FBI raids homes in search of "anti-government literature"

reply to post by muzzleflash

If your title is anywhere near accurate, this is War.

Where have you been? Oh geesh... you already missed all the fun stuff...(the light handed tactics)..that destroy all your chances of operating a business or getting a decent job.....they bother your family and friends and warn them about you ..then you have some bozo listening to every call coming in and out of your home and in some cases find the ominious white paint line marked on your path to your home and door (some of you know what that means).. Get pulled over and followed for no particular reason but to let you know who's on top....
Really baby.... *hands you a coffee...wake up it's about to get interesting.

Originally posted by superluminal11
As Obama said to Romney

Stop your whining-

You can criticize your gov as much as you want and its encouraged, just don't be organizing in masses wearing black and destroying property like Black Block anarchist hooligans.

So you disagree with the French and Jewish folks who formed insurgencies and destroyed Nazi property?
Or was that OK because you disagree with the Nazi ideology, but in the case of America, it's accepted because you agree with this government's ideology?

And the people who destroy property aren't real anarchists. Anarchists are "against rule" which means they cannot fairly harm anyone's liberty as that would be an "attempt to rule them".

why aren't they going after michael moore and noam chomsky.

they release anti-government literature every year.

Originally posted by randomname
why aren't they going after michael moore and noam chomsky.

they release anti-government literature every year.

Good question.

I guess $ = Freedom.

And no $ = No Freedom.

Anyone who knows anything about the so called "legal system" knows this is true and has been for a long time.

reply to post by randomname


That's not entirely true, you can target the left or the right and be just dandy, as Moore and Chomsky, but if you just unilaterally despise both and all, yea, you get the picture.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
This incident has political motivation for the raid written all over it.
If it didn't, they wouldn't be listing "anarchist" related topics with the "suspected crime" getting mixed in now would they? This is an attack on those who disagree with the government, clearly.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b082a97d915b.gif[/atsimg]


I think you've nailed it on the head

I don't justify this at all. In today's America, labeling someone as a "terrorist" means that they aren't going to have any constitutional rights. Is it really any surprise that the "war on terror" has turned into a "war on American citizens with certain political opinions?"

Furthermore, is there any evidence that these people did anything wrong other than have their own opinions?

I looked into it, and found out that they might have damaged corporate and / or government property.

the homes were vacant, they were looking for the previous occupants...nobody got arrested or hurt....subpeona was from a grand jury where a "criminal investigation" was being investigated.
if you commit a felony by destroying private property, you home will be searched. evidence will be confiscated. if you have literature advocating the destruction of public or private property and/or harming people, that is considered evidence. dots....connect

Originally posted by darkbake
I don't justify this at all. In today's America, labeling someone as a "terrorist" means that they aren't going to have any constitutional rights. Is it really any surprise that the "war on terror" has turned into a "war on American citizens with certain political opinions?"

Furthermore, is there any evidence that these people did anything wrong other than have their own opinions?

edit on 1-8-2012 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

yes...
2nd line

Just as the king of England did in the 1700's.

It only caused outrage leading to the start of the revolution.

That as well as taxation without representation. Of course we pay our taxes to the federal reserve (which is a private corporation we don't have any say in)

They need proof of political ideology to pin to their criminal activity so they can "legally" call them terrorists.

After all, if these criminals were acting out with a political agenda, they're far more dangerous than your run-of-the-mill criminals and should probably be indefinitely detained, right?

Originally posted by jimmyx
the homes were vacant, they were looking for the previous occupants...

You know, it is getting downright DANGEROUS to move these days. When I moved, the cops were coming to my house every night, but I worked 3rd shift. My boyfriend was driving by my house, lol, checkin' up on me I guess, and thought I was in trouble with the law. He asked me but I didn't know what he was talking about.

One night, I took a nap before work and someone was banging on my door and yelling at me. I stumbled down the strairs and was saying let me get a robe and they were like open this door NOW or we'll break it down.

Previous occupant had a drug warrant or something.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Oh yea, America is now the new Nazi's. Terrible.

How wonder how long they think they can keep it up?

When I first read the title I figured it was some noob connecting some vague dots to 1984. Not the case.

This is just nuts. Plain and simple. Folks its time we put our twinkies down and do something. What does the US do when we are the ones who need help from a tyranical goverment?

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
Folks its time we put our twinkies down and do something.

This entire situation here at home could very well become a Libya or Syria very quickly if the twinkie is put back in the box.

And ultimately it would become the very anti-government movement they fear..?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
And the spray paint excuse is bogus. Thousands of kids are graffiti artists and it doesn't require the FBI to raid them??? For spray paint? Couldn't local police handle it normally?

This incident has political motivation for the raid written all over it.
If it didn't, they wouldn't be listing "anarchist" related topics with the "suspected crime" getting mixed in now would they? This is an attack on those who disagree with the government, clearly.

Exactly.

Have a political ideology that the establishment doesn't agree with + SUSPICION of involvement with some sort of light weight "crime" like vandalism = FBI raids. Oh Come ON! Yeah that's normal. Nothing weird, or heavy handed, or completely insane at all.

