The God of The Bible is evil and so is Jesus according to The Bible...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Praetorius

 

I doesn't matter if every human being on earth believed, otherwise, that does not make it so. You know the tree from its fruit and the god of the bible did not produce good fruit...

...says the person quoting the bible

I beg to differ. Humanity itself does not bear good fruit - in large part - and if alleged followers obeyed his commands faithfully, he would bear VERY good fruit of love, faithfulness, humility, kindness, peace, and every other thing he taught his people.

Sure, some steps that were hard to understand did have to be taken at certain points, but given what is at stake according to the bible itself, I would call such things a mercy...and a justice, in light of the practices of some of the involved parties (check out Molech and his worship sometimes, along with the other deities of various biblical peoples).

And I'll leave you to it. You don't seem to be here for discussion and consideration, you seem to be here to proselytize your opinions on the matter - all of which can be addressed with honest evaluation and context/consideration of perspective. You all-too-readily discount the good that the bible teaches, the accounts of grace, loving kindness, and a whole range of other things that challenge your presentation here.

May that work out well for you, go in peace.

reply to post by Praetorius


Did I ever say that "everything" in the bible was bad? No, so I wasn't discounting it...

I even used one of the metaphors in the bible about the fruit, and I especially like the one that says

"The Truth will set you free..."

reply to post by arpgme
Fair enough, nyan cat. You DID however say that Jesus and God are both evil according to the bible (despite the bible quite clearly claiming otherwise), and explicitly said the god of the bible didn't bear any good fruit.

So I stand by my assertation being correct!

Take care.

reply to post by Praetorius


You have a most excellent understanding, and the patience of a Saint. I found myself wanting to join the conversation, but I could find nothing to add...

reply to post by Praetorius


Yes, they are evil according to the bible if you actually like at their ACTIONS. I also believe that there are SOME good parables in their. How is that a contradiction, it isn't...

Just because there are SOME good things in the bible, that does not mean that I support biblical religions or the god itself... They are still evil

And by evil, I mean stepping on other people's free-will and causing harm to others...

This God claims to be "love", not lovING but "love", and yet he also calls himself "vengeful" and "jealous"... claims that love "holds no records of wrongdoings" and then have a "book of life" by which to judge people to damnation if they don't run throw the hoops like a trained dog. What ever happened to not wanting robots but wanting free-will?

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
There is no doubt that Yahweh is merely a pretender spirit.


Although I am a Buddhist, I have respect for Christians who disregard Yahweh entirely.

edit on 1-8-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)

Thats because you fail to understand that Jesus is Yahweh the Savior and anyone who disregards their Creator is a fool.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


We don't even know if that is true. Why would disregarding your creator be foolish? If your parents are abusing you are you supposed to just sit there, or will you actually get away from that? A fool would do otherwise.

But like I said, we don't even know if he is the creator, and even if he were that doesn't mean that he is good, as we can see from the violent examples of the bible.

reply to post by Praetorius


Just because YOU believe something, even if a billion others believe it too, doesn't mean it's truth. That was a weak argument as there has been many things throughout history believed to be truth, so much so that to not believe was punishable by who? Oh yes the church of course! All in God's name no less.

I always enjoy reading these threads as I am waiting for someone to make sense. I have yet to see a valid argument as to how the following scenario is moral and a loving God's will:

How can a rotten person who has done unspeakable evil throughout their life be forgiven and all his sins admonished just by proclaiming Jesus Christ as their savior with their dying breath, yet a person who had led a good life, who was kind and charitable, essentially moral within God's absolute parameters, will burn in hell for all eternity simply because he did not make the same proclamation upon his deathbed?

I really don't want to join the heavenly crowd if it's full of born again rapists, murders and pedophiles. I don't care how much you repent... As a bell cannot be un-rung, there is nothing that can absolve such crimes in my mind. If that's how God works then I've said it before and I'll say it again... He's just not my kind of peeps and I don't care to hang with him.

Honestly, it amazes me how many people still believe in these antiquated fairytales. I really would like to see more common sense applied and admission that no one yet knows for sure what is going on and why/how we were created along with the rest of The Universe. It seems to me if we stopped with the delusions and start approaching life in general with quizzical and open minds, working together, we may just move closer to finding the TRUTH.

