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The Problem with Greer

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posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by fah0436
 



There were skeptics. And far far too many strange things happened on the beach, on the water and in the sky that could not possibly be staged on a public beach patrolled 24/7 by park rangers.


I would be very interested in hearing what the Park Rangers have to say about the affair.




posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by fah0436
 
I'm happy to take your account as something that you experienced. Doesn't bother me at all.

When it comes to 'supply evidence he is a fraud,' it's implicit in your posts that you wouldn't recognise the 'evidence' if it stole your clothes and ran through the streets singing hallelujah.

Read the thread.

'Minor mistakes?' The guy has been 'vectoring' aliens for twenty years at several hundred dollars a head per night.

You can go out and flash lights at the sky for free and 'engage protocols' to your heart's content for free. What makes you think Greer owns the franchise?



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Thaxter
reply to post by Kandinsky

It's a noble cause. It truly is. And Greer is not the only one who claims there is such a thing as a Zero Point Energy Device. In fact, Greer has claimed to have one "in development" for years. He has solicited funds for this development several times. He also says it's small and fairly simple. he also says he spent $100K on a dune buggy which runs on water. That's also very cool. Think of it! Fill your "gas" tank with water and kiss the oil companies good bye. Someone who could pull this off would be a hero for all time!

So where are these marvelous technologies that violate the Laws of Physics as we know them? Greer has been talking about them nearly as long as he has been talking about UFOs. Why doesn't he simply post the plans and let all those unemployed geeky engineers start tinkering? THAT'S crowd sourcing. If he wants to save the world surely he doesn't need money to do it. Just give it away. Make it Open Source. Put a Creative Commons License on it and let's get going!

Instead he wants $250K to make a movie about it.

Where's the beef?



If you knew much about free energy, you would understand why it has not come out yet.
Greer personally knows 50 free energy researchers that have either been payed off, had their labs raided or destroyed, been harmed or even killed.

There is such a list on the web somewhere. I'm sure it's referenced here on ATS somewhere.

And did you know that over 5000 patents are classified and those submitted claiming more that a 25% power efficiency improvement are rejected out of hand?

Maybe you should watch the Thrive Video!
www.thrivemovement.com...

It pretty much independantly confirms everything Greer says about Free Energy.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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The 2001 Press Conference was very convinging. But there were a few puzzling things - details that just didn't match up. Some of the speakers seem to belong to a disinformation project - I forgot what it was called, Project Camelot or something like that, perhaps.

And then what Greer talked about later... it felt like someone had taken a rational, scientific, reasonable man, and replaced him with some kind of psychotic, egotripping, gender-identity-mixed moron, who spews whatever comes to his mind, without using logic or making much sense.

I thought for awhile that something simply happened to him, that launched a psychosis, or something.. but with this post (though the post doesn't provide much proof either, except the Mothra-picture), the puzzle pieces are locking together. It wasn't that Greer and the press conference were credible (or so it seems at this point), although it did have peculiar 'guests' as speakers - and something just happened to Greer - but it was more like 'it was all a set-up from the get-go'.

Right now it seems that Greer is a fraud, working -with- the disinformation projects. That would make perfect sense, and explain -everything- seamlessly. I did have some trouble trying to find an explanation to all the discrepancies in most of the 'speakers' stories - I don't mean the ones they told in the 2001 press conference, but in other projects and videos, later on.

These guys who can tell a good yarn, but with closer inspection turn out to be frauds, charlatans and whatnot, seem to be great in number these days. There's also Al Bieleck, whose account of The Philadelphia Experiment was very convincing at first - though several details were clearly completely wrong, and in such a way that it would have been impossible for them to be wrong, if the story was true and he was credible. Later investigation showed him to be a known storyteller, who fabricates all kinds of new details every time he tells a story, until the story becomes so insane that not even the most diehard new-age flowerchild on LCD can accept it as the truth.

Good work exposing the fraudsters - but remember, the actual truth is still there to be found, and we can't get to it by only denying and exposing - we must also research, learn and find ..



