How seat belts made a mockery of the Constitution

Originally posted by JIMC5499
I have one simple question.
Where does the Government get the authority to grant us "Privileges"?

through the ongoing practice of State sponsored fraudulent behaviors against the people of this fine country.
ex: driver licenses - non-commercial driver licenses are generally entered into fraudulently ... initiated by the State of receipt

for those willing to learn rather argue, i offer this brief ... www.apfn.org...

As hard as it is for those of us in law enforcement to believe, there is no room for speculation in these court decisions. American citizens do indeed have the inalienable right to use the roadways unrestricted in any manner as long as they are not damaging or violating property or rights of others. Government -- in requiring the people to obtain drivers licenses, and accepting vehicle inspections and DUI/DWI roadblocks without question -- is restricting, and therefore violating, the people's common law right to travel.

Is this a new legal interpretation on this subject? Apparently not. This means that the beliefs and opinions our state legislators, the courts, and those in law enforcement have acted upon for years have been in error. Researchers armed with actual facts state that case law is overwhelming in determining that to restrict the movement of the individual in the free exercise of his right to travel is a serious breach of those freedoms secured by the U.S. Constitution and most state constitutions. That means it is unlawful. The revelation that the American citizen has always had the inalienable right to travel raises profound questions for those who are involved in making and enforcing state laws.

or this one ... www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...
used successfully in 3 separate states as of this posting.

kudos to the OP for bringing this fraudulent behavior specifically designed to extort the public to everyone's attention

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by ronnieray123

 

Yes, because your freedom ends when mine begins. But when your freedom starts costing me money, in taxes, in higher insurance premiums, and higher medical bills, than that is just theft.

when has MY freedom ever cost you money ??
your CHOICE to participate in the scams known as licensing, insurance, taxes is no fault of mine or any other American unless you are gazing upon a mirror.

curious - why did you volunteer to abdicate your responsibility as a citizen of this country?
if you support these industries that operate on the principle of extortion, you are as bad as they are or worse as you have volunteered to help rather hinder them.

Originally posted by harryhaller

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Why do you have to wear a seatbelt? For one, as others have mentioned, driving is a privelage, not a right and you are driving on government roads.

Sorry what?
I can drive anything i own if i want to?
Owning it is a priviledge, using it isn't.

.

What is with the playground arguements on this thread.

It is a privelage because if you don't meet the requirements or responsibilities, then you can't drive. Which is why you can get tickets, must have registration, must be able to see and operate the vehicle.

If someone really wanted to question rights, they would question the whole process, not just seatbelts. They would question having to get a license, registration, pass the eye exam, pass emissions, and any enforcement of those.

Owning a car is a right, traveling is a right, but driving on a public road is not.
WHEN YOU SIGN A DRIVER"S LICENSE, YOU SIGN A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE

And about those roads, "government roads" ... hmmm, same as the government rain in Oregon? Roads don't belong to the government, they belong to the local community for the free passage of all.

Just like all government property but you can't go into Yellowstone and start a wildfire.your rights do not get to infringe on my rights to enjoy that park. Which is why the government can tell you no alcohol on public lands. Your rights to the public roads do not get to impede my rights to use them.
So you don't get to drive drunk on a communal road and threaten my life.
Which means the government can tell you to wear a seatbelt so that you don't splat on the road, costing everyone more money to use it.

But seriously, does that mean that the govt owns the air that aeroplanes fly in too? Big difference between having guardianship over something and owning it. Same difference as government managing your environment, and telling you what to do.

How jeuvanile. The government regulates airspace, not planes the same way it regulates roads.

When there is an accident requring an ambulance service, on average it costs your municipality 50,000 for that incident.
When there is a fatality, it is almost a million dollars.
Just the stupid 20 percent who don't wear sealtbelts cost the nations billions a year.
But seatbelts save about 15,000 people per year. The number of fataltiies is also dropping due to increased safety measures in cars.

Now, it is silly to compare sending people to war, as they volunteered.

So you can volunteer to go kill people and die a glorious martyr death for the oil supply, but you may NOT volunteer to leave a seatbelt off ....

help me here?

I can't help you if you don't know what it is to sign up for the army. They key word here that you used too is VOLUNTEER

4700 soldiers have died in Iraq. That means in the 9 years since the Iraq war was started, 4700 soldiers have died, but 135,000 people have been saved by seatbelts.

Documented civilian deaths from violence
107,789 – 117,776
www.iraqbodycount.org...

Still not as many as seatbelts saved.

Unofficially:
Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,455,590"
costofwar.com...

Unofficial annything is a bad arguement tool to work with. FAIL

Would you like to discuss real numbers?

Like your unofficial ones? LOL

Money flows both ways and so does extortion.
...
I will not pay for your stupidity.