I for one believe that The Church has denied us the knowledge of our origins which is our birth right in order to manipulate and control the masses with The Bible being the central tool of deception. I respect people believe in it, but at the same time I feel that you all are holding us back as a sentient race in learning the true divinity that resides within us ALL.

I can just imagine centuries into the future... Where we as a whole are compared to those we condemn in our past for believing the Earth was flat. I sincerely hope that realization comes sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

We don't even know if that is true. Why would disregarding your creator be foolish? If your parents are abusing you are you supposed to just sit there, or will you actually get away from that? A fool would do otherwise.

But like I said, we don't even know if he is the creator, and even if he were that doesn't mean that he is good, as we can see from the violent examples of the bible.

We do know, he made a point to show it to the hebrew people and egyptians when he mocked their gods with the 10 plagues. Each one of those plagues was specifically targetting one of their fake gods. He showed them he is the only God, the Sovereign God and they believed enough that they put it on stele and one egyptian scribe wrote a poem in the Iupwer Papyrus lamenting that if he had known God he would have followed him instead.

Ipuwer Papyrus

What you do not get is that who we call Jesus of Nazareth was his physical human incarnation into this world and he gave up his own life to save what he created, or as many of them as who would believe in him. There's no greater gift than to give up your life to save others. Would you take being beaten unrecognizable from a roman scourging until your flesh was so ripped your ribs exposed? Would you take being spat on, and ridiculed, mocked and rejected by the very things you made with your own hands? I tell you Jesus is a far better God than I could be because i would have laid waste to this world and started over from scratch. We didn't sacrifice him, he sacrificed himself. It was his own authority with which he gave up his human body to be the Passover Lamb.

John 10:14-18

14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

He gives us revelation to know him, and all we have to do is believe and then ask him to show us and he will reveal it to us. You CAN know.

reply to post by SilverStarGazer

Just because YOU believe something, even if a billion others believe it too, doesn't mean it's truth. That was a weak argument as there has been many things throughout history believed to be truth, so much so that to not believe was punishable by who? Oh yes the church of course! All in God's name no less.

Perhaps you should read my response and what I was responding to again, then, and realize that I wasn't claiming that made anything true - I was merely highlighting that there obviously CAN be doubt about the claim made by the previous poster, since billions of currently-living and who knows how many passed people do.

I always enjoy reading these threads as I am waiting for someone to make sense. I have yet to see a valid argument as to how the following scenario is moral and a loving God's will:

How can a rotten person who has done unspeakable evil throughout their life be forgiven and all his sins admonished just by proclaiming Jesus Christ as their savior with their dying breath, yet a person who had led a good life, who was kind and charitable, essentially moral within God's absolute parameters, will burn in hell for all eternity simply because he did not make the same proclamation upon his deathbed?

Perhaps you might be in for a surprise, then, since I break with the majority (I assume) of my brethren here.

It deals with the nature of god and sincere repentance (which is an honest sorrowing for one's actions and turning from them, as well as an acceptance of Christ's death as their own to sin, with a new life in Christ himself). Repentance is not a get-out-of-jail free card that one can merely play when it's convenient, because that has no place in sincerity.

As to your example of a moral person - I have absolutely no doubt they will find themselves awaking in paradise (or being converted, if still living when the time comes); in fact, I'm always thrilled by the idea that an avowed atheist might be shocked to do the same, depending on their circumstance. Go back to the bible and read the words of Christ himself, on who he says will see the kingdom and who not. Read about the rest of the dead being judged according to what they had done, and about sin not being imputed where there is no law. Read about the kingdom of Heaven belonging to those such as children, who existing in a state of innocence through their ignorance (akin to Adam and Eve in the garden).

Unlike with the police, ignorance of the law IS an excuse with God, and we are judged according to how we respond to his law as written on our hearts (conscience, etc.), even if we don't consciously know him.

Granted, this is my opinion only, but it seems sound in light of the scriptures and disregarding the mere teachings of men.