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by countduckula24
If it ever comes up for debate I for one wouldn't mind seeing Billy Meier's picture being replaced by Greer's as the symbol for a hoax thread on ATS.


I would actually like to know more about this.

As far as I know, Meier has produced some good stuff, and his photos and videos would have required a studio and really expensive equipment to forge - at a time when Meier was almost broke, and when you think about the fact that he only has one hand, those are pretty big requirements.

However, I want to know the -truth-, whatever it may be, and I do not have much solid evidence one way or another about Meier. So I am open minded to all alternatives, until I have enough information to start seriously considering one side more than the other.

So, would you have reliable information about Meier as a hoax? I am probably going to skim the ATS forums a bit, but you know how they can be - they can range so much from completely reliable to completely filled with lies..



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by fah0436
If you knew much about free energy, you would understand why it has not come out yet.
Greer personally knows 50 free energy researchers that have either been payed off, had their labs raided or destroyed, been harmed or even killed.


What are their names?


And did you know that over 5000 patents are classified and those submitted claiming more that a 25% power efficiency improvement are rejected out of hand?


I can see that because the patent office has been frequently asked to justify perpetual motion machines and such. And when they do they are made a laughingstock. The patent office doesn't want to be embarrassed by snake oil salesmen who claim a workaround to the laws of physics. I don't blame them for being wary.

But I think you missed my point about patents. Why does one procur a patent? To have the exclusive right to make and market an invention for the life of the patent without any competition. In other words, a patent is for one purpose only: To make money. A good example is pharmeceuticals. I have one prescription that was $120 a bottle of 5ml. When the patent went off a generic drug with the same characteristics cost $7.99. That's what a patent can do for you. Hurt the consumer.

If you REALLY wanted to save the world for all Mankind, you would do what Linus Torvalds did. Give it away, as he did Linux. An Open Source program allows anyone who wants to contribute to the project and PREVENTS anyone else from hiding it behind a proprietary license. This technique has worked with some success in the computer industry. It certainly worked for Linux.

But when you have a Conspiracy Theory, you absolutely MUST have a reason you can't produce the goods. It can be the Men in Black, the CIA, the KGB, Standard Oil, or whatever boogey man you dream up to blame for your own failures. It's also a great cover for failing to perform year after year, and in Greer's case, decade after decade.

It's the same belief structure as Christianity. When Paul was preaching from Ephesus in Turkey to Greece and Rome, he had a hard time keeping the flock together and on topic. That's what his "letters" are all about, admonishing the far flung flocks to toe the line. And how did he do it? By saying that Jesus was coming again. The idea was that Jesus was coming again WITHIN THE LIFETIMES of the Christians. It was imminent. Real! Soon! Now! So the worshippers better not screw up! better not deviate from the path! The point is that Jesus' Second Coming was not going to be in 1,000 or 2,000 years. It was going to happen any SECOND!

Of course, here we are 2,000 years later and you all know how that went. And here you have the same sort of situation with Greer. It's like a Messianic Movement. Greer can make you believe, Believe Brother! that a miniature alien spaceship has landed right in front of you BUT YOU CAN'T SEE IT! because you aren't "evolved" enough, but if you WERE evolved, you'd know thay are crawling on your lap right now ready to be scratched behind the ears.

And as for free energy, if the Bad Guys(tm) hadn't interfered by God. We'd have it by now! It's not Greer's fault, it's the dag nam'd guvmint!

Where's the Beef???


edit on 8/4/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Greer in a nutter shell






posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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Wow. Okay. Earlier in the thread it was suggested that Dr. Greer uses mind-control techniques, and put forth the idea that he might even go so far as to sprinkle oxytocin in people's drinks in a liberal dose, him being a medical doctor with access to this kind of thing and all.... Just. Wow. Okay. That was refuted by the "experiencer" of the group who said they all brought their own food and water and didn't have that supplied by Greer.

