US/Israel Relations

It would appear that both candidates have Israel's back as well they should.

This is the quote that inspired this thread. After not receiving an answer I decided to start a new thread because this is a topic in and of itself and I didn't want to bring the other thread off topic. This was my reply:

I don't understand this whole mentality of how the US is supposed to protect and back Israel in all it's actions, offensive or otherwise. What exactly do we get in return for sending them as much money and support as we do? (Other than an unstable Middle East)

US foreign aid to Israel

According to the FAS, the US has given absurd amounts of money to Israel.

Table B-1:

1949-1996 $68B
..
2009 $2.58B
2010 $2.80B
2011 $3.03B
2012 $3.09B

According to my math skills, the last 4 years alone the US government has given Israel $11.5B. So what does the US get as a ROI? US/Israel ROI

There isn’t enough space here to discuss the relative merits of the expenditures in these other countries, but we already know the critically important return the U.S. gets for helping its oldest, most trusted ally in the strategically important Middle East — the most powerful military force in that region, the pro-U.S., pro-West and democratic Jewish state of Israel.

Here’s how.

First, it’s important to remember that about 70 percent of the $3 billion in aid must be used by Israel to purchase U.S. military equipment. This provides real support for U.S. high-tech defense jobs and contributes to maintaining our industrial base. This helps the United States stay at the very top in the manufacturing of our own cutting-edge military munitions, aircraft, vehicles, missiles and virtually every defensive and offensive weapon in the U.S. arsenal — with the added contribution of Israel’s renowned technical know-how.

Second, the United States and Israel are jointly developing state-of-the-art missile defense capabilities in the David’s Sling and Arrow 3 systems. These two technologies build on the already successful Arrow 2, jointly developed by our two countries, which is already providing missile defense security to Israel and U.S. civilians and ground troops throughout the region. The knowledge the United States gains from these efforts also has a positive multiplier effect on applications to other U.S. military and non-military uses and U.S. jobs.

Third, given Israel’s strategic location on the Mediterranean, with access to the Red Sea and other vital international shipping and military lanes of commerce and traffic, it is critically important to the United States that Israel continues to serve as a port of call for our troops, ships, aircraft and intelligence operations. Israel also has permitted the U.S. to stockpile arms, fuel, munitions and other supplies on its soil to be accessed whenever the United States needs them in the region.

Fourth, America’s special relationship with Israel provides the U.S. with real-time, minute-to-minute access to one of the best intelligence services in the world: Israel’s. With Israeli agents gathering intelligence and taking action throughout the Middle East and, literally, around the world, regarding al Qaida, Hezbollah, Iran and Hamas, among others, the U.S. receives invaluable information about anti-U.S. and terrorist organizations and regimes.

So to me this guy's answers sounds like a load of bunk. First point, 70% of US aid must go to US military equipment which means US manufacturers/US jobs which sounds like a great idea on it's own. But why doesn't Israel have to defend itself without our tax dollars propping it up?

Second, jointly developing missile systems sounds like Israel missile systems and who ever they decide to sell it to. Are these missiles going to be deployed on the US coasts to protect us? I don't think so.

Third and fourth points, I can actually understand these from a military perspective. All acts of war require a beachhead/airfield/intelligence/etc. I believe Israel is the US's spearhead to destabilize the Middle East. That's totally my opinion but I believe the Palestinians and the rest of the Middle East would agree with me.

So what does ATS have to say about it? All opinions welcome, just please keep things civilized.

what bothers me is that you get tools like romney saying that america should and has to be the leader of the free world, champion and defender of democracy, then it supports a military occupation of an entire race of people by another race of people.

especially when its done by americas greatest best friend forever.

It always seemed like it was the other way around to me. Like we were their bitch and we kept sucking up to them. Interesting way of looking at it, though, I guess.
It actually makes more sense this way to be quite honest!
S+F!

Israel is nothing more than a US "spy" country in the middle east. Plain and simple. They also come in handy as a scapegoat by giving the muslims someone to hate more than the US. You can be assured that ALL the nukes
Israel has were given to them by the US.

...and cue the avalanche of antisemitism cries and a completely derailed thread. This is one of the most divisive topics on ATS or most places for that matter.

I applaud the posting of facts in support of discussion. I hope they survive more than one page.

Via Con Dios!

"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq"

"I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won't get in our way"


-Binyamin Netanyahu



"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001.



Draw your own conclusions.

reply to post by ABNARTY


I guarantee you it won't/ The antisemites love to shout down these kinds of threads.

And they wonder why people are critical of them.

But here's A site for about what Israel actually trades with America.

www.israeltrade.org...

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


The antisemite card so soon?

This discussion is about the NATION of israel, not the jewish religion.

By your logic, if we question Mexico's govt collusion with the drug cartel, then that's an attack on christianity from us?

WTF

The antisemitism card is played out and does not belong in a rational, civilized adult discussion.

You should retreat and regroup. Come back when you have better talking points, imo.

