Fear or Love, which one are you?

Originally posted by brianmg5

Originally posted by stainlesssteelrat

Originally posted by brianmg5
I don't deny we are more complex, but I am suggesting that at the root of our emotional responses to external circumstances we are basing our response on either fear or love. However, That is a footnote of this thread. My main topic was how we react to others who stray from our ideals of human behavior.

My main argument is that it's better to react with forgiveness than with judgement, with love rather than hate, that we are actually diminished to the extent of our hate and judgement of others.

But judgment is inscribed in our perception of the world, if you look at someone's act you have to judge it to comprehend it. One look at the world through himself, so to speak.

Of course its better to react with forgiveness, but if you want to change something (like other persons behaviour), well... you have to judge it to give a frame of reference to show wrongness.
How badly that sounds fear is also necessary emotion to comprehend right and wrong.

Fear and love are two sides of the same coin, ying and yang. One cannot exist without another.
To decide which are you is just fantasy. We, humans, all love... just different things, often colliding with other people's "love objects".

Originally posted by ladylove
Thanks for that, I have not seen that film, Going to watch it now, Cheer's

Luckeeeeeee

I agree that fear and love can't exist without the other but it doesn't need to be in your backyard to exist. I can know that fear exists without living in fear.

I believe this to be true but only for this reality which is dualistic, yes one must be for the other to be not. or vice versa.
However I also believe that some are ready or have no fear to transcend into higher or lower form of reality which isn't governed by the Ying Yang principle and a lot more simple with one being just one and all being just one.

I hope that makes sense.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


That is good. You were scared of the fire for good reason, and now you used that to help yourself become stronger.

There is nothing wrong with understanding your fear, and listening to it if it is a serious danger to your well-being; but if it becomes irrational then it is time to step out of that fear because you can confuse irrational fears (like the fear of water), for logical fears that protect you (like the fear of walking too close to the edge and falling in the ocean)...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

That is good. You were scared of the fire for good reason, and now you used that to help yourself become stronger.

There is nothing wrong with understanding your fear, and listening to it if it is a serious danger to your well-being; but if it becomes irrational then it is time to step out of that fear because you can confuse irrational fears (like the fear of water), for logical fears that protect you (like the fear of walking too close to the edge and falling in the ocean)...

Well that just a random example that popped into my head, I was actually extremely afraid of spiders( mainly larger specimen) for a long time, realizing the effect it had on me helped a little but it was not until I actually placed a Huntsman spider on my hand from my backyard on my own that in that split second it began to walk on me I felt that I freed myself and was unable to stop smiling for a day or two because all I felt was a tickle, Had it been a more venomous specimen I cant say whether I would have tried however that was my first Not step but leap in the right direction I believe.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


I think most people would have been scared if it was venomous. Or maybe, I should say "cautious". No worries, no body wants to get bitten by a poisonous spider.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Anyone who says they are without fear is lying. Unless we live in a Sultan's palace, fear is a necessity. I would wager that anyone who says they are love and not fear would fear being told otherwise.

This is simply not true. I say I am "without fear" all the time.

This does not mean I never feel fear, it means that I do not act or react in fear.

I've never allowed myself to succumb to fear during emergent situations, for example.

However, when I was young, I was always "afraid" (anxious) about what other people thought of me. That was my main fear. Now that I don't care about what other people think of me, I have no fear.

I used to feel fear about spirits and aliens and such when I was young, but I came to peace with that, and no longer fear the unknown.

Those minute split seconds I feel fear (the fight or flight response) are fairly irrelevant, because I immediately turn them into something else. I accept it and move on.

You can tell me how much I "fear", but you have no idea what I'm actually feeling, just what you think I can and cannot feel - based on your own perceptions of emotion.

And, no, I don't fear you calling me a liar. It's your opinion.

reply to post by brianmg5



I have both, i fear i will never find love!

reply to post by brianmg5


I think you make some valid points, brianmg5.

I feel like this is our whole purpose as humans: to learn to love.

I admit it is a struggle for me, every day, to choose to feel love and acceptance instead of irritation or disdain. Those negative feelings are, for me, a learned behavior. I remember loving everyone when I was little and being very carefree and relaxed. It was only when I started to listen to other people's opinions that I started to feel dislike, distrust, disdain for other people.

I'm trying to get back to who I was when I was innocent - a loving and caring and nonjudgmental person.

Thanks for the thought-provoking thread!

reply to post by brianmg5


people don't make themselves, they cant control the factors that influence their will, no one is to blame, just love everyone because its fair to do so.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Anyone who says they are without fear is lying. Unless we live in a Sultan's palace, fear is a necessity. I would wager that anyone who says they are love and not fear would fear being told otherwise.

necessity, no FEAR is a tool of NATAS to control that is all? YOU can tell me I am not love and I wouldnt fear otherwise. If you possess fear then you always leave a evol PIMP access to you internally to have their ways with your conscious and flesh. FEAR WHAT? THE GOD(S) DOES NOT REQUEST FEAR ENERGY FROM 1 OR ALL, so what WHY FEAR ANYTHING, because it may feel it can destroy me thru negative flesh interactions hmm well then I would have first go at what wants me to fear it FROM A MORE SOUL/INTERNAL ENERGY/SPIRIT ASPECT AND MAY BECOME MORE DANGEROUS AND EFFECTIVE UPON IT FROM THERE? FEAR IS NOT NEEDED CAUTION/LOGIC YES BUT FEAR NO.

edit on 8/2/12 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)

Have you ever been face to face with a grizzly bear before? I have. Fear kick started my rationality, logic and caution and I escaped with my life and love intact. Conquer your fears? No way. I say embrace them, realize them and rationally find a way to make them subside.