Another knock-down of that particular "trust inducing" drug is the fact that it breaks down in the digestive tract and can only be administered through a nasal spray OR injection. Now, in fairness, this drug can be used for nefarious reasons to induce trust. This is true. But unless it is administered correctly it is useless. So let's put that particular thing to rest. Unless there is some evidence that Dr. Greer is dosing folks with oxytocin by sticking needles in them or putting nasal spray up their noses, I think we can let that particular innuendo go.

I get frustrated by such things. There is no reason to build up fantasies of drug usage in Dr. Greer's events nor to suggest that he is dangerous in this particular way - if there is no actual proof or evidence of this then it is simply wrong. To link him also by association of "dangerous criminal mind control drug usage" to Heaven's Gate and Jonestown is, imo, slanderous talk. (libel?)

I have NO problem with people getting into issues with Dr. Greer - there are obviously issues to get into! - but I DO have a problem with making up issues in the form of "possibilities" of criminal conduct.

Granted, this is a conspiracy site and so such thoughts do spill out on a regular basis while people chew over ideas on a topic. I would suggest the 'possibility' that this is not the best way to go in this situation. There are plenty of other points that could be made dealing with real events in regards to Dr. Greer's career - subtle and poorly researched "suggestions" of criminal behavior of this very serious and harmful nature, however, are just out of bounds in my opinion. Unless there is proof of this by those who have experienced his CSETI events personally, it is unfounded and highly biased speculation. If there is proof of this it is a matter for serious law enforcement intervention, not a game for internet speculation.

If someone attacking Greer can make up and inject stuff like this into the conversation while simultaneously slamming someone for being out of touch with reality (i.e. they were a 'mark' and victim of manipulation/mind control/suggestibility and group-think), then I call foul.

If there is any issue of altered consciousness, that can be an outcome of meditation, which DOES happen at CSETI events. This is an essential part to contact, according to Greer. So this means it is possible that people are suggestible and they are expecting "something" to happen - heck they've paid for it!

I do believe it is also very possible for skeptics to attend this event and be very objective about things, aware of manipulation techniques, etc. I know I would be! I trust that our thread's "experiencer" really did have an unforgettable evening with events that he couldn't explain, just as he stated. It is a "grey area" experience, and doesn't stand as "proof" of alien contact, but it does mean that people going on CSETI events are having experiences of "high strangeness" whatever that means. It is real for the experiencer.

Whew. Okay. Glad I got that off my chest...

- AB


Drug forms

Synthetic oxytocin is sold as proprietary medication under the trade names Pitocin and Syntocinon, and as generic oxytocin. Oxytocin is destroyed in the gastrointestinal tract, so must be administered by injection or as nasal spray. It has a half-life of typically about three minutes in the blood, and given intravenously does not enter the brain in significant quantities - it is excluded from the brain by the blood–brain barrier. Evidence in rhesus macaques indicates oxytocin by nasal spray does enter the brain.[60] ...
The trust-inducing property of oxytocin might help those who suffer from social anxieties and mood disorders,[44] but with the potential for abuse with confidence tricks[62][63] and military applications.[64]
Source
edit on 4-8-2012 by AboveBoard because: misspelling!!!



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by fah0436
If you knew much about free energy, you would understand why it has not come out yet.
Greer personally knows 50 free energy researchers that have either been payed off, had their labs raided or destroyed, been harmed or even killed.

There is such a list on the web somewhere. I'm sure it's referenced here on ATS somewhere.

And did you know that over 5000 patents are classified and those submitted claiming more that a 25% power efficiency improvement are rejected out of hand?

Maybe you should watch the Thrive Video!
www.thrivemovement.com...

It pretty much independantly confirms everything Greer says about Free Energy.


It still doesn't anwser the original statement: Why doesn't Greer just release his stuff? It's a known fact that TBTB, including governments, have no control over the internet. Offcourse, individual servers are owned, but the principle of the internet can not be "stopped", this is how peer-to-peer programs such as torrents work, once it's "released", it can only be stopped by shutting down every single copy of this file, there's no big red button in the president's office with "DELETE FILE FROM INTERNET" on it. Point being, the internet is free, intirely. Governments have been trying to regulate it, but they failed over and over again. There's nothing, not matter to what degree of illegality, you couldn't find on the internet.