Isreal is our property. Many people beleive that isreal controls us, but it is the other way around. The jews cant do anything without asking their daddy for permission first. Which basically means we have country sized military base right smack dab in themiddle of all of our problems.

I'd rather that we end our relations with them altogether. If they had to fend for themselves they would quit acting like the annoying poodle next door and learn how to work better with their neighbors.

Originally posted by randomname
what bothers me is that you get tools like romney saying that america should and has to be the leader of the free world, champion and defender of democracy, then it supports a military occupation of an entire race of people by another race of people.

especially when its done by americas greatest best friend forever.

I agree. There is no evidence Iran is developing nuclear weapons but the US/Israel led Nato is pushing more and more sanctions on them. Romney has said he is willing to back Israel in a war vs. Iran. I believe Obama hasn't ruled it out either. Poke a bear/cat/dog long enough he's going to snap back. I believe the Stuxnet virus was just the tip of the iceberg with Iranian nuclear scientists the icing on the cake.

Originally posted by ABNARTY
...and cue the avalanche of antisemitism cries and a completely derailed thread. This is one of the most divisive topics on ATS or most places for that matter.

I applaud the posting of facts in support of discussion. I hope they survive more than one page.

Via Con Dios!

I'm trying my best to argue with facts and logic because I believe this topic is too important to blur with pleas to emotion and other divisive tactics. Thanks for the support.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

The antisemite card so soon?

I can't speak for Snoopy but I don't see that as antisemitism. If those quotes are true it would advance the idea that the US is Israels puppet. I believe it works both ways. The Jewish Zionists move the US one way, then the US Christians move the US in the same direction but from a different angle. It's kind of like the US political system, we can vote R or D, either way the people who pay enough money get their guy in no matter what.

reply to post by Snoopy1978


Oh the whining "we aren't racists" so soon?

Whine some more.

The antisemites always gang up on people who support Israel. They always love to shout them down.

That is a fact, and has everything to do with the people who protest Israel. The vast majority of them are neo-Nazi antisemites or Islamic Muslims..

Whine some more. It does not impress me.

I know a lot about bs, and whining about being called racists, when you're a racist, is a whole lot of it.

Go ahead, whine some more.

Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine. Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.
Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine. Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.
Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine. Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.
Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine. Whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.

Most of you are antisemites who hate Jews.

Hitler was proud he was doing God's work, you should be proud and admit it.

But you can't because you know you can't win, so you have to resort to dirty, dishonest whining "I am not a racist I just criticize Israel" crap.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool people all of the time.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly. Libbre David 37

A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17

When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.

Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D

On the house of the Goy [Goy means unclean, and is the disparaging term for a non-Jew] one looks as on the fold of cattle.

Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII

When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156

That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the remaining ones are contemptible and hateful.

That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general.

A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonored.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348

If a goy killed a goy or a Jew he is responsible, but if a Jew killed a goy he is not responsible.

Tosefta, Aboda Zara, VIII, 5

who's the racist?

who thinks they are above all other Humans?

oh, that's right..

the "Chosen People"

that's who..

Back to the OP. Those sums stated are the US military aid amounts if I am not mistaken.
Add to that all the other avenues that has money flowing to Israel, not only from the US but from Europe too, as well as very favourable trade deals that the rest of the world could only dream about.

So, one has to ask, where does all that money go? Looking at some of the big recent protests in Israel, and the call now for the introduction of "austerity measures" upon the population, it would appear that they are getting screwed the same as the rest of us. And there was me thinking that it was religiously frowned upon to swindle a fellow jew, with that only being allowed for us goys and gals!

The idea that it is in fact the USA that controls Israel is laughable. You only have to look at all the politicians who make their regular trips over there to grovel at the feet of their masters, especially presidential hopefuls. If it were indeed the other way around, they'd be summoning the Israelis to the US to lay down the law instead.

I have a half-baked tin foil hat conspiracy about US - Israel relations. I don't have time to give a fleshed out post right now, though. Think back to the Knights Templar. I think there is something in Jerusalem, a piece of ancient technology perhaps. Something important that can't be moved. I think that's why the land was taken away from the original inhabitants after WW2, and that's why the US tries to stay on Israel's good side. But I don't think this thing, whatever it is, is being used for the good of humanity.

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


That's an interesting concept. I love hearing stories about the Templars and do believe a lot of modern day conspiracies started with them. At least since they started the whole fractional reserve banking, or so I've heard.

America runs a military budget of 700 bill. By comparison 3 billion a year to have your own private army almost 200.000 strong is a small investment and a lot of bang for the buck.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
I have a half-baked tin foil hat conspiracy about US - Israel relations. I don't have time to give a fleshed out post right now, though. Think back to the Knights Templar. I think there is something in Jerusalem, a piece of ancient technology perhaps. Something important that can't be moved. I think that's why the land was taken away from the original inhabitants after WW2, and that's why the US tries to stay on Israel's good side. But I don't think this thing, whatever it is, is being used for the good of humanity.

It couldnt be having a beachhead where most the worlds easily accessible oil is? Has to be some kind of ancient technology we cant move or replicate for some reason?