The God of The Bible is evil and so is Jesus according to The Bible...

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posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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The Bible has changes in it [1], (and this only showing a few of the changes...). The God of The Bible is a God needing Human Sacrifice to forgive of original sin [2], Animal Sacrifice (goats) for forgiveness [3], loves the smell of burning FLESH [4], Claims to be love [5], but HATES (people) [6], people try to paint Jesus as a good person but he once said to kill people who do not follow him [7], Jesus criticized The Jews for not killing their children as instructed in The Old Testament [8], There are 1,540 cases of injustices by this god of the bible and jesus [9]

How much more evidence do you need that you are worshiping something evil? Sure, when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, he later stopped it but what about The Story of Jephthah where he didn't? Why don't people every mention that story?

We also know that The Gnostic Writings came AFTER The Bible so there is no excuse for Jesus, if he existed, more than likely said those things in the bible, since that is the earliest recorded information about him (rather than trusting Gnostic Texts, which came after).

Now watch as people try to defend this God with his actions, this is like people who follow cults that believe that thier leader can "do no wrong", what is the difference between that and this?

How can you trust a being claiming to be an eternal powerful creator that admits to using deceptions/delusions [10]?

It just doesn't make sense...




posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 



people try to paint Jesus as a good person but he once said to kill people who do not follow him



You are incorrect sir...

The passage you are referencing is a parable... Read the entire chapter....

He did not tell people to kill anyone.... ever




posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


OP you must be an ignorant atheist, your examples for the most part are OLD Testament laws, which upon the arrival of Christ was done away with. I am not going to bother to quote scripture because your post is ignorant and it is not worth my time. Do your research prior to making such a stupid statement. Or perhaps you are just looking for some ill gained attention.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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**LITERARY DEVICE**

Look it up, my friend. Then we'll talk.

Regards,

FTE



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


You re a troll right.
Or perhaps edomite/pharisee lineage.

There are a number of souls,
who will never/ever/never/in eternity not/ever give up their own filthy desires.

That is their good right. everyone is free.

So
what would yóu do with those souls, who refuse to give up their wicked inside ?
hm ?

Right.
Now start reading everything anew.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 
Can't believe I'm doing this...


The Bible has changes in it [1], (and this only showing a few of the changes...).

Sure - from your link:

Matthew 7:22 – It has additional word πολλα (numerous): "and cast out numerous demons in your name?". It is not supported by any other manuscript.[40]
Matthew 8:12 – It has ἐξελεύσονται (will go out) instead of ἐκβληθήσονται (will be thrown). This variant is supported only by one Greek manuscript Uncial 0250, and by Codex Bobiensis, syrc, s, p, pal, arm, Diatessaron.[41]
Matthew 13:54 – Ordinary reading εις την πατριδα αυτου (to his own country) changed into εις την αντιπατριδα αυτου (to his own Antipatris), and in Acts 8:5 εις την πολιν της Σαμαρειας replaced into εις την πολιν της Καισαριας. These two variants do not exist in any other manuscript, and it seems they were made by a scribe. According to T. C. Skeat they suggest Caesarea as a place in which the manuscript was made.[42]
Matthew 16:12 – It has textual variant της ζυμης των αρτων των Φαρισαιων και Σαδδουκαιων (leaven of bread of the Pharisees and Sadducees) supported only by Codex Corbeiensis I and Curetonian Gospels.
Luke 1:26 – "Nazareth" is called "a city of Judea".
Luke 2:37 – εβδομηκοντα (seventy), all manuscripts have ογδοηκοντα (eighty);[43]
John 1:28 – The second corrector made unique textual variant Βηθαραβα. This textual variant has only codex 892, syrh and several other manuscripts.[44]
John 1:34 – It reads ὁ ἐκλεκτός (chosen one) together with the manuscripts mathfrak{P}5, mathfrak{P}106, b, e, ff2, syrc, and syrs instead of ordinary word υἱος (son).
John 2:3 – Where ordinarily reading "And when they wanted wine", or "And when wine failed", Codex Sinaiticus has "And they had no wine, because the wine of the marriage feast was finished" (supported by a and j);
John 6:10 – It reads τρισχιλιοι (three thousands) for πεντακισχιλιοι (five thousands); the second corrector changed into πεντακισχιλιοι.[45]
Acts 11:20 – It reads εὐαγγελιστας (Evangelists) instead of ἑλληνιστάς (Hellenists);[46]
In Acts 14:9, the word "not" inserted before "heard"; in Hebr. 2:4 "harvests" instead of "distributions"; in 1 Peter 5:13 word "Babylon" replaced into "Church".[46]
2 Timothy 4:10 – it reads Γαλλιαν for Γαλατιαν, the reading of the codex is supported by along with Ephraemi Rescriptus, 81, 104, 326, 436.[47]

