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Rossi and Ecat: Are there any believers left???

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posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


Oh don't get me wrong I absolutely think there's something to LENR and I don't discount the possibility that Rossi is onto something, Even a blind squirrel gets a nut sometimes.

What I am saying though is there are others in the field that i think will make anything Rossi does look like small potatoes.

IN particular I have a good feeling about Robert Godes and Brillouin energy and their brillouin boiler.

Overall though I think cold fusion is something that's going to be big once we overcome the inertia built up against the technology.

With all that said though I just don't think Rossi has a technology as strong as they say they do.




posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 





But just failing once is not grounds to think hes a serial hoaxer that cant be trusted. Many of histories innovators failed lots of times before they finally got it right.

But the difference is that th other inventers worked on the same basic idea until they succeded.
Not bouncing from one failed idea to another.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by Sinny
 


He said that in 2010. His "big reveal", where all doubts would be put to rest, turned out to be more smoke and mirrors. His apologists said "just wait, we'll have the independent lab results in the coming weeks". That was nearly a year ago.


You should get your facts straight its been tested several times and proven to work and a long list of several prominent scientists have verified its output and that their was no trickery etc pesn.com has chronicled it from day one. if anyone wants the entire scoop lists of scientist etc. go there and catch up. No point in arguing with unsubstantial naysayers.

pesn.com...


edit on 2-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


No it hasnt
pesn.com? you really are scraping the barrel. Still, the "true believers" will see what they want yo see. All you're doing is posting from the same partial "free energy" websites. If that's your idea of independent testing then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
edit on 3-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by hawkiye
 


No it hasnt
pesn.com? you really are scraping the barrel. Still, the "true believers" will see what they want yo see. All you're doing is posting from the same partial "free energy" websites. If that's your idea of independent testing then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
edit on 3-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)


It always helps to read the articles they chronicle it all.

All this whining for independent testing is ridiculous. Name me one company that gives their proprietary technology over to academia cultists for independent testing? They in fact guard it quite zealously I have worked in R&D for some major companies so I know. This is not some lab experiment this is a product he is bringing to market but since it is new he was kind enough to allow several prominent scientist to verify its out put and that there was no trickery etc. he is not obligated to allow anyone to see his proprietary technology and no good business man would allow anymore then he has.

But naysayers can go on spouting their unsubstantiated false beliefs refusing to even look at the facts. It doesn't matter it will either come to market or not till then the dogs will continue to bark and yap for no good reason!



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 




and no good business man would allow anymore then he has.

What kind of businessman doesn't bother to apply for a patent???

The first unit sold could be dissected and a patent applied for. Then Rossi would be out in the cold. He wouldn't even be able to sell his own design.



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by hawkiye
 


No it hasnt
pesn.com? you really are scraping the barrel. Still, the "true believers" will see what they want yo see. All you're doing is posting from the same partial "free energy" websites. If that's your idea of independent testing then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
edit on 3-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)


It always helps to read the articles they chronicle it all.

Great, it's chronicled on some kooky pseudo-science website. I'm convinced!


All this whining for independent testing is ridiculous. Name me one company that gives their proprietary technology over to academia cultists for independent testing?

For extraordinary claims:
1) They publish
2) They demonstrate transparently and unambiguously

They don't skulk around the dark away from critical eyes.


They in fact guard it quite zealously I have worked in R&D for some major companies so I know.

Companies you have worked in? Go on then, name one you have worked at that has released a product that supposedly breaks the laws of science and has done so without demonstrating scientifically and practically that the concept works before it hits the market.


This is not some lab experiment this is a product he is bringing to market but since it is new he was kind enough to allow several prominent scientist to verify its out put and that there was no trickery etc. he is not obligated to allow anyone to see his proprietary technology and no good business man would allow anymore then he has.

And you know this because you read some mutual back scratching blog posts on pesn.com?



But naysayers can go on spouting their unsubstantiated false beliefs refusing to even look at the facts. It doesn't matter it will either come to market or not till then the dogs will continue to bark and yap for no good reason!

...and the emotionally motivated "true believers" who wish so hard upon a wishing star for it to be true completely ignore the blatantly obvious red flags. As usual, the "true believers" offer absolutely nothing new, just the same old "it's real, you just wait and see!" baloney.

You interested in this bridge or what? Get it while it's cheap, I'm not gonna be here all day.
edit on 3-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Wow the level of vitriol is pretty high in this thread.

I don't think it's productive to cast aspersions on your fellow posters just because they believe differently than you do.

