Introduction to the Series by FITO: ‘’Taking down the Satanic Strongholds’’…

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Not to play "Devil's advocate" (pun totally intended) here, but, what is your position then on faiths not stemming from Abraham, and their beliefs on demons and exorcism and protective spells?

How do you feel about Hindu demons, exorcisms, guiding and guardian spirits?
What about Buddhist beliefs concerning demons and protective measures?
Or, more specifically for my own case, pagans and polytheists?

Considering that Judaism rose out of middle-eastern paganism (specifically beliefs found in Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia), what is your opinion on Sumerian rites and rituals against demons, or Babylonian, Egyptian, and Persian (Zoroastrian) ones?

I'm sorry if that seems like a lot of questions. I suppose, to narrow it down, the original is best: what is your position on faiths not stemming from Abraham, and their beliefs on demons and exorcism and protective spells?

I don't ask as a means of stirring the pot or anything. Only as a fellow human being who is also fascinated with the dichotomy of good and evil in our world, and the dual nature of beings inhabiting it.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Good questions, and yes, I will be addressing several of the points you raised in your comment. I won't go into detail here if that's okay, because I'll end up duplicating a lot of material, but certainly be on the watch because many of the things you referenced are central to some of the points I have in mind.

Thanks, FITO.

EDIT TO ADD:

Considering that Judaism rose out of middle-eastern paganism (specifically beliefs found in Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia), what is your opinion on Sumerian rites and rituals against demons, or Babylonian, Egyptian, and Persian (Zoroastrian) ones?

That's a misnomer, theologically speaking. The God of the Jews is not an amalgamation of other religious ideas or spiritual entities - He is a distinctly different kettle of fish. I'll be confronting the misconceptions surrounding the origins of Judaism, as they are a consistently frustrating principality that has taken root in much that can be otherwise considered enlightened thought/ philosophy.

It is important to understand that the existence of demons was not in question in any part of the ancient world. A quick response regarding your explicit question would be that the rites and general practices evolved to ward off evil in all cultures had their grounds in practical magic, or in submission to the hierarchical authority structures of the spiritual orders of archons in the second Heaven, and were not developed in the light of the knowledge of the Supreme Deity, or His authority over the demonic, or His commands concerning magic/ submission to the archons.

Apologies that I have been late in delivering the first thread in the series. We had a bereavement in the family this week and there's been a knock-on effect, as you can doubtless imagine.

Will have it up within a couple of days, and will send everyone who has commented so far a personal message to invite you into the discussion.

God bless,

FITO.

Fly, baby.....outstanding display of literary horsepower......
I caught the Spirit at 19 too!.......during Vietnam.......we should mention the first trick the acuser uses on new believers is guilt, lasts two or three years, I swear.....and with spiritual warfare, the number one thing is that the believer is INVINCIBLE. how cool is that.
also with your dealing with attacks, it must be because the time is getting near, huh!

What a fantastically well thought out and well written thread. I will be very excited to read the rest of your series of threads.

Looking forward to Tuesday or Wednesday. S & F.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Thanks for the reply, FITO.

I have very strong opinions regarding the development of the Jewish Yahweh out of Mesopotamia, Anatolia, the Levant, Egypt, and Persia. So, I'm anxiously awaiting the segments you have on the origins of Yahweh. I look forward to a good exchange of information.

I'm also anxious to learn your views on Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Celts, Norse, Shinto, and the vast array of other world-faiths which do not recognize Abraham, Moses, Jesus, or any of the other Biblical prophets. Your opening posts were very well written, and I hope the literary standard remains in the coming ones as well.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Strong opinions are usually the result of either:

a) A strong mind, or
b) Strong devotion to a particular way of life...

I am interested to know which is more important in your case... In my case, I hold both to be responsible, by the grace of God.

I also have strong opinions on the nature of YHWH, the reasons regarding the apparent similarity between Him and the previous expressions of deity and religious practice in other Mesopotamian cultures (etc), though I do not presume to understand His origins. In fact, I presume He has always existed, and everything we see in this world and in the other realms is an expression of His creativity. That opinion has come as the conclusion of reasoned thought and powerful personal experience of Him.

To make one thing clear - I will not be arguing that there is no supernatural power outside the (genuine) Abrahamic faiths. I will be arguing the legitimacy and origin of the power, its availability to the practitioners of each faith (etc) and I will be suggesting that the Fruit of a life, a miracle, or a faith group is more important than the simple expressions of spiritual power that are evident within it. Having said that, I know for a fact that there is much more (in the way of volume & magnitude of) spiritual power in the lives of practitioners of the faith which is based in the fulfillment of the Judaic promises, that of the Way, or Christianity, as it is supposed to be lived, than in the other faiths combined. And I can tentatively offer to prove it - and to prove that these miracles of Christ (historical and current) are evidence of the Truth of the Way, and its theology.

I am sure we will have some interesting debate, regardless of your ultimate conclusions.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


I combine a strong mind, with a devotion to a way of life as well. The way of life which I adhere to is historical accuracy and truth, over spiritual feelings. I see Yahweh as the evolution of spiritual powers born in the cradle of civilization. Not necessarily better, or more powerful, but as another limb on the magnificent Tree of Life.

My area of expertise began with Kabbalah, the Jewish wisdom-school, and evolved into Qabala, the theosophical wisdom-school aligning Jewish and Christian beliefs with world religions.

From there, I just back-tracked and discovered the overlapping qualities in title, function, myth, legend, appearance, name, and traits which resound throughout the middle east. Beyond just the Canaanite EL, and the Levantine IL, I looked at the evolution of mythology from the Sumerian Ziusudra flood story, to Enki and Ninhursag's creation of man from clay and breath, and Babylon's creation epic, along with others.