Such very drastic changes, with such significant alteration to doctrine...what you tend to see here and in pretty much all variants in biblical texts is small errors in transmission by scribes, etc., or later interpolations that can be discounted via comparison to earlier texts.


The God of The Bible is a God needing Human Sacrifice to forgive of original sin [2]

The bible has always taught that death is the price or result of sin, and this was a way for 'god' to ultimately pay the price for all willing to accept it. It's a conflict of absolute justice and absolute grace, reconciled in one willingly offering himself up.


Animal Sacrifice (goats) for forgiveness

See prior response. Despite some modern jews claiming otherwise, vicarious atonement has always been part of their faith.


loves the smell of burning FLESH [4]

Have to admit I do, myself. You don't like grilling? What's the issue here?


Claims to be love [5], but HATES (people) [6]

Do you hate hangnails, or anything else? You're dealing with different original languages here, first off, and context is also necessary. If you actually read about Esau in the bible, it's not very apparent that god "hated" him as you're thinking here - it's basically saying Jacob received the family blessing and became the father of the Israelites (god's chosen, whatever), and not Esau/the Edomites. He was actually a pretty danged wealthy leader of his people and fairly well blessed by god. Other references you'll likely latch on to are likely equally well missing linguistic or historical context.


people try to paint Jesus as a good person but he once said to kill people who do not follow him [7]

Wow. Must have missed that whole part about it being a parable about a king, and not Jesus commanding his disciples? Context, context, context...


Jesus criticized The Jews for not killing their children as instructed in The Old Testament [8]

And again? CONTEXT. READ THE SECTION. He's criticizing them for not honoring their parents and making a lie of their supposed faith.

Con't...





edit on 8/1/2012 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


People who knows the true purpose bible would agree, but blind believers will do whatever to make something bad from the bible into something good and claim "interpretation error" or you are reading it wrong.

New Testament is just sugar coated to covert more people by portraying a "loving god" compared to abusive one from old testament. Man made mind control at work, seems it still works after 2000yrs.

Carry on Picking and choosing your quotes!



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 

There are 1,540 cases of injustices by this god of the bible and jesus [9]

Define justice for me when we're dealing with moral absolutes. Just as mankind always exhibits despite thinking we're so good and wonderful, and just like the US markets itself as the epitome of freedom and justice in the world - hath not the potter power over the clay?


How much more evidence do you need that you are worshiping something evil? Sure, when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, he later stopped it but what about The Story of Jephthah where he didn't? Why don't people every mention that story?

Quite a lot more, apparently. What you're doing here is the equivalent of a lab rat accusing the scientists of being evil given your lack of perspective, context, and understanding of the matters involved. Regarding Jephthah, HE made the oath, and then decided to keep it (let this be a lesson against making stupid promises!).


We also know that The Gnostic Writings came AFTER The Bible so there is no excuse for Jesus, if he existed, more than likely said those things in the bible, since that is the earliest recorded information about him (rather than trusting Gnostic Texts, which came after).