I for one feel like Rossi could and should be doing things somewhat differently if he has a viable technology. Like not applying for patents because it could give away his secret sauce. The whole idea behind patents is to get yourself protection so if anyone does figure out what you're doing they can't replicate it and sell it as their own.

Another thing that bothers me is his fixation on selling the 1 megawatt plants. If he's got a working product he should be proceeding full steam ahead for home and mobile use generators. I mean it's a hell of a lot easier to get someone to risk say a few thousand dollars for a home unit than over a million for a 1 megawatt plant.

Hell the US military would probably keep him so busy with orders for stand alone 5 to 10 kw generators that he could retire just off that alone.

The fact that he's not doing these things makes me suspicious. Why is he focusing on the 1 megawatt plants? Why won't he file for patent protection? What else is he hiding or etc? Why can't we get a more conclusive demonstration? And most importantly why is he acting so damn shady?

If these questions could be answered I'd feel much better .



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 

People who believe without evidence are indulging in motivated reasoning. That isn't "vitriol" nor is it "casting aspirations on your fellow posters", it's an entirely legitimate observation. Fact is, there is absolutely no objective validation of any of Rossi's claims whatsoever.



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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Andrea Rossi was arrested for fraud, and served time in a prison I believe.
If you believe this is real, you fit right in with the dumb,schizophrenic ATS crowd.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
After following all the developments in this tech for a couple of years now im pretty convinced that it is the real deal. There have been a number of problems with other people trying to steal the designs and Rossi is very weary of putting in patents in case people rip off his work with derivative designs. Fingers crossed he manages to get it up and running .


Except the only thing protecting him would be patents. If someone steals his design and patents it HE CANT SELL IT. How does anyone ever buy into that whole patent scam he sells?



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by samkent
 


The why would another company be claiming to have ripped off his stuff and be producing their own version based on his designs?

What would be the ultimate aim of all this for him if it was a hoax?


edit on 2-8-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


They want a slice of his scam money? He's making dough and producing nothing. They want in on that. Every time a milestone comes up to "prove" the invention, they all have an issue. There's plenty of e-Cat threads here that show it is without a doubt a hoax.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 



He has flied for patents. It always helps to read the facts instead of spouting false beliefs or simply making crap up like some in this thread.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by hawkiye
 


No it hasnt
pesn.com? you really are scraping the barrel. Still, the "true believers" will see what they want yo see. All you're doing is posting from the same partial "free energy" websites. If that's your idea of independent testing then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
edit on 3-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)


It always helps to read the articles they chronicle it all.

Great, it's chronicled on some kooky pseudo-science website. I'm convinced!


All this whining for independent testing is ridiculous. Name me one company that gives their proprietary technology over to academia cultists for independent testing?

For extraordinary claims:
1) They publish
2) They demonstrate transparently and unambiguously

They don't skulk around the dark away from critical eyes... (rest snipped in the interest of sparing readers the pain of seeing such nonsense repeated)


All that silly nonsense you spouted and still failed to name a single company that allows 3rd parties full access to their proprietary technology in development. I worked for Hewlett Packard for many years I know the type of security they have on new tech they are developing as i tested some of it. Oh and by the way pesn.com is just a news site the reports on developments in this particular field they have been around for many years and are actually quit balanced and have exposed many fraudulent claims ... However not that you care for facts as I am sure you will keep on yapping your nonsense...
edit on 5-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by hawkiye
 


No it hasnt
pesn.com? you really are scraping the barrel. Still, the "true believers" will see what they want yo see. All you're doing is posting from the same partial "free energy" websites. If that's your idea of independent testing then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
edit on 3-8-2012 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)


It always helps to read the articles they chronicle it all.

Great, it's chronicled on some kooky pseudo-science website. I'm convinced!


All this whining for independent testing is ridiculous. Name me one company that gives their proprietary technology over to academia cultists for independent testing?

For extraordinary claims:
1) They publish
2) They demonstrate transparently and unambiguously

They don't skulk around the dark away from critical eyes... (rest snipped in the interest of sparing readers the pain of seeing such nonsense repeated)


All that silly nonsense you spouted and still failed to name a single company that allows 3rd parties full access to their proprietary technology in development. I worked for Hewlett Packard for many years I know the type of security they have on new tech they are developing as i tested some of it. Oh and by the way pesn.com is just a news site the reports on developments in this particular field they have been around for many years and are actually quit balanced and have exposed many fraudulent claims ... However not that you care for facts as I am sure you will keep on yapping your nonsense...
edit on 5-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)


I am glad you brought in HP. Do they patent their technology? Thanks.