I think you are terribly confused ... about a number of things. You're admitting to happily paying for criminal politicians, but you want to get nasty with someone who has just been in a car accident?

What do politicians have to do with car accidents?

You don't even know what signing up for the military means.

reply to post by nixie_nox

while this statement is true ...

WHEN YOU SIGN A DRIVER"S LICENSE, YOU SIGN A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE

you fail to mention HOW this contract is fraudulently presented with implied requirement.

are you ever reminded, notified or taught that you are entering into this "contract" voluntarily and have the option to refuse ?? no, of course not cause most would opt out.

So you don't get to drive drunk on a communal road and threaten my life

really ?? in what parallel universe ??
ppl drive drunk EVERY day in EVERY state of this union.
they maim and kill at will with minimal reprocussions.
how is that FAIR to any other driver on the roadways ???

ah, and let's not forget, those drunk drivers who maim and kill, also get to keep their licenses.
however, a driver with no infractions other than an inability to pay a bill loses that same "privilege".

sorry but your statistics hold no weight with me as a seatbelt killed my cousin and rendered me sterile. no offense intended, but i'll take my chances without a belt, as is also my right.

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by ronnieray123

 

Yes, because your freedom ends when mine begins. But when your freedom starts costing me money, in taxes, in higher insurance premiums, and higher medical bills, than that is just theft.

when has MY freedom ever cost you money ??
your CHOICE to participate in the scams known as licensing, insurance, taxes is no fault of mine or any other American unless you are gazing upon a mirror.

It is hardly a scam. It prevents any yahoo from stealing a car, causing a wreck to someone else's car, which is their presonal property, and not being responsible for it. A car maybe your personal property, but so is everyone elses'. And you don't get to wreck other people's property. Registration makes sure that your car is in good enough condition to not damage the other vehicle's or the property that we all own and pay for. If you fail to keep your car in good condition, blow a tire, and cross the median and wreck into someone else, I can assure you that you just violated someone else's right. The right to use the road unhindered. You dont' have the right to cost me lost income because I can't work because of your negligence, YOU DO NOT have to right to risk my life.

If you are fool enough to drive without insurance, go ahead and try to cover the cost to fix your vehicle, my vehicle, the medical costs, and the extreme medical costs of not wearing a seatbelt and smaching into the windshield.And then the legal cost of being negligient and I take you to court for pain and suffering, and for missed work as a result of being inured.

THEN, the fire and rescue have to come out, that WE ALL Pay for,to rescue your but and scrape it off the street.

curious - why did you volunteer to abdicate your responsibility as a citizen of this country?
if you support these industries that operate on the principle of extortion, you are as bad as they are or worse as you have volunteered to help rather hinder them.

Nice try but a serious fail. Your rights end where mine begins. Mine end when the next person's begin. Since the road belongs to everybody, I don't have a right to walk onto a street, remove a guard rail that prevents a driver from going over a cliff. I don't have the right to speed through a redlight, slamming into another driver.

I didn't abdicate my rights, I acknowledge, the rights of others, and I don't pretend that I am the only citizen in this country. I am respecting the rights of others, that you don't. Therefor, making me a much better citizen then you.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

while this statement is true ...

WHEN YOU SIGN A DRIVER"S LICENSE, YOU SIGN A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE

you fail to mention HOW this contract is fraudulently presented with implied requirement.

are you ever reminded, notified or taught that you are entering into this "contract" voluntarily and have the option to refuse ?? no, of course not cause most would opt out.

You have the right to not take the license, and then to ride a bike or take public transportation.Before you get that license, you are required to take a test that checks to see if you are a competent driver, and that you know what the rules of the road are. How much depends on the state. In my state, you have to take a 3 week course that tells you what is required of you, what the rules of the road are, before you can get your license.

You have had plenty of notice.

So you don't get to drive drunk on a communal road and threaten my life

really ?? in what parallel universe ??
ppl drive drunk EVERY day in EVERY state of this union.

And it is illegal everywhere and you have your license suspended or revoked as a result.

[they maim and kill at will with minimal reprocussions.

Jail time, a suspended license, fines, and a breathilizer on your car are pretty good repercussions.Seems your the one in a parallel universe.

how is that FAIR to any other driver on the roadways ???

Destruction of other's property and maiming them is pretty unfair.

[ah, and let's not forget, those drunk drivers who maim and kill, also get to keep their licenses.

When?
And the penalties you face are dependant on the state and judicial system.

[however, a driver with no infractions other than an inability to pay a bill loses that same "privilege".

Everybody starts off with the exact same privilages when they get a license.

[sorry but your statistics hold no weight with me as a seatbelt killed my cousin and rendered me sterile.

