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FBI raids homes in search of "anti-government literature"

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posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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Unfortunately, this is an operation that seems apt to be considered a certain way... quack like a duck, look like a duck, waddle like a duck... it's a duck.

Regardless of the "corporate" property that was "destroyed," this crime does not justify fascist enforcement tactics. This is not about 'criminals' - this is about communications between people.... and what they are now going to "allow" as if they had the authority to offer freedom of speech as a "privilege."

Our Federal police - the FBI - are no longer even remotely concerned with not appearing dedicated to serve and protect corporate interests... those have become synonymous with the "welfare of the state" and thus all of the tools given them to deal with the terror bogeyman will be carried over to the act of bringing force to bear on any who dare participate in movements or campaigns which challenge the "continuity of government" as defined by the Democrat/Republican duopoly of power in this country. A definition which includes... "thou shall not mess with my corporate sponsors."

There is a reason the government conducts most essential business in secrecy... behind closed doors - with overly classified records the people can't access. They are breaking the law, coddling their buddies, and protecting their exploitation.

Demands for "transparency" will soon become synonymous with treason. The precedents are being orchestrated; the 'licenses to kill' (metaphorically speaking) already in place. Some may find this excusable... justified ...or otherwise acceptable... I do not.

By the way, has anyone determined exactly how one defines "anti-government" literature? The damn Constitution is "anti-government" literature when analyzed in light of current politically-authored policy...




posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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Associated with Occupy?

Sorry no outrage from me on this one.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
Has it really come to this? How could they possibly get a warrant for this kind of thing? I'm speechless.


Anarchists hiding behind masks, breaking innocent businesses windows, blocking streets, throwing projectiles at the Police, starting fires, refusing to obey lawful orders, trying to blow up a bridge; what do you expect? A ticker-tape parade?

When protestors engage in criminal activities they cease to be protestors and become common thugs. Nobody is fooled by the Anarchists lies. The Anarchists are the conspiracy. They are a bunch of phonies who get their rocks off causing trouble and engaging in vandalism and crime. They only fool the foolish and those as bad as they are and perhaps adolescents.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


It's awfully nice to see the other side represented today. I was starting to feel like Custer at the last stand there for awhile. I was determined to go down fighting! ....and almost figured people were gonna take me up on it.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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I'm pretty sure they are looking for the kids who were destroying property during the May Day demonstrations in Seattle/Portland. Quite a bit of damage was done to building in downtown Seattle. My girlfriend works across the street from Nike Town and watched them firebomb the store and well as break the windows. Some other "Occupy" kids graffiti'd and broke or damaged property elsewhere in the downtown area during the same time.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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edit on 2-8-2012 by rockoperawriter because: oops



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Flags?

They're seizing flags as evidence?


I'm sorry, I know there are a million things disturbing about Obama's brown shirts kicking in the doors of political opponents, but this one struck me as particularly messed up.

It's coming, it's coming soon.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





Anti-Gov stuff in some hands could also be things like the Anarchist Cookbook, just to use one everyone's heard of..and far more serious ones that aren't nearly as well known. To militants, they are instruction manuals for IED's and far more....definitely items the FBI would want to grab from Black Bloc people.


I have the anarchist cookbook as well as some other "literature" and yeah they are dangerous for the morons who will try to use their "directions".

Youtube is a greater danger people blow stuff up all the time.
edit on 2-8-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


It's awfully nice to see the other side represented today. I was starting to feel like Custer at the last stand there for awhile. I was determined to go down fighting! ....and almost figured people were gonna take me up on it.


I think there are plenty of sensible people here. It is a shame that the 1960's have returned, but it's to be expected I suppose. I do hate seeing the country so divided once again though.

Anarchists have likely been with us since the first tribes were formed. Perhaps they served a purpose in our evolution at one time, but now they simply interfere with our progress through sociopath behavior.

That an Anarchist wears a mask tells me that even they know what they are doing is wrong. Wrong enough they hide their identity. Sadly it seems to be to stay out of jail rather than out of shame.