*blink* True, I suppose...but not quite sure what you're getting at.


Now watch as people try to defend this God with his actions, this is like people who follow cults that believe that thier leader can "do no wrong", what is the difference between that and this?

The difference is that, if you subscribe to what is taught, God is the absolute moral authority. Creator and sovereign, and not to be perceived much differently than other sovereigns in our own human history - to uphold justice, sometimes terrible decisions had to be made and actions done.


How can you trust a being claiming to be an eternal powerful creator that admits to using deceptions/delusions [10]?

Again, I review of context and familiarity with the original languages would be good:

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The people being referred to willingly rejected truth and indulged in wickedness. The 'delusion' referred to is something you might actually want to look a bit more into to understand what is being driven at instead of jumping off with a limited understanding of what they author is trying to say.

Take care.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by luciddream
 


Just like most Atheists do to push their own agenda...



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by luciddream
 

New Testament is just sugar coated to covert more people by portraying a "loving god" compared to abusive one from old testament. Man made mind control at work, seems it still works after 2000yrs.

I've got to disagree. By weight of volume, the old testament actually contains more love and grace than does the new testament.

And when the general message of the bible is "Love one another, be righteous, etc. etc...", I really have a hard time seeing where the bible is being used as a form of control over me (church, sure...one reason I haven't been to services in who knows how long).

But I can still live my life in christian liberty doing as I will, without causing harm or difficulty for others. Pray tell - how am I limited? About the only way I can see is that I don't take sex casually, and there are plenty of other good reasons for subscribing to that...



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by DOLCOTT
reply to post by arpgme
 


OP you must be an ignorant atheist, your examples for the most part are OLD Testament laws, which upon the arrival of Christ was done away with.


An evil law is an evil law, doesn't matter if it stopped later, it should have new been a law...

And why am I an ignorant "atheist"? Because I don't believe in the bible I am automatically an atheist? Look at how judgmental and ignorant you are...


Originally posted by Lone12
what would yóu do with those souls, who refuse to give up their wicked inside ?
hm ?


As long as they aren't taking away the free-will of others, I don't care what they do. There are many extra rules in the bible and if you dare be free, you are "wicked".


Originally posted by Praetorius
...what you tend to see here and in pretty much all variants in biblical texts is small errors in transmission by scribes, etc., or later interpolations that can be discounted via comparison to earlier texts.


Well... if it really were divine containing eternal laws/words of God, you'd think it'd stay in the same condition and clear for all people without the need for earlier texts. What if you are a Christian and you are following an error without realizing it?


Originally posted by Praetorius
Have to admit I do, myself. You don't like grilling? What's the issue here?


Ok, you can not see it. You think that loving the smell of a burning flesh (animal or human [jesus] sacrifice) is ok...


Originally posted by Praetorius

And again? CONTEXT. READ THE SECTION. He's criticizing them for not honoring their parents and making a lie of their supposed faith.


And according to the "faith", what is the punishment of such disrespect? Or right... stoning them...


Originally posted by Praetorius
hath not the potter power over the clay?


This is one of the most disgusting things I have ever read. Even if it were true, that God can do whatever he want since we are just his "toys" that doesn't make it FAIR. If you don't know what "justice" (fairness) is, it is in the dictionary. A simple concept to understand whether there is moral absolutes or not.


Originally posted by Praetorius
Regarding Jephthah, HE made the oath, and then decided to keep it (let this be a lesson against making stupid promises!).


So, her free-will is irrelevant. How evil!



Originally posted by Praetorius

And when the general message of the bible is "Love one another, be righteous, etc. etc...", I really have a hard time seeing where the bible is being used as a form of control over me (church, sure...one reason I haven't been to services in who knows how long).



No, the general message is "Accept Jesus who love you - or burn in hell", this is the way most preach to non-believers, most refer to John 3:16... It is fear-based, not love-based.