Originally posted by ottobot

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Anyone who says they are without fear is lying. Unless we live in a Sultan's palace, fear is a necessity. I would wager that anyone who says they are love and not fear would fear being told otherwise.

This is simply not true. I say I am "without fear" all the time.

This does not mean I never feel fear, it means that I do not act or react in fear.

I've never allowed myself to succumb to fear during emergent situations, for example.

However, when I was young, I was always "afraid" (anxious) about what other people thought of me. That was my main fear. Now that I don't care about what other people think of me, I have no fear.

I used to feel fear about spirits and aliens and such when I was young, but I came to peace with that, and no longer fear the unknown.

Those minute split seconds I feel fear (the fight or flight response) are fairly irrelevant, because I immediately turn them into something else. I accept it and move on.

You can tell me how much I "fear", but you have no idea what I'm actually feeling, just what you think I can and cannot feel - based on your own perceptions of emotion.

And, no, I don't fear you calling me a liar. It's your opinion.

I'm sorry it is true. You mention being without fear, then in the next sentence you mention you feel fear. That is what I was pointing out. No one is without fear, yet everyone blames their fear and not how they act on them. This is being dishonest with oneself.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Fear arises, what are we going to do with it? Can we claim control of our emotions? Thats the work, thats the challenge. Fear happens, conquering it is the great work.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


You know what, if you love being afraid and terrified, then its ok, you are alright, some people love it, they love risk and being on the edge, i know its because they are adrenaline junkies but hey, can you love fear?
Fear of being afraid is the worst you can do, at least love it...
But i still think that the job is to turn fear into courage.
Turn negative emotions into the opposite positive emotions, then you reach balance.

What's the other option. I don't fear many people or hate anyone. I also don't love many people. I know, I'm being a difficult person for not fitting into your thread right. I'll move along.

reply to post by brianmg5


I have no love in me. I am hate and anger and rage. I hate about 99.999% of all humans I have ever met. But I know why I hate.

Because humans are stupid, ignorant(even worse they are willfully ignorant), greedy, self centered. I'll stop there.
Now, the majority of individual people, by themselves, are for the most part rational productive human beings. But get then into a group and all critical thinking skill are out the window. They become mindless mobs looking to be manipulated for someone else's gain.

reply to post by brianmg5


Me...I'm both. For sure I have fear and love all at the same time. It's scary loving so much, worrying so much about those you love, especially your children. Enough to make a girl insane!

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I'm sorry it is true. You mention being without fear, then in the next sentence you mention you feel fear. That is what I was pointing out. No one is without fear, yet everyone blames their fear and not how they act on them. This is being dishonest with oneself.

You completely missed the point.

Yes, I "feel fear" occasionally because it is an evolutionary response to certain stimuli.

However, I do not live my life through fear. Thus, I live without fear.

This is being quite honest.

Does it make you afraid to think that there are other people in the world who do not live in fear? I can't understand why else you would persist in calling me dishonest when I am telling you the truth. I feel like we're talking about two different subjects - you seem to be talking about some absolute Fear or No Fear, while I am talking about how I experience it... fear is not actually an emotion, but just an instinct.

There's no rule that says I have to accept fear as an emotion. It's my choice not to accept fear as an operator. I accept that I have a surge of adrenaline (which can be interpreted as "fear"), and move on with purpose.

I lived over seven years feeling no emotion at all, neither fear nor love or happiness.

It is a void.

So yes. I can live without any emotion, including fear. It is extremely easy for me to detach from my emotions. This is a fact. This is truth. This is not being dishonest.

And, yes, when I allow myself to have feelings, I can live with tiny neurological and chemical responses to external stimuli which my body processes initially as "fear" without acting or embellishing upon it.

The things that cause a "fear" response in my body are quite mundane, and I actually laugh when I feel it: looking down from heights taller than me (like a stepladder ), many circles bunched together, bugs jumping onto walls, random things I see out of the corner of my eyes that my brain interprets as "dangerous situation".

Originally posted by ottobot

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I'm sorry it is true. You mention being without fear, then in the next sentence you mention you feel fear. That is what I was pointing out. No one is without fear, yet everyone blames their fear and not how they act on them. This is being dishonest with oneself.

You completely missed the point.

Yes, I "feel fear" occasionally because it is an evolutionary response to certain stimuli.

However, I do not live my life through fear. Thus, I live without fear.

This is being quite honest.