I have zero respect for Anarchists and their fake protesting. I think that likely 99% of the civilized world agrees. We all know real protest does not include what they do.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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Indict them all then? Is that the proposition? So the behavior of criminals within an organization justified the elevation of the investigation to include enveloping all the disaffected and protesting citizens to their level?

That reasoning would indict entire governments and corporate entities in the vilest criminal activities.... yet they escape the 'guilt by association', don't they?

Perhaps if the protesters were to incorporate before engaging in activism they could avoid the stigma as well.

Far be it from me to 'defend' the rights of people to publicly gather and collectively express their rejection of unwelcome policies... but if you are saying that when a dozen or so out of hundreds throws rocks (be they punks, or agent provocateurs,) they should all be damned for it... it appears it is supremely easy to marginalize ANY such movement... just join them and throw a rock.

As for the "evidence" they are gathering from homes and private dwellings, well... I'm sure they expected to find jihadist manifestos and photographs of government officials with bulls-eye targets drawn on them.... failing that... it would be interesting to know 'plea bargaining' that will follows... and how they are going to get the people to admit guilt... for a lesser charge. I am prepared to contend with the inevitable associations they will impose on the public opinion by mentioning which web-sites these people visit regularly, or more automatically damning still .. [withdrawn] .... we know where that would go... don't we?


edit on 2-8-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Oh my.. Well, if the government wouldn't be doing it's job so awfully, people wouldn't have a reason to have so-called ''anti-government'' books at their homes in the first place.... If you're not guilty, you have nothing to worry about..... At least the government feels threatened...



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


So just let vandals and criminals run amok? How does that improve our situation?

Are they supposed to just ignore them as they vandalize and interfere with decent people Rights? Innocent people are hurt by their activities. They are not protestors in any sense of the word, but as I said just common thugs and vandals.

How do you deal with sociopaths who hide behind masks and harm innocent people? If there is no price to pay, they will keep getting worse and worse.

We have the right to walk into a business without being interfered with and the business has a right to expect protection for instance. We have the right to drive across a bridge without being interfered with. We have a right to use public roads, parks and area's without having to run a gauntlet of masked juveniles breaking windows and throwing dangerous projectiles. The Anarchists don't give a damn about the Rights of anyone else. I doubt they even care which cause they use for cover.

How would you deal with them and protect the Rights of the majority who do not engage in criminal behavior? Should all the people who don't engage in thuggery be left to fend for themselves just so some sociopaths can run amok. We know these are same people who will end up in prison at some point anyway.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


I don't think people are damning them all. Occupy allowed itself to be taken over, first by the Anarchists and then by the politicians and unions. I take no issue with peaceful protestors at all, just the masked Anarchists and vandals.

In my case I'm talking about the masked thugs who break windows, vandalize businesses and stomp all over innocent peoples Rights. There is no sane way to defend that behavior I can see. They need to be dealt with.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


What? Of course not. Why would the police ever let vandals and street criminals run amok? Isn't it their job to protect and serve the communities to which they belong?

The rights of the majority is what this is about. Not some parabolic segue into chaos and destruction.

What we have here are people who are accused (and may very well be guilty) of wanton destruction and violence. So, if you are standing in a street where there's a protest going on... you should run away in fear? Don't listen to their words or objectives because you may become associated with some criminal activity that you have nothing to do with?

Frankly, I am surprised. Apparently there is a growing meme that "protests" are evil... and the narrative seems perpetually fixed on some extreme examples of stupid people (or evil people) becoming fools by playing into the hands of those who are dedicated to marginalizing their message (whatever that may be.)

At the end of the day, those painting the protesters as an ill of society must not believe the idea that we are allowed to gather, speak, be heard, and disagree with what our government does, or how it does it. Apparently that act is only a right if the majority already accepts it... in which case why protest?

