him completely. His picture of a dinosaur was taken from a contemporary book. His picture of his alien friend was from a 1950’s era Donna Reed show, and his UFO pictures are complete fakes, still, people travel to his farm and give him money.

But it gets weirder yet. Karl Korff, a researcher who busted Meier’s wedding cake photos by showing the grain can lid it was made from and the shiny parts from common hardware items, has gone loony himself, claiming to be a Colonel in a secret Israeli intelligence agency, making up his girlfriend, and threatening other researchers who have exposed his nonsense.

Why are these people going crazy? They seem to gain a bit of notoriety, then begin escalating their claims to the point of being ridiculous. Lilliputian invisible aliens in an invisible spaceship? Really?

And the most amazing thing of all, the power of faith of people who actually buy off on this stuff, no matter how asinine it gets.

reply to post by schuyler


I think Greer aspires to be another Meier, but more in the movie star sense than Meier's humble one-armed farmer.

Meier's got a fantastic game. Through his FIGU network cult, members must pay dues for membership, where top level memberships can cost ~$600 - $1000+ a year with an additional commitment (honor) of completing a yearly pilgrimage to Meir's farm, dubbed the Semjase Silver Star Center to participate in group meditation and study of the Meir writings, but, more importantly contribute free unpaid labor toward the upkeep and success of his farm.

It's the old Tom Sawyer trick where Tom conned all the other kids to pay him for the 'enjoyment' of whitewashing a fence.

Meir gets roughly a dozen new free laborers a week, every week out of the year, plus the steady revenue stream of dues coming in from his FIGU cult membership, plus the insulation and freedom of autonomy through delegation of management functions as it applies to running the farm and organizing work with the weekly rotation of pilgrims to his core group of full time inner circle live-ins.

He gets revenue from the farm, additionally so through free labor.
His free labor actually pays him him for the chance 'honor' to work his farm and maybe meet the man hisself.
He gets additional revenue through snake oil salesmen patrolling all the UFO conferences like Michael Horn, who's job is to run all over the globe promoting Meirism, selling books and videos, etc.

The man doesn't really have to work or do a thing but bask in the glow of his adoring worshipers.
With worshipers come all the perks involved with young impressionable choice of preferred sexual gender contact and many other things.

He's got a rather respectable very successful set up that would be the envy of any con artist.
If Greer wants to be another Meier, there's no wonder to or about it.

reply to post by fah0436


please post the picture you speak of.

reply to post by Druscilla

reply to post by schuyler


Yeah -- what about self-immolation? I mean Buddhist monks do it to protest U.S. imperialist genocide or Chinese imperialist genocide. The man in Tunisia practiced self-immolation to protest the heinous corrupt of the military regime there.

O.K. so if Greer is the real deal and is getting all kooky -- I mean I doubt he is going to practice self-immolation. I'm not promoting that he does. Only his supposed sincerity that all the true believers keep pushing -- like everything Greer is being "castigated" for only proves he's a worse victim of the unbelievers. So if we people who dare to call Greer on his blatant b.s. deception and disinformation -- then if it is so obviously Greer is a corrupt crazed con-artist cult leader -- then Greer being so victimized by those who dare to point out Greer as a scam artist -- Greer, logically, will be forced to practice:

self-immolation.

I mean if Greer does practice self-immolation in an act of final protest to prove that he really does have secret information and is demanding access to more secret information that the government is hiding -- I mean if Greer self-immolates then he will only be able to get that secret information in his spirit form.

So then the ghost of Greer -- I mean I suppose with access to the secret information of free energy Greer should be able to create another physical body to reincarnate and then Greer can visit his followers again.

These followers will then also have their free energy abilities -- along with a free UFO spacecraft of course.

Somehow I just think Greer has limitations to just how far he is willing to allow himself to be victimized by all the people like myself willing to think Greer is a fake fraud con-man cult leader.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by fah0436

 

You would have to find and ask them.
We kept our distance from them, but did see them drive or walk by every few hours.
Under the Permit Greer got, the park agreed not to interfere with or snoop on what we where doing.
That's all I know.

Funny, at first you said:

There were skeptics. And far far too many strange things happened on the beach, on the water and in the sky that could not possibly be staged on a public beach patrolled 24/7 by park rangers.