They also tell you that Jesus suffered on the cross for you, but that leads to another question, why did Jesus (innocent) have to suffer in order for God to forgive? That is so messed up.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

Well... if it really were divine containing eternal laws/words of God, you'd think it'd stay in the same condition and clear for all people without the need for earlier texts. What if you are a Christian and you are following an error without realizing it?

The, in accordance with the rest of my faith - I would only be held accountable for walking in the light I was given. It's intent that matters, the spirit of the law as compared to the letter. It's not much I'm concerned with, however, as we have a general continuous passing-down of tradition in addition to great textual support.

Looking into the textual integrity of the bible - which pretty much far surpasses any and all other ancient works by an order of magnitudes by whatever benchmark you choose to review - may do you well.


Ok, you can not see it. You think that loving the smell of a burning flesh (animal or human [jesus] sacrifice) is ok...

Personally no, as regards animal or human sacrifice. Then again, I'm sure test subjects of all stripe, insects and other animals killed without much of a second thought by humans, and so on also find such cases disagreeable - but that doesn't mean there isn't some very valid and approvable reason for them when one has proper perspective on the matter.

Yes, as to liking the smell of burning flesh...sometimes. And you'll also want to consider possibilities as to WHY it was considered a pleasing aroma to god - since god doesn't have olfactory receptors, as far as I'm aware. I would imagine the significance of the act, the obedience entailed, and various other factors are what caused the metaphorical "pleasing aroma".


And according to the "faith", what is the punishment of such disrespect? Or right... stoning them...

A valid point - now can you tell me exactly what Jesus taught about stoning in the case of the adulterous woman, and why she survived? Or about Christ's elucidations on the intent of Mosaic law, and authoritative commandments enhancing it (Matthew 5)?

I think your thoughts on both matters would be quite enlightening...


This is one of the most disgusting things I have ever read. Even if it were true, that God can do whatever he want since we are just his "toys" that doesn't make it FAIR. If you don't know what "justice" (fairness) is, it is in the dictionary. A simple concept to understand whether there is moral absolutes or not.

Sometimes truth is disgusting, especially to one who lacks perspective and proper context.

Your definition of justice is also quite incomplete, there. You may want to look into the fullness of the term to gain a proper understanding, especially in light of your status as a lab rat trying to understand the motivations of a scientist. It's not a matter of toys, it's a matter of minor beings involved in something with a being or beings so far beyond themselves and their understanding as to effectively be entirely alien. A fair review of the fullness of the biblical accounts will attest quite clearly that we're not dealing with a matter of some cosmic child playing with his toys.


So, her free-will is irrelevant. How evil!

As it is every time someone makes a decision that, inadvertantly or not, affects someone else. What, in your view god is supposed to directly intervene in every human transaction to ensure we never do something stupid, unkind, or destructive to one another?

You may want to be wrapped up in swaddling cloth and pulled around on puppeteer's strings, but I sure don't!


No, the general message is "Accept Jesus who love you - or burn in hell", this is the way most preach to non-believers, most refer to John 3:16... It is fear-based, not love-based.

Agreed - as to the way MOST PREACH and not the message of the bible itself. Death is the natural lot of man - death and non-existence, as we're not created immortal (the common teaching on hell is not found in the bible, aside from one or two choice verses, as usual, taken greatly out of context. The gift of god, for those who accept it, is eternal life. The wages of sin, however, are death - not eternal flaming agony). God, through Christ, gives us a way to live forever.

Since you referred to John 3.16, do you know what the next verse says? "For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that through him the world might be saved," if I recall correctly. I may have gotten that slightly off.

Con't...



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 

They also tell you that Jesus suffered on the cross for you, but that leads to another question, why did Jesus (innocent) have to suffer in order for God to forgive? That is so messed up.