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Ok so he's applied for a patent.... that's neat and all but it still doesnt change my mind about him... Especially after reading that he has a third criminal conviction for gold smuggling....

At the end of the day I think Cold fusion is very real and will eventually be vindicated on the world stage. I just don't think Rossi is going to be the man to do this. I'm placing my bets on brillouin corp or a third party dark horse.

If rossi does pull it off though I'll be pleasantly surprised.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





I am glad you brought in HP. Do they patent their technology? Thanks



Of course they do like all smart businesses Just like Rossi is doing. However that does not mean they disclose every proprietary element in the patent and patents are often pending until the product is ready to market to protect theft of proprietary technology. Rossi has patents pending but his method is is known using nickle and hydrogen except for a single proprietary catalyst.

Sorry to derail your attempt to set up a witty criticism but as I have said it does help to actually read and understand what has been done and actually tested etc. before acting on false beliefs.

Could it all turn out to be an elaborate hoax sure but I doubt it. It has none of the elements of such hoaxes that have been exposed in the past and has had several prominent scientist affirm its output and testing unlike any other (don't ask do the reading). If it actually gets to mass market only time will tell.



posted on Aug, 7 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





I am glad you brought in HP. Do they patent their technology? Thanks



Of course they do like all smart businesses Just like Rossi is doing.

Show me his patents. You can't? Didn't think so. You just proved my point, and made yourself look mighty stupid. At what stage do REAL companies obtain patents? Do they wait until they are selling models? How does Rossi claim he has functioning units and still have no patents, and his patent applications are all general theory, nothing solid. He should be beyond theory when he supposedly has functioning units.
I hate wiki but Rossi is not worth spending time on a real source.

An application in 2008 to patent the device internationally had received an unfavorable preliminary report on patentability at the World Intellectual Property Organization[32] from the European Patent Office, noting that the description of the device was based on "general statements and speculations" and citing "numerous deficiencies in both the description and in the evidence provided to support its feasibility" as well as incompatibilities with "generally accepted laws of physics and established theories."

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 7-8-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





I am glad you brought in HP. Do they patent their technology? Thanks



Of course they do like all smart businesses Just like Rossi is doing.

Show me his patents. You can't? Didn't think so. You just proved my point, and made yourself look mighty stupid. At what stage do REAL companies obtain patents? Do they wait until they are selling models? How does Rossi claim he has functioning units and still have no patents, and his patent applications are all general theory, nothing solid. He should be beyond theory when he supposedly has functioning units.
I hate wiki but Rossi is not worth spending time on a real source.

An application in 2008 to patent the device internationally had received an unfavorable preliminary report on patentability at the World Intellectual Property Organization[32] from the European Patent Office, noting that the description of the device was based on "general statements and speculations" and citing "numerous deficiencies in both the description and in the evidence provided to support its feasibility" as well as incompatibilities with "generally accepted laws of physics and established theories."

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 7-8-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)


Like I said stop spouting your false beliefs and read the facts if you seriously want to know, its been hashed through many times here with all the links and evidence and chronicled at pesn.com from day one. I have no intention of trying to lead an emotional ranter by the nose to water. Your statement: "I hate wiki but Rossi is not worth spending time on a real source." says it all, you have NO intention of seeking a real source or facts only BS to reinforce you false emotional beliefs... knock yourself out...


edit on 8-8-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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The more I watch this thread the more I think the believers protest too much. People have valid and pressing concerns when it comes to Rossi and his supposed technology on any number of levels.

Whether it's steam quality issues, Volumetric measurement issues, Rossi's own refusal to provide enough data to generate meaningful results, or his admittedly sketchy background there are serious issues throughout the entire narrative that is the ECAT saga.

Does this mean the ECAT is a fake?.... Personally I don't think so. Rossi could just be a genuinely inept businessman who is way out of his depth and desperately trying to succeed. Or he could be a fraud.

But I think it's still a little too early to tell although it might stay that way indefinitely if Rossi or an Ecat buyer doesn't pony up enough hard data soon I predict interest in the ecat will completely die off. The bottom line is Rossi has got to trust someone enough to let real data be released at some point or his technology, even if it works, will basically be worthless due to his paranoia.

So Mr. Rossi if you're reading this please please please prove the naysayers wrong once and for all by letting someone run a definitive set of tests. And once you do this please start building home units as fast as you possibly can so we can all tell the oil barons where to stick it. IF you don't do this your technology will wither and die on the vine which could be bad for everyone if your technology is in fact valid and viable.




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