How did a seatbelt kill your cousin?
Seatbelts protect your life, they don't prevent the injury from major accidents. Just like an airbag will give you a broken nose, but if it keeps you from flying out the windshield, resulting in death.

no offense intended, but i'll take my chances without a belt, as is also my right.

Give me your name and number so I can tell the police to look out for you.

Then if you have an accident, you can forfeit any repayment from the insurance company, and you can cover all costs on your own, out of your own pocket, so mine doesn't go up from your stupidity, to cover the cost of stupid drivers.
Then if you do cause an accident, and you don't get killed, you have removed the benefit of a fair case for the other driver. Maybe they can just blame you since you are not there to defend yourself, forever being known as the negligient driver who killed themselves and risked someone else's life.

I have had seatbelts save my life many times. I was driving only 10 yards to cross a road, when I got rear ended by a 9 ton mail truck that lost its breaks. If I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt, I would of been toast.

People who claim that seatbelts caused a death or they wouldn't of been hurt as a result of wearing them are usually found to be pretty inaccurate when actually questioned on the situation.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
What is with the playground arguements on this thread.
How jeuvanile.
I can't help you if you don't know what it is to sign up for the army.
Still not as many as seatbelts saved.
Unofficial annything is a bad arguement tool to work with. FAIL
You don't even know what signing up for the military means.

You insult me.
You insult us with your arrogance, bad spelling, and ignorance.

reply to post by harryhaller


Grammar nazis is the tactic of people who don't have the knowledge to add anything of value. And I will take that as a confirmation since you can't.

reply to post by nixie_nox
you are so wrong it's downright scary.
public transportation is not free.
i am in no way relegated by the weather as a bicycle is.
my right to travel shall no be infringed, period.

laws do not stop drunk driving, they barely punish it.
laws do not stop illegals from driving, they are told to "go get a license".
laws do not stop ppl from killing other ppl while operating their automobiles.
laws that infringe upon my right to travel are invalid, period.

your strawman arguments are pointless as my right to travel is not a privilege granted by any authority greater than myself.

blah, blah, blah ... penalties for what exactly ??
exercising my right or damaging others ??
you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
there should be -0- penalty for exercising a right.

cousin: on her way to work at the Reservation, she was broad-sided by a sleepy mac truck driver.
she was so severely damaged by the seatbelt that surgeons couldn't save her.
(torn aorta discovered too late)

i don't do airbags either ... if they are loaded, they are removed, immediately.

i am not saying that you shouldn't have access to these items/devices, however, i am saying that it is my right to refuse them.

Give me your name and number so I can tell the police to look out for you.

well now, nothing quite like a troll openly revealing themselves.
have a nice day.

I totally agree.

I don't know where I was the day they asked the citizens if driving was a Right or a privilege Someone just popped up one day and declared it so and those who disagree are heretics.
Seems to me there are a lot of things we should be voting about, and not just tax hikes.
I wouldn't mind voting 2x a month to help them figure out the problems they can not seem to figure out on their own.
Go ahead and ask us if we want a balanced budget amendment. Then both sides can stop arguing about it and move on to something else. And if you guys get stuck again on something we will be right here to help you out.

This once a year voting business don't do the trick

Here in NH, we have NO Seat Belt law for those over 18. NONE! Nor are helmets required for motorcycles. Also, Car Insurance in NOT mandatory. Don't need it at all! Get pulled over, cop will ask "License and Registration". No Gun Control of any kind. No Sales tax, No Income tax. And now, thanks to recently passed bill that became law, we have "Jury Nullification". LIVE FREE OR DIE!

I agree that withholding money in order to get legislation passed is wrong, but I just can't see why the government would benefit from forcing us to wear seat belts, unless it really is for our safety. I believe the number of people killed in car accidents from not wearing seat belts became too high to ignore, just as it did with DWI's.

reply to post by Northwdsnh


Oh yeah, I forgot, Fireworks are legal. Sold in stores. I know there is more I am forgetting.....

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

you are so wrong it's downright scary.
public transportation is not free.
i am in no way relegated by the weather as a bicycle is.
my right to travel shall no be infringed, period.

I never said you don't have a right to travel. I already explained that you have a right to travel, you have a right to own a car, but how you operate on a road is what is legislated. Everyone has a right to travel unhibited.

What people on this thread do not understand, is that no one's right to travel can inhibit someone else's right to travel.

laws do not stop drunk driving, they barely punish it.
laws do not stop illegals from driving, they are told to "go get a license".
laws do not stop ppl from killing other ppl while operating their automobiles.

No amount of laws stop people from ciminal behavior, period. But you also do not need to encourage it. What if there are no drinking and driving laws, and no repercussions, what would happen then?

laws that infringe upon my right to travel are invalid, period.

