FBI raids homes in search of "anti-government literature"

reply to post by NAMTERCES


Yeah a great example of pre-emptive policing is the hand-cuffed detainment and search of Mike Whalen and company when his house was raided before the RNC in St. Paul. Probable cause? Independent media coverage of the RNC. Mike Whalen was a long time organizer of a local anarchist bookstore in Minneapolis.

According to I-Witness reporter Eileen Clancy, an FBI agent came to Mike Whalen's house on Iglehart Avenue this morning, looking for an individual who was not present at the time. This afternoon, police broke into the house with guns drawn, detaining Whalen and the journalists for hours as dozens of reporters from all over the country stood outside, kept on the opposite side of the street by police orders

Yeah so the FBI rummaged through their private information

"They cannot raid a news office without a subpoena – but they did. This is journalists' work product." Police eventually produced a subpoena, similar to the ones that have been used in all of the half-dozen raids during the past 18 hours. "These are pre-emptive raids," Clancy insisted. "Police are targeting people who are hear to protect free speech rights."

When the RNC came to the Twin Cities I knew it was going to be an imperial military crackdown so I biked out of town on an old three speed. On the way out I was harrassed by police from across the street -- yelling at me for biking in the street. I've never been harrassed like that just for biking in the street in Minneapolis which is now rated the number one bike friendly city in the U.S. but because the RNC was in town the police were out of control.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

Uh-huh...

I'm sure some indeed are. But you are overstating it by several orders of magnitude to say that most are "evangelical Christians" or "racist".

I've been to several of the rallies and meetings of the Tea Party...and a good number, dare I say the majority, are nothing of the sort...sorry.

Though it could vary from region to region, I suppose.

You see, this is the problem with politics today...all too many lump "everyone" into one convenient bogeyman. All Teaparty members are thus... All Occupiers are this... All dems are whatever... All reps are yadda...

...and on and on and for ever on. No wonder nothing ever gets accomplished. We're all too busy finding bogeymen to blame, rather than friends to work with...

edit on 8/2/2012 by seagull because: (no reason given)

I would whole heartedly agree with your last statement. You are most likely correct in the fact that it varies from region to region, I am in the KC metro area, and in my original message, I indicated the ones that I had met, so may not hold true for the entire movement. As with any movement, there is a small fringe that draws attention, however, that being said, the Tea Party is no longer what it started out as, and has attracted some serious bad elements, the Koch brothers being the worst.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


How does the Tea party plan to dictate when they advocate drastically reducing the control and power the federal government has over the people? It seems a bit contradictory.
The difference between Occupy and the Tea Party is the fact that Tea partiers have chosen to revolt against the establishment by using the existing system, drafting and supporting anti-establishment candidadates they agree with and voting for them.(see Ted Cruz victory this week) That's how you do it peacefully.
Many elements of Occupy, on the other hand,(Black Bloc included) have advocated for more militant strategies. Many in the movement see the system as damaged beyond repair, therefore deeming it necessary to tear down the old in order to replace it with the new.

Which sounds more extreme to you?

This documentary proves that the FBI paid someone to then dramatically encourage a couple naive young adults to make a Molatov Cocktail for the RNC --

The FBI routinely uses informants as provocateurs as Cointelpro proved.

The "terrorist" attacks are no different. Who knows if "black block anarchists" are not really FBI informants. Some of them definitely are.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


I don't agree with entrapment.
That being said, if one of my "buddies" stops by and suggests I blow something up, I would probably have to respectfully decline.
It's a choice.

reply to post by Bobaganoosh


I have a feeling it's what they want.