So now you're saying that Greer had some sort of arrangement with the Park Rangers not to snoop or interfere, which means that Greer could have staged anything he wanted to.

The arrangement with the park applied only at night while we were there. He did try to keep the rangers about 100 feet away from up so they would not disturb what we were doing, with is common for almost any kind of meeting and very reasonable in my view. Could he have trucked in hundreds of pounds of equipment to stage a show? No way. Everything had to be carried in on foot at least a quarter of a mile at night. And Greer and his team arrived at the same time everyone else did. I very much doubt that Rangers would have let ANYONE else in at any other time during darkness.

And more more very important thing. There was a precise 20-30 minute window when we were allowed to proceed into the park/beach area. That went for everyone except of course the park rangers themselves. After that, the gates were closed and locked and no one else let in.

Originally posted by fah0436
And more more very important thing. There was a precise 20-30 minute window when we were allowed to proceed into the park/beach area. That went for everyone except of course the park rangers themselves. After that, the gates were closed and locked and no one else let in.

I hate to tell you this...but. The more I hear about this Greer beach campout you paid a lot of money for, the more I think you got taken to the cleaners. I've thought about the scenario you've told us. I can easily see everything needed to pull of his little *tricks*, carried in, in a knapsack on one's back.

Handheld laser pointers with batteries, Check

Small digital directional tape recorder. Check...

Hand held camera. Check...

Dedicated Groupies to help with ruse. Check...

It wouldn't take a car to take in what he needed to pull this off.

Des

Originally posted by fah0436

The arrangement with the park applied only at night while we were there. He did try to keep the rangers about 100 feet away from up so they would not disturb what we were doing, with is common for almost any kind of meeting and very reasonable in my view. Could he have trucked in hundreds of pounds of equipment to stage a show? No way. Everything had to be carried in on foot at least a quarter of a mile at night. And Greer and his team arrived at the same time everyone else did. I very much doubt that Rangers would have let ANYONE else in at any other time during darkness.

Ok, ok , ok, but what about the photo?

I have a picture of multicolored orbs lining up the whole sky...

The photo you tell us you have is probably the best evidence you brought back from the field trip. Is there any reason you can't let us see it?

reply to post by fah0436


I studied studio engineering before there was DAT (Digital Audio Tape, the precursor to CDs). Most people do not know the amazing and even terrifying things that can be accomplished with a mixer and good sound system.

It is so freaking easy to make sounds seem like they are coming from behind you even though the speakers are in front of you...and the opposite is true also. Throwing sound around a room or even an open area has been around before electronics were invented.

As for the money argument. An ER surgeon in a big city is a very difficult and straining job. 10-12 hour shifts of car accident victims, gun shot victims, guys involved in knife fights, children getting hit by cars or beaten senseless by a parent, drownings, women beaten by husbands and boyfriends, heart attacks, etc....and all the time you can hear the screaming and crying relatives & friends in the background. then if you can't save the patient, you are assaulted, screamed at and cursed because friends and relatives accuse you of not doing your best.
Long hours, hard work and an emotional roller-coaster.

Certainly creating a web site or two (which I have done) have a few conferences once in awhile, reading and sending out emails is EASY work compared to an ER surgeon.

For real truth seekers, it only takes one lie (big or small), one contradiction...and the credibility is gone.
Everything becomes suspect.

There are more early details that relate to his pre-1994 activities. Firstly, here's the financial base he started off with in the early 1990s

[...] in a letter to Janice Williams, an Asheville woman who managed the CSETI office until last March, Greer claimed that "my income at present is LESS than [my family's] expenses for living"-- but the fact is that he isn't poor. Along with drawing a doctor's paycheck, Greer has several hefty real estate holdings, which he's in the process of liquidating. He and his family live in a 22-room Tudor-style home in one of Asheville's most exclusive subdivisions, Biltmore Forest; it's on the market for $698,000 (recently marked down from $725,000), and he's selling another home for $398,000. He also draws rent from the Asheville office structure that houses CSETI's international headquarters.

Secondly, what sounds very much like a pre-arranged con in a known environment with convenient (and timely!) sound effects. Some cohort in the woods with a sound system?