I really don't want to join the heavenly crowd if it's full of born again rapists, murders and pedophiles. I don't care how much you repent... As a bell cannot be un-rung, there is nothing that can absolve such crimes in my mind. If that's how God works then I've said it before and I'll say it again... He's just not my kind of peeps and I don't care to hang with him.

That's your choice. But I know I've done wrong things in my life that I regret and have turned from, and I am glad I can be forgiven them - and I would not withhold the same from anyone else. This is why the requisite forgiveness of christianity is one of the hardest lessons, because our own sins won't be forgiven if we don't forgive those who have sinned against us.

I would have to say, though, I think you severely overestimate the numbers of these sorts of people, the likelihood of them sincerely turning from these types of actions, and are likely to hold grudges of all other stripe as well, so you likely don't need to worry about meeting them there in the first place - no offense intended.

Honestly, it amazes me how many people still believe in these antiquated fairytales. I really would like to see more common sense applied and admission that no one yet knows for sure what is going on and why/how we were created along with the rest of The Universe. It seems to me if we stopped with the delusions and start approaching life in general with quizzical and open minds, working together, we may just move closer to finding the TRUTH.

I thought humanity in general was doing just that? Scientific understanding and our knowledge expands daily, increasing exponentially as we approach singularity - and makes the allegedly fantastical even yet more understandable and possible.

Con't...

reply to post by Praetorius
Con't...

I for one believe that The Church has denied us the knowledge of our origins which is our birth right in order to manipulate and control the masses with The Bible being the central tool of deception. I respect people believe in it, but at the same time I feel that you all are holding us back as a sentient race in learning the true divinity that resides within us ALL.

I'll not speak for "the church" as it has long been the oppressor of true believers, and I believe spoken against quite strongly in the scriptures themselves (as we deal with the organized church, and primarily everything stemming from the ancient Roman Catholic Church).

I can't get behind the idea of the bible itself being a tool of control, however, as there's not really any way I'm more restrained in my christian liberty than anyone else is in their day-to-day lives, aside from - in short - being commanded to not be a selfish douchebag (please pardon my terminology, but it is apt).

I'm curious, though - how exactly are believers holding anyone back from realizing the divinity within themselves (and what exactly do you mean by this anyway)? Additionally, there are plenty of references in the Gospel of Thomas, NT gospels, and other writers in the new testament who essentially refer to what could be interpreted as precisely this...

I can just imagine centuries into the future... Where we as a whole are compared to those we condemn in our past for believing the Earth was flat. I sincerely hope that realization comes sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately, I can imagine centuries in the future as well...and all I can see given our current trajectory and inclinations is that without a direct intervention of some sort, we won't be here to enjoy it.

Unless we change our ways (given what we've done to global food chains, clean water usage and pollution with homones/drugs/assorted other chemicals and toxins, oceanic pollution with microplastics killing off what we haven't overfished, and so very many other factors utterly wrecking vital global systems), I have to agree with the words in Matthew "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved."

I always had a hard time understanding how god could inflict such suffering and terrible events when I was younger. And then I started paying attention to how we act and what we do all around the world, our shortsightedness, greed, and lust...and I realized no act of god is necessary to bring it about - but one just might be necessary to keep us from utterly destroying ourselves.

Take care.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

We do know, he made a point to show it to the hebrew people and egyptians when he mocked their gods with the 10 plagues. Each one of those plagues was specifically targetting one of their fake gods. He showed them he is the only God, the Sovereign God and they believed enough that they put it on stele and one egyptian scribe wrote a poem in the Iupwer Papyrus lamenting that if he had known God he would have followed him instead.

We don't even know if that actually happened, you are using the bible, which is written in favor of this god, to prove that he is superior, and if he did give plagues that is only proving my point that he is an evil god.

Originally posted by arpgme

We don't even know if that actually happened, you are using the bible, which is written in favor of this god, to prove that he is superior, and if he did give plagues that is only proving my point that he is an evil god.

I was watching a programme on the discovery channel which went through all the plagues. Saying they did happen and explained all of them, even went on about god did not spit the sea, it was a tsunami (which just by a coincidence happened as Moses led the people away), Moses and the Hebrews crossed as the water receded, then the Egyptians got hit by the wave.