So the original statement still stands: Why doesn't Greer simply release his information? If anything, the longer he waits, the more likely it is the internet becomes more and more regulated. There's not a single downside to releasing all this earth-shattering information he has, other than him losing his monopoly on this information. So if you truly believe that Greer is the real deal, the fact that he has a hidden agenda (protect his monopoly for whatever reason -most likely monetary-) simply comes with it. Either way, Greer is a fraud, or atleast being fraudulent with the information he possesses.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by DJW001
 

You would have to find and ask them.
We kept our distance from them, but did see them drive or walk by every few hours.
Under the Permit Greer got, the park agreed not to interfere with or snoop on what we where doing.
That's all I know.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by fah0436
 



You can go out and flash lights at the sky for free....



Ya know- that's what WE did a few times, for fun and giggles while walking the dog. It was not "vectoring", No protocols, no $700+ a head.... We decided to blink a small LED flashlight at some weird blinking lights.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by Rendier

Originally posted by fah0436
If you knew much about free energy, you would understand why it has not come out yet.
Greer personally knows 50 free energy researchers that have either been payed off, had their labs raided or destroyed, been harmed or even killed.

There is such a list on the web somewhere. I'm sure it's referenced here on ATS somewhere.

And did you know that over 5000 patents are classified and those submitted claiming more that a 25% power efficiency improvement are rejected out of hand?

Maybe you should watch the Thrive Video!
www.thrivemovement.com...

It pretty much independantly confirms everything Greer says about Free Energy.


It still doesn't anwser the original statement: Why doesn't Greer just release his stuff? It's a known fact that TBTB, including governments, have no control over the internet. Offcourse, individual servers are owned, but the principle of the internet can not be "stopped", this is how peer-to-peer programs such as torrents work, once it's "released", it can only be stopped by shutting down every single copy of this file, there's no big red button in the president's office with "DELETE FILE FROM INTERNET" on it. Point being, the internet is free, intirely. Governments have been trying to regulate it, but they failed over and over again. There's nothing, not matter to what degree of illegality, you couldn't find on the internet.

So the original statement still stands: Why doesn't Greer simply release his information? If anything, the longer he waits, the more likely it is the internet becomes more and more regulated. There's not a single downside to releasing all this earth-shattering information he has, other than him losing his monopoly on this information. So if you truly believe that Greer is the real deal, the fact that he has a hidden agenda (protect his monopoly for whatever reason -most likely monetary-) simply comes with it. Either way, Greer is a fraud, or atleast being fraudulent with the information he possesses.


Then I guess all Free Energy researchers are frauds simply because they have not been successful at defeating or overcoming TPTB.
Probably many other researchers too in other disciplines.

Of course the real fraud is the government (actually plural) keeping free energy and other advanced technologies from us and keeping knowledge of government/Alien collaboration from us.
That's what we on this board should really be concerned about. Not what just one research group is doing or not.
edit on 8/4/2012 by fah0436 because: Added last paragragh.

edit on 8/4/2012 by fah0436 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/4/2012 by fah0436 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by fah0436

Originally posted by Rendier

Originally posted by fah0436
If you knew much about free energy, you would understand why it has not come out yet.
Greer personally knows 50 free energy researchers that have either been payed off, had their labs raided or destroyed, been harmed or even killed.

There is such a list on the web somewhere. I'm sure it's referenced here on ATS somewhere.

And did you know that over 5000 patents are classified and those submitted claiming more that a 25% power efficiency improvement are rejected out of hand?

Maybe you should watch the Thrive Video!
www.thrivemovement.com...

It pretty much independantly confirms everything Greer says about Free Energy.