Greer is a well-built 37-year-old whose sturdy neck supports a simian head decorated with red-blond hair, a beard, and glasses: The overall impression is of a bookwormy, partially sheared Sasquatch. As we settle in he glances around, frowns and squints, then deems the spot ripe for sightings. Indeed, what he considers promising data soon whistle in. From a stand of tall pines about a quarter-mile north of us drifts the call of a whippoorwill and a weird, lonely tone that I've never heard before. Greer, still standing, executes a three-quarter torso twist and cocks an ear at the trees. Body alert, he announces that the tone is "almost identical" to a sound recorded a few years earlier by a UFO skywatch group in Canada. Significantly, it occurred near a field where crop circles--patterns and lines that for some time now have been mysteriously turning up on British and North American farms--had recently appeared. Analysis of the Canadian tone, he claims, showed that "it did not match any sound known on this planet."

Alien Brothers, Come Down

The article goes on to quote Greer's claim of a red saucer hovering above his CSETI team and communicating with a light show. It speaks of him telling even his CSETI colleagues that he was out of money whilst receiving 5 and 10 thousand dollar checks from sponsors to whom he also claimed poverty. These aren't rumours but accounts by ex-CSETI admins.

It demonstrates that he has always been loose with the truth and has a talent for acquiring wealth. He was a property millionaire in 1994 who told friends and associates he was poor and needed money - same MO as today. Central to this isn't the money, it's the 20+ years of enormous claims (never once proven) that should suggest to even the slowest of people that he is in fact a fraudster. The money is reward for the fraud, but not necessarily proof of fraud i.e. wealth doesn't equal fraud.

Pre-94

Films footage of Gulf Breeze ufo display.
Has red spaceship hovering overhead in S America
Has a dozen encounters with aliens in woods
Has telepathic contact with female aliens in space
Can Remote View multiple events in time
Has Bill Clinton's personal phone number
Claims poverty whilst owning three properties and receiving large checks

Post-94
Claims to 'brief' L Rockefeller, Clintons, Woolsey, Ed Mitchell
Claims to have organised the Rockefeller 'best evidence' document
StealsClaims authorship of the 'Best Evidence' document
Receives legal letter from Rockefeller about plagiarising and attribution
Claims to have free energy device
MothLight Being photos
Tree Alien in desert photos
Alien baby photos
Plastic propDead alien photographs
Claims to possess dead alien

Fair play to the guy, he's got big balls to keep testing how far he can go with this. Who'd expect that people can believe this stuff, but here we are with some folk on ATS not just believing it, but PROMOTING it! A 'dead alien' is about as far as this can go. It was enough for Ray Santilli to make over $1million in one year in royalties off his faked Alien Autopsy movie. Greer's got bigger balls and can vector a chump from 200 yards away.

I look at it this way. The best way to stop interest in something is to create ridicule. The best way to create ridicule is to put someone in charge who is not reliable.

I believe aliens are here but greers past does nothing to help IMO. We need more decent and credible individuals.

reply to post by TheMindWar
I see your point.

The thing is, we've had some very credible people and still do. Let's say we have 15 military witnesses in the air and on land who go on record to say they all saw the same UFO? Let's add two types of radar that confirm solid returns in the locations reported by the witnesses?

As a military investigator, what could you do when you've put down the pen that wrote their statements? Not much. The same goes for credible researchers.

I think that as long as we have big questions and very few answers (ghosts, God, spirits, after-life, NDEs, UFOs), there will always be a Greer. They've inserted themselves for centuries and improved their lives by feeding folk made-up answers. Sooth-sayers, pardoners, mediums, Contactees, cancer-cures, free energy, witch-doctors and snake-oil salesmen. Every damn one of them creates a *something* to scare you and a way out for payment.

On the bright side, Mr Greer must totally hate ATS for bruising his ego if nothing else.

reply to post by schuyler


In agreement with schuyler in what he says about this Greer fellow. I will be on the look out. Although I am quick to believe I'm just as quick to dismiss. Just the same its nice to just skip a step.

Greer really does deserve more praise than what some are giving him because the disclosure alone from military whistleblowers is INCREDIBLE to say the least. It truly is!

H8ers gotta h8.
Gonna have a fit
Liars gotta lie
Thsi thread is full of ....