Imagine you are a slave, you are forced to work, beaten, starved. You are mocked, spat at, whipped. You are treated like vermin by the local people. All of them sit back and allow you and your people (inc. mum, dad, brothers, sisters) to be enslaved. Your god, the one who created you, only asked Pharaoh 1 thing, 'let my people go'. The only reason the plagues came is because the Pharaoh wanted to keep you and your family a slave forever. Is that evil?

Originally posted by MrTheOutspoken
Your god, the one who created you, only asked Pharaoh 1 thing, 'let my people go'. The only reason the plagues came is because the Pharaoh wanted to keep you and your family a slave forever. Is that evil?

Yes, if he hardened his heart to make him say know. That is pure evilness:

Exodus 10:20
20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

I wonder how many people know about this part of the story? Oh right, not many because most don't even read their bible...

Even if Pharaoh was saying no on his own (without the help of God making him meaner), that would still not be an excuse for an all INTELLIGENT god to inflict plagues on someone. If a loving parent can have patience with their child, then god who claims to be LOVE and have INFINITE INTELLIGENCE should be not even need patience because he should know how to give people understanding of love automatically without the fear tactics...

I agree with much of the Old Testamen being dark side stuff, control,wars and codings, however the passages given in the New don't mean what you claim they mean. Christ (whether he existed as a real person, or a metaphor, or both, real but changed by the bloodlines but with some basic message of love and goodness still intact), told them, WHO THEIR DADDY WAS, and it wasn't Goodness above.

To begin with, its not literal, not in the least. Even the old testament is all codes and has these false roads, and clues for the more aware, it all has to do with the literal or the metaphorical interpretation. But the things coded in it, a completely different path, is still hiding in a very dark book/trap for the average person, and tptb deliberately dug this pit for people. And they wear this, not the people. THough all of us need forgiveness in our hearts, and its quite possible that this is taking so long because we are here to help them gain love too.

But lets look at the two passages of Jesus given. First, the gospels is also a code in a way, its showing the way back home and a tale as old as time. The Good Spirit, the Good Works of helping others, being selfless not selfish is the right frequency. It is also akin to the Gospel of Thomas where he said, making the inner the outer and the outer the inner, which basically relates to a passage where he said, its not what we eat, but what comes out of our mouths that counts, for that comes out of the storehouse of our hearts.

So, in other words, we are here to overcome our weaknesses, when our words and actions reflect the inner beliefs and intents, and when this is STO, Peace and Unconditonal Love, Forgiveness, Not Judging, and Goes the Extra Mile for the one in need.

That contributes to the proper awakening. The awakening relates to two things.

We can find that in the old testament, Genesis 32 30, where Jacob names the city he sees God in , Penial. Of course God is word that I don't really believe the Good Family of Love and Peace use for they are humble of heart, as Christ did speak of himself as well.

And Jesus's words, that relate not to our EYES, but Thine Single Eye, and that if your Eye Be Single this Enlightens/Illuminates the entire body.

Part two will follow.:

Part two.

With that background, which by the way shows that there is far more than the literal at work in the bible, and its only touched very light on things.

But the way of the mystic which hints at us that we either progress or regress in these tests and that the weeds of the world should be plucked from our eyes and the programs, and that we can ask (God, is given alot in the Bible, but Mom/Dad, Higher Self), for help to deprogram, for our eyes and hearign to be healed.

This insightful passage, which I call the way of the mystic, is Matthew 13.

Now, let us look at the passages you gave:

I would read the whole Luke 19, 1-27, for here he is speaking in metaphor and telling a tale that could be seen as harsh, but it also relates to both Matthew 13, and the Fig Tree shriveling up too when it didn't yield its fruit.

All 3 stories are similar. They all refer to progression and regression. The soul's work in the testing ground.

Of course alot isn't said for the actual directions in the Gospels are to seek to knock on the door of your soul and seek, to keep your pineal in good working order, and Give To Others out of the Goodness of your heart, not for the wrong reasons, not to gain more, as he speaks often about giving discreetly, and also that our intent of heart is known.