Originally posted by Phenomium
reply to post by deathlord

 

Yes, these are Americans. This is what happens when the cops bully the public. Who says that Americans have to take this abuse lying down? When the government gets out of control, the public always shows them who is really in charge. This government is way out of line shredding our constitution and creating oppressive and abusive laws and the public reacts either THIS way or by lying down like cowards and letting the police abuse them. This is what happens when you try to enslave a country's people who have enjoyed freedom and are now getting everything taken from them simply so oil companies and International bankers can have all of their money and have total control over them while abusing them and their families. If they don't want this type of behavior from Americans (or whatever you choose to call people who have had it up to their eyes with abuse)...then they shouldn't wipe their @ss with our constitution and tell us they are doing it for our own good. I am surprised that these riots are not country wide by now. Yes, innocent people's businesses get trampled. For them, I feel sorry, however, the government is starting a war with the people and during war all kinds of people...innocent and guilty suffer. It's the nature of the game. You must first blame those who started the war before blaming those whom they have angered to the point of violence. I didn't hear you refer to the blackhanded police force that started this mess in the first place. Why would you automatically side with the very catalyst of this whole situation?

edit on 2-8-2012 by Phenomium because: (no reason given)

Well if they were attacking more than the innocent then there would be something to be said for this war. Please find me one instance where they have attacked and vandalized a government agency or military base, something actually government related than just ordinary people trying to run a business who now face a severe blow to their finances because of some people "fighting" the government. Not to mention there are also plenty of opportunistic thieves who loot these places after they are broken into during the riots, so much chaos going on that they get away completely free because of some worthless protest that isn't even attacking the government.

You can go ahead and follow any rumors you want about how it started, but the fact of the matter is, so far only the innocent have suffered because of riots like these and not the government at all. I just don't like to see people trying to live a normal life getting ruined because someone was "fighting the government". These people need to pay for their crimes, just because you are fighting the system doesn't give you the right to act like a wild animal and destroy private property that others worked hard for. Though from your thinking we should just let these people go free and not pay for any damage the caused, I had no idea protesting against the government meant I had a free pass to break any law I feel like.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
This thread is being a little too vague and slightly misleading. The reason for the warrant and seizures was because there had been destruction of government property (probably by spray-painting since they're looking for paint), interstate travel with intention to riot, etc. Says so right at the beginning of the warrant.

They're looking for the paint, clothes (and other items) that were worn during the painting.

Basically, somebody got caught spray-painting government property and that's what this warrant appears to pertain to.

Someone decided to cherry-pick one aspect of the warrant and spread that around.

edit on 1-8-2012 by _BoneZ_ because: (no reason given)

Stupid anarchists. Busted for spay paint. That is like the bank robber getting busted for jaywalking before he even finishes casing his first bank.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

So your saying that "Vandals" and "Thugs" cannot organize? They even have a name for themselves and a uniform. That's seems organized to me. They are involved in criminal acts all over the country are they not?

What's their end game? Peace and Love?

What is with you and your love of strawman arguments? How do you extrapolate from my example of Rotary's and Kiwanis that vandals cannot organize? What I refuted was that being organized across state lines does not grant the federal government the right to discard the Constitutional restraints placed upon them.

Don't make the mistake that I am a supporter of the Occupy movement. I catch crap from both sides of that mess because I fight for the rule of law. I may be thoroughly unimpressed with the Occupy movement just as I am thoroughly unimpressed with your inability to speak directly to an argument, but I will fight for your right to make strawman arguments just the same as I will fight for the right of any accused vandal to enjoy due process of law.

Your rule of law arguments seem to only reflect your rule of law. With no credential put forth, I for one am not buying you "rule of law" which seems to be your answer for everything. You list your self as a writer, so I have no idea, however, we are all allowed to list ourselves as anything we want. Your condescending attitude to everyone is what makes me believe you sir are a fraud.

reply to post by BubbaJoe

Your rule of law arguments seem to only reflect your rule of law. With no credential put forth, I for one am not buying you "rule of law" which seems to be your answer for everything. You list your self as a writer, so I have no idea, however, we are all allowed to list ourselves as anything we want. Your condescending attitude to everyone is what makes me believe you sir are a fraud.