I have a fairly well-grounded understanding of the mystical Christ, and the divine name YHVH, but I am not a Christian, so my knowledge is probably lacking, ultimately, when compared to your own. Where I am well versed is in the history, myth, ritual, practice, and beliefs of the Sumerians, Semites, and people of Kem. I know a little about Zoroaster and Zoroastrianism, but have admittedly not chosen to pursue it further.

All in all, whichever angle things unfold from, it will be nice to talk with someone versed in the mystical and spiritual lore of Christianity and Judaism. I so infrequently find people like yourself in the operative world, and its hard for me to talk about the overlaps, and similarities with people who have no knowledge of Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, the Canaanite, Anatolia, and the Hittite/Hurrian peoples.

I am a patient man though, so by all means, continue the thread in the direction you intended, and when we come to the subject matter, I will happily discuss it with you further. You seem to have a lot in mind on the subject matter here, and I don't want you to derail the forward momentum you were building up.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


You are a brave man

That, or just that strong in your faith. Either way, I am all too aware of what you are about to open yourself up to (and have already said a quick prayer for you, but will try to do so more often over the course of this thread). I am looking forward to the material you intend to present, and I am especially excited because you come from an atheist background, so the argument that you were some how "brainwashed" as a child cannot be used. Though I expect your honesty in revealing some of the mental health issues you faced as a young man will unfortunately be used to shoot down your position without further thought.

I have some experience in the topic myself (experience I honestly wish I did not have), and have a very real understanding of the risks a person is taking by creating such a thread. Backlash from both people, and powers and principalities are sure to follow, but you seem well equipped to deal with it. God bless

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Thank you - what an excellent summary of your beliefs. I appreciate that we are going to disagree on several points, but I'm glad that you are looking to engage in a spirit of mutual profitability and learning. I'm confident that your expertise in the myth, lore and practice of many of the ancient religions will far exceed my own. To clarify, I'm not a 'qualified theologian', and I build my beliefs upon a framework of practical experience of the mystical & 'power' traditions of Christianity, along with an appreciation of the Christian theology of CS Lewis (of Narnia fame), and several others like him - plus the 'living epistles' of great men and women of the faith, such as Smith Wigglesworth, who led a massive revival in Northern England in the early 20th Century.

I have a lot to learn, in regard to a lot of things, but my intellectual understanding ultimately comes a close second to my practical (or 'mystical, if you like) experience of God through Jesus Christ.

To expand, I have received what is known as the baptism of the Holy Spirit - the event whereby a definite manifestation of the Spirit of God comes to dwell within us. The first fruits of His activity in my life (and there are stages of increase associated with His presence) have included deliverance from demonic spirits, the receipt of certain of what are known as 'spiritual gifts' in contemporary Christianity (though they were originally referred to as simply 'spirituals' by the apostle Paul - they are the mysterious impartations of various supernatural abilities, given by God to strengthen the faith of the individual believer and of the corporate body of believers, the church), and massive changes to my character and inclinations which would otherwise have proven impossible for me to achieve.

Part of my natural set of gifts (for we all have natural talents) is the ability to write with clarity, and that is one reason I have felt compelled to try my hand at 'apologetics' in this way. In addition to obedience to the command to use our talents (the command was given by Christ), I have received guidance dreams and visions in the Spirit which have convinced me that I should be active in this realm of Christian activity.

I won't get everything right - but I'll make an effort to learn as I go.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Thank you for those words of encouragement, I appreciate the prayers and written support! Last night I was subjected to a severe demonic affront as I was drifting off to sleep. I woke in a massive panic, and had to wake my wife up to pray for me. The rest of the night passed without significant incident, apart from some low-level mithering in my dreams.

Today, God showed me that he allowed such a magnitude of attack in order to remind me that I cannot overcome these things in my own strength.

I concur that some will write off all my musings as the product of mental health issues - sad to say, but some will take any excuse as a reason to shoot the messenger, when they disagree with the message. Honesty is the best policy, as the saying goes, and if people are to be awakened to the existence of spiritual bondage in the realms of mental health issues, it is vital for those who have been delivered from such bondage to explain in detail precisely what went on.

To be clear, I am not in bondage, or oppressed, by demons in general. I am subject to their attacks, because I speak out against their activities, and they really, really don't like it. I simply have to walk in the faith to overcome, and my prayer is that I will be useful to God in compiling this thread series, and that once it is done, I can get into a more positive ministry involving the edification of church members, and bringing others to the faith. A prophet friend of mine relayed a message that I will have an anointing for spiritual warfare, and I'm already seeing the realities of that, but I have prayed that the cup be taken away on occasion. Very clearly, in a dream, God spoke to me about the way some people need to be subject to the existence of the demonic through various persecutions, before they can become truly free in the Spirit. Without such a clear understanding of the existence and 'modus operandi' of the demonic, many who are to become Christians would fall down under their unacknowledged influence, unaware of their schemes.

I'm partway through the OP of the first thread, and will hopefully have it ready by Wednesday.

I read your introduction yesterday, great post! It's a good thing that the thread won't be as popular as many of the worthless topics -- and I hope you will be able to rejoice if some folks come up with discouraging or insulting posts. Remember, we should not be admired and loved by children of this world.

I like some of the contributions like the one by "Stupid girl"

Hey FITO... I remember reading this intro thread a while back, and I was deeply interested in hearing what you had to say. That was several months ago, though, and as far as I can tell by your profile no follow-up thread has been posted... any particular reason for this, or is the series available elsewhere? Thanks