The whole story relies on each other.

This passage about hiding your talents, not using the gifts you have to serve and grow and help others, is like a grims brother fairy tale look at progression, or regression.

But it's only your own soul that judges you harshly, that is something they leave out in the bible. We have a Creator, Mom/Dad/Family, the Higher Ups who upgraded us from a previous existence level of souls size to the one in tests now.

We are all infinite parts of infinity, and in progression. So we existed forever, yet at the same time have Kind and Good Family that lent a helping hand.

And yet, its our own soul that is going to give us alot of regrets for all the unopened bottles of wine, all the things we didnt do to help.

Do we grow our consciousness and see through the world, or do we shrink it and become apathetic and fall for the candy and trinkets.

Does the plight of those in need motivate us to do something?

And Christ is one who had compassion to the extent of not judging even those in prison for he says, did you visit those who were sick, in need, in prison?

You've taken the whole thing out of context. And that isn't at all what he is saying he would do, but he is awake and probably the way our HIGHER SELVES kick our butt when we mess up. After all its our souls that are here in the tests, an honor to be here, to help others, and we don't want to take the long way home.

By the way, Love covers many sins, and Goodness Above forgives us. So while this may be a kick in the pants to seek hard and get onto task doing the work we came to do, we're also called to forgive ourselves and all others and to treat ourselves the way we would wish to treat others. So if we are of good heart and naturally forgive other, do extend to yourself and not put yourself down at the end, there is a Good Family to help us turn things around. I believe in Mercy only.

This world shows us what we're made of, and what we can become or learn, because it reveals our flaws.

We're supposed to refine the silver and work on them.

Part 3 next for the second one.

Mark 7.

In no way shape or form was Christ saying to put anyone to death for dishonoring their parents. What he was doing was saying, YOU who have this law, and the pharisee's and sadducee's were very legalistic. And overburdened people with many laws. He was showing that YOU who have this harsh law, for the sake of honoring your parents, even to the extent of putting to death those who forsake this duty, you have laws passed, escape routes, where they can give their aid to your purses, and get away with allowing their parents to starve, but enrich your coffers.

It is not saying that he promotes this.

He pointing out that they interpret laws, burden people laws, and basically are unfair and corrupt. This was because they thought he shouldn't have broken their rule of Sabbath.

In short to suggest Christ was saying this, and promoting it is a total twist on his words and who he is.

He was a BUDDA.

reply to post by Akragon


Sure he did..

So did god and so did the deciples..

Kill people for having same sex relationships, kill adulterers, all sorts of killing going on in your book of peace and love..

No different from the Islam book and the jewish book and many others.

Religion is used as an excuse for killing, stop denying it, it's a fact.

Oh, I forgot Blasphemy...hehe Thats a real biggie in the bible. Technically, if we were living in biblical times, I should be put to death for writing these things.

reply to post by arpgme


To know God one has to die to the false self. The false self is the one who 'thinks' he is doing life. So you have to sacrifice yourself as a person to come to the father.
The person you 'think' you are is a delusion based on time. You 'think' you are a person in time. What are you really??
The person is concerned with survival, the person lives in fear for it's life. Only when you give 'your' life up will you enter the kingdom.

The original sin was believing that you are separate from life. Life is happening now but man makes images about himself in past and future or somewhere else senarios, these imaginings decieve. If one can realize that one is always here and now viewing images presently, one will not be fragmented, one will be unified.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by arpgme

 

To know God one has to die to the false self. The false self is the one who 'thinks' he is doing life. So you have to sacrifice yourself as a person to come to the father.
The person you 'think' you are is a delusion based on time. You 'think' you are a person in time. What are you really??
The person is concerned with survival, the person lives in fear for it's life. Only when you give 'your' life up will you enter the kingdom.

A double standard.

To willingly give your life up (even if to save others or for your god), you are willingly going to your death. This is a form of suicide.

Suicide is considered wrong in the bible and anyone who willingly gives up the gift of life will go to hell.

As it is with all holy books, so it is in the bible. Full of double standards and contradictions.