Does it make you afraid to think that there are other people in the world who do not live in fear? I can't understand why else you would persist in calling me dishonest when I am telling you the truth. I feel like we're talking about two different subjects - you seem to be talking about some absolute Fear or No Fear, while I am talking about how I experience it... fear is not actually an emotion, but just an instinct.

There's no rule that says I have to accept fear as an emotion. It's my choice not to accept fear as an operator. I accept that I have a surge of adrenaline (which can be interpreted as "fear"), and move on with purpose.

I lived over seven years feeling no emotion at all, neither fear nor love or happiness.

It is a void.

So yes. I can live without any emotion, including fear. It is extremely easy for me to detach from my emotions. This is a fact. This is truth. This is not being dishonest.

And, yes, when I allow myself to have feelings, I can live with tiny neurological and chemical responses to external stimuli which my body processes initially as "fear" without acting or embellishing upon it.

The things that cause a "fear" response in my body are quite mundane, and I actually laugh when I feel it: looking down from heights taller than me (like a stepladder

), many circles bunched together, bugs jumping onto walls, random things I see out of the corner of my eyes that my brain interprets as "dangerous situation".

edit on 8/3/12 by ottobot because: (no reason given)

I apologize. When someone mentions they are without fear, or they live their life without fear, yet they say they feel fear, I take it as a contradiction. No one can live their life without fear, plain and simple. No matter how much someone twists the language, they can't go through life without fear. It would be safer and more accurate to say "I experience fear, but I know how to deal with it." And yes, I realize I'm being maybe a little too critical, but there's no reason to mystify fear or reduce it to something other than its definition:

fear |fi(ə)r|
noun
an unpleasant emotion caused by the belief that someone or something is dangerous, likely to cause pain, or a threat.

In other words, to live without fear, you'd have to skate through life without no realization that you might get hurt, or you might be in a dangerous situation. Fear is telling you something. It's on your side. To do your own instincts a great injustice and to trick yourself into saying fear is merely a negative feeling, when in fact it is there to save your life, is dishonesty... at least in my opinion.

I'm not trying to offend, but I appreciate fear for the many times its saved my life. Maybe it's true and some people don't need it; but then I'd say they need to get out more.

I am Love, as I never feel fear when there is pure Love. Consider what our fellow humans will do for a loved one in the face of danger....the love transcends all fear when faced with the loss of that endearment. Consider the Mother who will give her life for her children if they are in danger...the same as an animal, although that appears to be instinct. It's LOVE hands down!

Originally posted by brianmg5
We are constantly choosing in any given moment to either love or be afraid. It's in every decision we make. I've spent years living in an Us vs Them mentality. Recently it occurred to me that I fear and hate about half of my fellow human beings. I asked myself why. I didn't come up with a clear answer but i did realize something...

I want to love you all. I know many of you have done things that in my opinion are unethical, insensitive, and directly opposed to my ideals. But my ideals don't leave any room for hate.

I know their are many reasons to justify my hate for you but I deny them all in the name of Forgiveness and Love. And by forgiveness I don't mean "you did something obnoxious but since I'm loving I'll tolerate it." What I mean is that I literally recognize that you've done no wrong. You are as perfect as you were when you were born.

Right and wrong are relative terms. One can't exist without the other. If you lived in a perfect world where "wrong" didn't exist, you would have no bearing as to what "right" even means. It would be a non-existent. Just as their is no "up" without "down." Therefore I conclude that making mistakes is a natural part of being a human being. We are perfect, mistakes and all.

Even if you were to convince me that human beings value is defined by their mistakes, I would still rather live in a world where I've forgiven my fellows. Where I look into your eyes and tell myself, "The god in me sees the god in you."

With these words you violate all that is human. You understand that there is right and wrong, up and down, yet you would throw away half of yourself simply because you don't like feeling bad things, such as hate, greed, lust, obsession...

I tell you that denying hate is an abomination to human nature, and this denial is a dangerous lie. Placing a lid on a pan of boiling water doesn't make the water vanish; the lid only serves to let the water boil harder until the pan explodes.

When we deny hate, it is still very much there. Festering, warping our minds, waiting for just the right moment to break free in a wild rampage that makes us reach for a razor blade to slit our wrists, or a gun to kill someone.

Hate is not a bad emotion. It's only what we do with it that is bad. Just as fear keeps us from jumping off a cliff, hate tells us when it's time to leave a nightmare relationship. Hate helps us discover that certain friends aren't really friends at all. Hate lets us know when a job or a boss is making our lives miserable, and it's time to find a new job. Hate tells us when our parents are abusing us. Hate tells us when we should stop atrocities from occurring throughout the world and within our own government.

If hate is not more important than love, then it is just as necessary.

Don't throw hate away. Don't deny it. Listen to what it's telling you.

Wow wow, life is a lot harder and more complicated then "we should all just love each other man!" and then pat each other on the back for such a blanket statement. Don't get me wrong I wish it was that simply but the reason we do love some human beings or fear others is because they want to harm us, force us to do something we don't want to. For instance I fear and loath evil dictators, rapist and serial killers.

Theres just some problems in this world that can't be fixed with a hug man.