It is hypocritical to call someone you believe to be a fraud "sir". The Rule of Law is a set of principles available for anyone online to learn them for themselves. Or don't and keep entrenching yourself in your ignorance so you can feel just in calling those who have done the work "frauds".

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Remember, Big Brother is watching...

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


The raid in Minnesota was for Jessica Sundin.

In one article on the “fight back” website Sundin describes a trip to Columbia to meet with the now deceased infamous FARC commander Raul Reyes as a representative of the “US solidarity activists”

Sundin described the FARC leader who was convicted of the murders of over a dozen Columbian police officers as such “I enjoyed his warmth and humor. He had a friendly, round face, a quick smile, and surprisingly gentle hands.”

www.thegatewaypundit.com...

Raul Reyes:

After becoming a member of FARC and joining its Secretariat, Reyes became a prominent figure and spokesperson for the FARC.[3]

Reyes was accused by the US Department of State and the Colombian government of expanding FARC's coc aine trafficking activities and setting related policies, including the production, manufacture, and distribution of hundreds of tons of coc aine to the United States and other countries. He was accused of promoting the "taxation" of the illegal drug trade in Colombia to raise funds for the FARC, as well as participating in the murder of hundreds of people who violated or interfered with the FARC's coc aine-related policies.[4]

Reyes was also accused of kidnapping hundreds of civilians for extortion or political purposes, including nine foreign tourists, involvement in several town massacres and some Colombian city bombings. He had been formally sentenced in absence for the deaths of 13 policemen and 18 soldiers, 18 kidnappings and the deaths of a judge, a physician, three judicial auxiliaries, the ex-minister of Culture Consuelo Araújo, the congressman Diego Turbay and his mother, catholic monsignor Isaías Duarte, Governor of Antioquia Guillermo Gaviria, the Colombian ex-minister Gilberto Echeverri, 11 members of the Valle del Cauca Assembly and at least four other persons. Most of these persons were kidnapped before their deaths. Gaviria, Echeverri and Araújo were killed by shots in the head when Colombian military forces stormed the camps where they were held by guerrilla insurgents. He was also found responsible for bombing Club El Nogal in Bogotá where 36 people were killed.

The Government of Paraguay had asked for his extradition for his participation in the kidnapping and death of Cecilia Cubas, daughter of the ex-president of Paraguay, who was kidnapped on September 21, 2004 and whose body was found in an abandoned house in February 2005. Before his death the United States Department of State was offering a reward of up to US$5 million for information leading to his arrest. He was also included in Interpol's "red list".

en.wikipedia.org...

Not exactly the best guy to hold council with.

Raul Reyes- Possessor of "surprisingly gentle hands"-RIP

Originally posted by ArrowsNV
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Remember, Big Brother is watching...

When the threat of WAR means your certain and utter destruction, WAR is avoided and PEACE remains. MAD anyone?

I think you meant to say SLAVERY is FREEDOM, that would be the BAD is GOOD framework you were supposed to convey. Funny though, people mock FREEDOM today and say it is really SLAVERY. Or maybe you really think FREEDOM is BAD and SLAVERY is GOOD, then you got your hogwash in order? But that would mean you wish to be a slave.

IGNORANCE is STRENGTH, whew at least you got the order right for the last one. BAD is GOOD, check.
Ignorance is always bad, strength always good....totally incompatible hogwash. But wait, IGNORANCE is BLISS so it can be good after all.

This is insane. There was no crime committed. So its against the law now to own books?
What a fricken joke. The US seriously needs to wake the hell up or else we are all doomed.

There was no breach of the peace, so how were these searches justified?

Originally posted by CPYKOmega
This is insane. There was no crime committed. So its against the law now to own books?
What a fricken joke. The US seriously needs to wake the hell up or else we are all doomed.

There was no breach of the peace, so how were these searches justified?

Maybe you missed the part about spray painting government property. It's about some silly graffiti not taking away books. The books are part of the profile of the perpetrators. Apparently spay painting anarchists own books about anarchists, and it can be used to prove they know all about anarchists and the graffiti they make.