It still doesn't anwser the original statement: Why doesn't Greer just release his stuff? It's a known fact that TBTB, including governments, have no control over the internet. Offcourse, individual servers are owned, but the principle of the internet can not be "stopped", this is how peer-to-peer programs such as torrents work, once it's "released", it can only be stopped by shutting down every single copy of this file, there's no big red button in the president's office with "DELETE FILE FROM INTERNET" on it. Point being, the internet is free, intirely. Governments have been trying to regulate it, but they failed over and over again. There's nothing, not matter to what degree of illegality, you couldn't find on the internet.

So the original statement still stands: Why doesn't Greer simply release his information? If anything, the longer he waits, the more likely it is the internet becomes more and more regulated. There's not a single downside to releasing all this earth-shattering information he has, other than him losing his monopoly on this information. So if you truly believe that Greer is the real deal, the fact that he has a hidden agenda (protect his monopoly for whatever reason -most likely monetary-) simply comes with it. Either way, Greer is a fraud, or atleast being fraudulent with the information he possesses.


Then I guess all Free Energy researchers are frauds simply because they have not been successful at defeating or overcoming TPTB.
Probably many other researchers too in other disciplines.


That's not what I said. I said that everyone who claims they have information that could benefit humanity (so any form of scientific knowledge not already known to mankind) and make out they're benevolent in nature (which is clearly the case with Greer), yet don't release that information straight away on the internet are fraudulent.

This does not mean the information they posses is a hoax perse. It means that the intentions of the person possessing this information aren't as benevolent as they make out to be, which is text-book fraud. (dictionary.reference.com...)

I do not deny the possibility that free energy exists, nor do I deny that Greer's claims could be true, as there is no way of telling "over the internet". What I do know for sure is that Greer is always not releasing his information just yet (fact), is constantly asking for donations (fact) and has been caught amidst a hoax in the past. -the moth- (fact)

I'm a man of facts and odds, and I don't like the facts or the odds going against Greer. I have no problem with other people believing him, but I would love for people to think twice before they give their hard-earned money to a man having atleast 3 strikes against him.

Edit: And I concider myself a "would love to"-believer. It would be absolutely fantastical if our world was more than meets the eye, if magic (really advanced technology, or even downright magic) existed so to speak. But the truth is that you can't just start believing every single story you find on the internet, there has got to be some critical thinking. (Otherwise you could start believing every Hollywood movie is real, but covered up by the government)

I've enjoyed watching Greer's many videos for hour on end. I've even let myself go along a bit in "what if" scenarios (and this goes for most conspiracies/theories I read), but at the end of the day you've got to come down to earth and be critical. This brings me, once again, to the 3 strikes about Greer I posted earlier.
edit on 4-8-2012 by Rendier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by fah0436






If you knew much about free energy, you would understand why it has not come out yet. Greer personally knows 50 free energy researchers that have either been payed off, had their labs raided or destroyed, been harmed or even killed. There is such a list on the web somewhere. I'm sure it's referenced here on ATS somewhere.And did you know that over 5000 patents are classified and those submitted claiming more that a 25% power efficiency improvement are rejected out of hand? Maybe you should watch the Thrive Video! www.thrivemovement.com... It pretty much independantly confirms everything Greer says about Free Energy.



Somewhere on ATS? Search results returned nothing in my query ?


Something so profound would certainly be easy to find on the web however nada! Lemme guess MIB intervened and 404'ed the data



More like 50 free energy researchers that never existed to begin with. No pay off's no intimidation just another figment of Greer's bogus big fish tales. I seen thrive and nothing new or groundbreaking was presented only theory of a doughnut's metaphysics, the monetary system topic rehashed and a lot of "what if" types of questions. It took on so many topics yet never delivered on the real gist of the doc. Nothing tangible or substance, then calls itself a movement.Half the doc was spent on Foster Gamble talking about himself ( much like Greer) stroking his ego. As often these "movements" do they will spin out in to a Galactic Federation Of Light gimmick. It's what Greer did to Disclosure Project and CSETI turning it in to a circus. They spend a lot of time preaching about the root of all evils then pass the tray ( made of alien alloys that need to be studied ) to collect your money ironically. It's not about Truth, helping your fellow human it's about the money it's always about the damn money. They will play on your hope and theories to get it. Birds of a feather. Greer needs to expand on his beach front property and suckers will oblige.
edit on 4-8-2012 by DarthFazer because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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I am simply going to tell this:

I spent a great deal of time being fed false promises by people "in the know". All I had to do was give them some money, and All of my problems and the world's problems would be handled! I was to be rescued from this planet, And my life and even my body would be vastly improved! I was told this for 22 years- all would be revealed to me in time- my problems solved in time, but all the while- i noticed who was getting rich, and who was not during this time. I saw the greed, corruption, lies, theft, backstabbing, and the treatment I was receiving. I realized, it was all a LIE. The ones who had all the answers, also had all of our money. What did we have? Not a damned thing- except disappointment.

















BTW- This is the CHRISTIAN CHURCH I am talking about. I am well versed in lies, deception, and being led along with a carrot on a stick.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by DarthFazer
 


Took me all of ten seconds to find this list. Obviously you did not try very hard:
rense.com...

And this search query in the ATS search bar got 1070 hits:
Free Energy suppression


edit on 8/4/2012 by fah0436 because: Added ats data



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


Deliver Us from Evil (2006) is a documentary film directed by Amy J. Berg which tells the true story of Catholic priest Oliver O'Grady, who sexually abused potentially hundreds of children between the late 1970s and early 1990s. The film won the Best Documentary Award at the 2006 Los Angeles Film Festival and was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature.[1] The title refers to a line in the Lord's Prayer, or the "Our Father." en.wikipedia.org...(2006_film

So yeah it's covered up by the Bishops -- the church is called a cult in that documentary. I think the evidence supports it.

So if the Christian Church is compared to the Mafia by a congressional investigation -- then certainly mass cover-ups of heinous crimes are not uncommon.

This never before told history as seen through the eyes of this former minister (Kevin Annett) who blew the whistle on his own church, after he learned of thousands of murders in its Indian Residential Schools..."

So yeah this documentary shows how the Christian Church committed mass sex crimes and mass murder against the indigenous native Indian children of Canada. I'm sure it was the same for the U.S. and Latin America.


edit on 4-8-2012 by fulllotusqigong because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by Rendier
 

You can't call someone a fake or fraud just because they have not been successful.
Many endeavors are not successful. Businesses fail all the time.
Do you know how many tries it took Edison to get a light bulb to work?

If if withholding data is wrong or is a crime, what about the tons of secret data ON YOU AND ME the government withholds on a daily basis? And data mining the internet for even more data on us and keeping THAT data secret! That's what we should be concerned about.

Of course if you really believe our government legitimately needs to keep all that data secret, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by fah0436
reply to post by Rendier
 

You can't call someone a fake or fraud just because they have not been successful.
Many endeavors are not successful. Businesses fail all the time.
Do you know how many tries it took Edison to get a light bulb to work?

Of course if you really believe our government legitimately needs to keep all that data secret, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Greer would prolly go partners with you on the "selling bridges" deal, fah.
We can call Greer a fake or a fraud, however, for pushing the mothra pics and telling big fibs about holding an alien baby. Unless that baby was an illegal immigrant, I ain't buying it.

And if it was a true alien baby, what about his commitment to disclosure?

C'mon, you're bright enough, Greer just don't add up.



posted on Aug, 4 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by wylekat
I am simply going to tell this:

I spent a great deal of time being fed false promises by people "in the know". All I had to do was give them some money, and All of my problems and the world's problems would be handled! I was to be rescued from this planet, And my life and even my body would be vastly improved! I was told this for 22 years- all would be revealed to me in time- my problems solved in time, but all the while- i noticed who was getting rich, and who was not during this time. I saw the greed, corruption, lies, theft, backstabbing, and the treatment I was receiving. I realized, it was all a LIE. The ones who had all the answers, also had all of our money. What did we have? Not a damned thing- except disappointment.


My condolences with your perilous adventure with Scientology.




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