Do you have a right to put other's lives at risk?

your strawman arguments are pointless as my right to travel is not a privilege granted by any authority greater than myself.

You can travel whereever you want, but you don't get to operate multi ton machinery without some guidance, especially when you operate that machinery around other people.

blah, blah, blah ... penalties for what exactly ??

Obviously you have never been in court for a DUI, I have lived with several people who have, it is a nasty, expensive, time consuming process, and they haven't touched a drop of alcohol since.


You do not have the right to put other people's lives and property at risk.

you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
there should be -0- penalty for exercising a right.

You do not have the right to put other people's lives and property at risk.

cousin: on her way to work at the Reservation, she was broad-sided by a sleepy mac truck driver.

she was so severely damaged by the seatbelt that surgeons couldn't save her.
(torn aorta discovered too late).

I am truley sorry about your cousin and it sounds like a horrible accident. BUT

that is why there are now laws against truck driver's that limit how long they can drive in a day.
He was a negligient driver and should of gotten a nap instead of trying to make time. His decision took her life. He removed her right to life.
See how that works?
And now there is legislation that should prevent some of that.

The seatbelt didn't kill her, the truck did.
I am sorry but there is not enough safety equipment in the world to protect from some accidents, and semis are one of them.


.

i don't do airbags either ... if they are loaded, they are removed, immediately..

Your choice. But if you are ever in an accident and demand money from the insurance company, good luck with that.

All you people must think you are superheros and never get into accidents and never make a mistake or think someone is never going to hit you.

Give me your name and number so I can tell the police to look out for you.

well now, nothing quite like a troll openly revealing themselves.
have a nice day.

Nope, I am a mother and I want stupid irresponsible drivers off the road.

Lets talk about rights.

I was sitting still when I was rearended by a car going over 50pmh, it was a straight hit since the driver never saw me since he was texting.

I am now waiting for my second surgery.

I was hit so hard that when I recoiled, my seat was knocked flat, rending my seatbelt useless. I was pushed into oncoming traffic. If I didn't have great reflexes, I would not of pulled myself out and would of been killed.

Now explain to me exactly, why ignoring state laws, why this guy has the right to injure me and put me in pain for a year, having to go through multiple surgeries.

Why he gets to keep me out of work.

Why he gets to total my car.

And why he almost left my son without a mother.

Exactly how does he have the right to leave my son without a guardian for life?

Please explain this to me.

reply to post by Northwdsnh


UMMMMMM

You might want to double check that.

reply to post by Northwdsnh


It was illegal for a long time here too but someone found a loophole that allows groundworks. I don't know who found it but now you can buy loads of groundworks, yay!

They never bothered to close it.

reply to post by ronnieray123


The reason is not to protect the person, however it is to protect the money making tax paying person. This is really the reason why there is law. They are protecting thier pockets. When one person dies, a tax paying money spending person dies. Police are NOT there to protect the citizen rather it is there to protect corporate interest. Like theft for example. Something is stolen, corporate doesn't make it's money and neither does the fed. Instead the product is sold on black market with no tax paid on the item. Drugs, because millions of unpaid tax dollars are being made and the fed is not getting thier share. It's the same all around. Realize that police is not there to protect the public, it is there to protect the pockets of the corporate.

Originally posted by fltcui
I hate the seatbelt law primarily because I don't like the government telling me I HAVE to do something.
However, this is not a constitutional issue. Driving is not a right, it's a privilege so if you don't want to wear a seat belt then don't get into a car. Also, this is not a 10th Amendment issue. The state can choose not to implement the seat belt law realizing that they will be forgoing federal government monies for highways.

You are paying taxes to build and maintain roads. You have a right to travel.
Therefore you have a right to drive.

If government truly wanted people in cars to be protected in the event of a crash, they should mandate that all vehichles be constructed with roll bars all around. Have a friend who drove in those crazy crash races. He has been in many crash events and never got a scratch. Likely he was wearing a seat belt, but this alone is not enough.

All vehicles could be Much safer. So it costs more. If it saved lives and devastating injuries wouldn't it be well worth it?

Kids definitly need to be fastened down. I know a lady whose baby was on the front seat beside her. Crash and the baby rolled onto the floor - died.

Originally posted by Northwdsnh
Here in NH, we have NO Seat Belt law for those over 18. NONE! Nor are helmets required for motorcycles. Also, Car Insurance in NOT mandatory. Don't need it at all! Get pulled over, cop will ask "License and Registration". No Gun Control of any kind. No Sales tax, No Income tax. And now, thanks to recently passed bill that became law, we have "Jury Nullification". LIVE FREE OR DIE!

Wow, so what percentage of motorists are insured do you think? Also to OP, be sure and let your insurance company know so they can raise your rates. Because it is the "law" with insurance companies or you pay higher rates.