Kind of like home made bombers who make their own usually can be tied to literature or internet searches of the same. Evidence to take to court.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

If law was simple, no one would have to hire lawyers, please consider your own answer

No one has to hire lawyers. There is certainly no law requiring it. What you are clearly doing is equating legislation - written by lawyers - with law. Legislation is not law, at best it is evidence of law, at worst it is flat out unlawful.

If it was simple, everyman could comprehend it, and lawyers would all starve, this would not hurt my feelings.

Every man - of average intelligence or better - can understand it. Do you need a lawyer to explain to you why it is you have the unalienable right to life? Do you need an attorney to explain to you why it is you have the unalienable right to defend your life? Does the infant turn to attorney to make sure their right to speech is lawful before they begin crying? Do you truly need a lawyer to explain this to you?

The posts I have watched you make have been condescending and partisan

This is a flat out lie. The condescension part you can get away with because you speak to your feelings, but it is a lie I make partisan posts and in this thread, between you and I, the only partisan hack is you. You're the one who accused me of being a Republican. I am not a Republican, do not belong to any political party and when several members in this site asked me to join their pro-Ron Paul threads I respectfully declined.

Really, seriously? I have represented my self in court 11 times, and won all 11 cases, speeding tickets by the way, no great crimes. I am fully aware that you do not need to hire lawyers, however, the laws that are written, sometimes require a lawyer to sort them out. Try buying property without a title agent, in this day and age, won't happen most likely.

You can decline all of the Ron Paul threads you want, doesn't make you non partisan, at least I am honest, I am a social liberal and proud of it. I am mostly libertarian until people like Ron Paul add a bad taste to that, his son is a disgrace. To give you more ammo, I am agnostic, hate organized religion, believe that gays should be allowed to enjoy the federal and state benefits of marriage, and believe that hemp and prostitution should be legalized and taxed. On the flip side, I think welfare, food stamps, medicaid, medicare, and social security need to be reformed to eliminate fraud.

I own nothing except a car, have no debts, no bank accounts, look after my elderly parents, and only work part time, and even with that, paid income taxes last year. You sir, are the type of person, that makes me question everyday why I visit this site. You are blinded by partisan politics, think you are better then everyone else, and label yourself a patriot, Paul Revere is rolling in his grave at this point.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

Your rule of law arguments seem to only reflect your rule of law. With no credential put forth, I for one am not buying you "rule of law" which seems to be your answer for everything. You list your self as a writer, so I have no idea, however, we are all allowed to list ourselves as anything we want. Your condescending attitude to everyone is what makes me believe you sir are a fraud.

It is hypocritical to call someone you believe to be a fraud "sir". The Rule of Law is a set of principles available for anyone online to learn them for themselves. Or don't and keep entrenching yourself in your ignorance so you can feel just in calling those who have done the work "frauds".

I will enjoy my ignorance, so I don't become a condescending asshat, you SIR are a fraud, you parade a set of ideas based upon your own beliefs, and those that don't agree with you are ignorant. That is about the third or fourth time you have called me ignorant, and I have yet to report a one of them. You accuse me of personal attacks, but you make them constantly. You SIR are an asshat.

Velcome to Amerika papers please...

reply to post by BubbaJoe


I didn't ask for your biography. All I ask is that you learn the law. Not the 600,000 plus acts of legislation put out by Congress and the countless acts of legislation put out by the state you live in. Just the law. Once you know the law, you will never need a lawyer to explain legislation again. Indeed, if the legislation in question comes with criminal charges and it so complex you cannot understand it yourself, then if you know the law you know there is the void for vagueness doctrine a law that needs little to no explanation and a law that is precisely what it title suggests it is.

this thread makes me wish denton were closer to olympia, seattle and or the PDX and further away from texxas sometimes. but i guess it wouldnt make denton as unique as it is being a very small progressive town in a generally large sea of regressiveness (texas).