Yes, there are similarities between these events and those of the sixties... but there are also differences.... the first being that in the sixties - information was not a subject of criminal persecution.... it is now.

What is "anti-government literature?"



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 





So just let vandals and criminals run amok? How does that improve our situation?


That's an outrageously disingenuous strawman as a reply to a thoughtful post. Maxmars did not even come close to suggesting that vandals and criminals be allowed to run amok. What Maxmars spoke to was the method in which the federal government arrested alleged vandals and criminals. You yourself all ready spoke to hiding behind masks but alarmingly are all too ready to believe that the federal government has most assuredly determined who were behind those masks and to hell with a trial, you're knee jerk gut feeling has told you that they're guilty so who needs due process of law, right?

It matters not to you, that you and several others keep insisting this all about vandalism and destruction of property but that the response to this vandalism and destruction of property was to send in the FBI - which stands for Federal Bureau of Investigation - and a "joint terrorism task force"! A terrorism task force to arrest vandals? Seriously? You want to castigate a member for speaking to the absurdity of this, and it seems to me that you know full well Maxmars was being reasonable otherwise why invent the strawman you did?

A terrorism task force? This is what you advocate for the arrest of vandals? Send the terrorist task force? Do you use sledgehammers to swat fly's? Do you use nuclear weapons to dig holes with? What is wrong with you?



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by AGWskeptic
Flags?

They're seizing flags as evidence?


I'm sorry, I know there are a million things disturbing about Obama's brown shirts kicking in the doors of political opponents, but this one struck me as particularly messed up.

It's coming, it's coming soon.


It sounds like an odd item to seize but, if you watch some of the videos from the May Day events you will notice many of the vandals in question actually using the flag poles to break windows. Probably plenty of glass embedded in the wood and opens the option to match flags to video footage.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Just an opinion of course, but I fault the movements themselves because the moment someone puts on a mask and starts being violent I would have briefed all the protesters at that moment to all sit down... leaving the hooligans exposed.... of course LEO will probably not be inclined to distinguish, but it might help keep this kind of nonsense down to a minimum.
edit on 2-8-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I believe the FBI is involved for many reasons however the prominent motive to bring them in must be due to who these criminals targeted. They chose to assault banks. One such bank was Wells Fargo during business hours. They smashed the windows and heaved hammers in through the broken windows. All while customers and workers were inside. Crimes against banks are considered Federal offenses as far as I remember. Then you have to ask if they were indeed "terrorizing" the victims inside of the bank in the process...

The FBI is going to throw everything they have in this case and rest assured someone they nabbed early on has been singing like a bird. Just like the lead suspect in the Cleveland bridge bombing attempt has been singing.

ETA

They also struck the Federal Court House
edit on 2-8-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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All I wanna know is

If I convince them to search my house by making something up, will they then hire somone to come in and clean it afterwards? If not, then I'll abandon that plan and look for others to get my house cleaned.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


To me on the topic of protests it's about how they conduct themselves.

We have seen it done right by the Tea Party. Whether a person agrees with them or not they did do it the correct and lawful way.

As a result they had no legal issues, caused no real problems for others and even cleaned up after themselves. They now have a strong voice for their views and representation in government.

We saw nothing like that with the Occupiers, in fact we saw the opposite. At first much of the country was with them, but they failed to police their own ranks and in fact seemed to embrace the black masked thugs. Their demise was of their own doing. Society and the Authorities in Law Enforcement bent over backwards to accommodate them and allowed them to do things a Tea Party member would have been arrested for in a heartbeat. They got special treatment in Oakland and look how they repaid them for that.

At some point when the Anarchist pose a genuine threat, something has to be done. No doubt they will overreact, but look what they overreact too. At what point is enough, enough?

For all we know the literature was taken as evidence and they have good cause for each place they raided. That the Occupy movement allowed them so much involvement is on their heads.

If one group can do it right without problems, so can another. The difference is the mindset from the outset. It seems to me one group wants to fix what's wrong, the other wants to take over and dictate.



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