Even if no one got arrested, this is an intimidation tactic.

This will only get worse, although it may take a year or two. They seem to finally understand the value of sneaking up on the populace with these sorts of tactics. We will see more of this sort of thing, escalating to arrests, and when that is common place...? Who knows what they will do to stamp out and intimidate those that have the mettle to continue to voice dissent.

reply to post by silent thunder


In 1798 the 5th Congress of the United States passed The Alien and Sedition Acts that, among other things, criminalized criticisms of government. John Adams was the President who signed these acts of legislation into "law" and just weeks before this had arrested Benjamin Franklin's grandson, Benjamin Franklin Bache for calling Adams a bald toothless incompetent fool. Chief Justice John Marshall had not yet been appointed to the Supreme Court so the notion of judicial review was not a legal issue at this point. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both went on a campaign of nullification instead.

From the Wikipedia article on Alien and Sedition Acts:

Chernow argues that neither Jefferson nor Madison sensed that they had sponsored measures as inimical as the Alien and Sedition Acts themselves. Historian Garry Wills argued "Their nullification effort, if others had picked it up, would have been a greater threat to freedom than the misguided [alien and sedition] laws, which were soon rendered feckless by ridicule and electoral pressure"[31] The theoretical damage of the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions was "deep and lasting, and was a recipe for disunion".[30] George Washington was so appalled by them that he told Patrick Henry that if "systematically and pertinaciously pursued", they would "dissolve the union or produce coercion".[30] The influence of Jefferson's doctrine of states' rights reverberated right up to the Civil War and beyond.[2] Future president James Garfield, at the close of the Civil War, said that Jefferson's Kentucky Resolution "contained the germ of nullification and secession, and we are today reaping the fruits".

Take note that historian Gary Wills probably takes great comfort in the fact that the FBI have raided homes to seize materials expressing ideas as he certainly believes that the nullification of an oppressive act of legislation is a "greater threat to freedom" than the act of oppression itself.

The U.S. has a long and rich history of trampling all over the rights of people and in terms of silencing speech and press, it only took 5 sessions of Congress and the second President of the United States, and just 12 years after the adoption of the Constitution for the United States of America to get there.

Would Americans breathe in the indoctrination of "historian" Gary Wills, or will they stand tall and fight for freedom?

If these suspects were actually involved in destruction of property then there needs to be evidence, if not proving, supporting that. Books on or by Che Guevara and Chairman Mao do nothing to further that aim. Of course, as Lennon and McCartney once sang:

If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow...you know it's gonna be all right...all right...all right...

The rule of law has always mattered and the path to hell is most assuredly paved by good intentions. Regardless of the Justice Departments aim, it is their due process that matters. Gaining an indictment is one thing:

The Grand Jury would indict a ham sandwich

Getting past the arraignment, and here I would hope these people fully understand the obligation of challenging jurisdiction, and if they don't, then the government still has to convince a jury which is hardly a Grand Jury but is instead a legal process where the burden of proof lies solely with the government.

This is not to excuse this odious act by the Justice Department, simply a warning to all that this is the government we have in the U.S. and if any of us want someone to blame, consider this:

You get the government you deserve.

It's actually concerning me a lot.

See, when **I** become the "NEW MODERATE" I know that this country is in deep whohaka.

People are fed up - and here, I'm seeing people so poor that they are getting in trouble with the law for it - IE bills unpaid/vulture creditors...personal disputes blowing up into threats and criminal activity over trivial amounts of money or goods that weren't as promised/hoped for.....

Here the courts can't keep up with it. It's not VIOLENT BAD crime. It's piddly stuff, most of which can be traced back to lack or work or money and financial stress.

So now you've got a lot of INCOMERS into the wonderful lack of justice for the poor system we have - and they ARE POOR. Many NEWLY poor.

And then, you've got social media constantly calling attention to police brutality, and uh, it is happening.

That's the recipe right there for nitroglycerin. Somebody just has to DROP the twinkie cause it's full of it.

It's just something I feel, but also something I'm seeing.
Occupy was a big hope/push for some people, but it was sabotaged from the start, and I really do believe if peaceful revolution is not possible, it WILL become violent, and today....woah......today I've seen a lot of things that make me afraid.

And, contrary to what some people might think, I love this country and I love my people, but they are a hardheaded violent lot. If it starts, it won't be pretty for any of us and I don't think it will end well. NO ONE will benefit from violent revolution.

I have said it in several post before, but they have manuvered the law to their favor little by little until they now have a magic phrase. " Domestic Terrorist "

You will hear that a lot in the comming days. It now has the power to strip a American of all their constitutional rights and allow them to be tucked away where they pose no threat to the establishment.

Times comming boys and girls. People are gonna have to pick sides.

you guy are missing a KEY point here.

clothing and related articles worn during the commision of the offenses. meaning they commited a crime wearing specific clothing, carrying specific flags.... get the picture?

not because they were Anarchists. but because they were criminals. whatever they did, it was a crime, and had NOTHING to do with their political views...

the warrant says to look for anti-goverment literature and material, sooo notebooks, diagrams, letters...

this is called evidence... again, they commited a crime.