This goes back to the conflict between absolute justice and absolute grace. Whether it's some unknown cosmic law, divine personality flaw, or whatever other ignorant excuse we want to try to grasp at to understand, the price for sin is death. And justice, in its full definitions, demands the price be paid and not merely waived.

With the crucifixion of Christ and our baptism into his death, our price is paid and we are spotless in god's eyes, able to come into his presence and receive eternal life.

Christ obviously understood this, and appears not to have had too much of a problem with it (aside from dreading the involved suffering). I'm not sure why it boggles you quite so much...

Be well.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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There is no doubt that Yahweh is merely a pretender spirit.


Although I am a Buddhist, I have respect for Christians who disregard Yahweh entirely.
edit on 1-8-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by NotReallyASecret
 


Jesus understood I think the difference between God the Absolute (Godhead) and God in the role of creator ie: that God the first/last cause or first father of creation can speak through his own creation, without being fully identified in the role of creator merely as a capricious creator who creates simply to create. Neither did he see God as a type of stand-in agent or creature of some kind, but as the spirit of the truth and life. He probably thought of Yaweh that although he thought he was God was nevertheless doing God's will either knowingly, or unwittingly, in the process creating the framework and the foreshadowing by which Jesus as Christ entered the frame. There's a joke in this somewhere I sense..



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


Oh, so whenever this god does something evil, you result to looking at it as a metaphor. How convenient....


It doesn't matter what the biblical accounts say. If god is some cosmic child playing with toys that he created, you'd think he'd be intelligent, so "detail", "depth", it really doesn't relate to whether or not god is some cosmic child or not...

I would even argue that the old testament god is not cosmic at all...



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by NotReallyASecretThere is no doubt that Yahweh is merely a pretender spirit.
Aside from in my mind and those of a few billion other people including jews, christians, and muslims - and possibly a few others - you mean?


Although I am a Buddhist, I have respect for Christians who disregard Yahweh entirely.

Such people considering themselves christian seems quite antithetical, as far as I can tell, since their supposed namesake firmly subscribed to the god of the jews as described in their scriptures. This one leaves me scratching my head more than a little bit, frankly...

And by this statement, are you implying that you don't respect everyone else?



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Praetorius
 
Oh, so whenever this god does something evil, you result to looking at it as a metaphor. How convenient....

I don't so, no. I've referenced our limited perspective, knowledge, and awareness and used metaphors to ease one's understanding of how insufficient we are to ascribe good or evil, in our tiny understandings, to it. And if you can find a problem with such from a logical standpoint, please explain it to me instead of just appealing to your passionate offense at the matter.

Additionally - you may want to consider the definitions of good and evil themselves as well. Motive and intent have great bearing on them. I would hazard to say that actions outside the realm of what we're talking about here might be viewed as "evil" by some, while their intended goals lie on the opposite side of he spectrum


It doesn't matter what the biblical accounts say. If god is some cosmic child playing with toys that he created, you'd think he'd be intelligent, so "detail", "depth", it really doesn't relate to whether or not god is some cosmic child or not...

I would even argue that the old testament god is not cosmic at all...

I suppose we can both agree on that last bit, since according to the claims made in it, he's above and beyond, and outside of, the cosmos - having been the source of such.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Please read some books of the Apocrypha. You may gain a greater understanding of forgiveness and understanding. The full story of Adam and Eve is very moving. The missing books telling of Jesus life, open up a whole new side to Jesus.

Too many people are being fooled into mistaking religious teachings for religion. Unfortunately, too many people blindly follow their religions teachings, without ever reading the bible for themselves.

I grew up in the church for 16 years. 3 times a week. For 28 years I did not understand the bible. Now I have been awakened to what the beast is (in Revelations), understand how the beast works, the bible has a whole new meaning and the false teachings are now obvious.

The aim of the beast is to turn us against each other, no matter what race, colour, religion we are. The ways to create divides between us is endless.

In my opinion God could have just snuffed the human race out, the day we first sinned. Instead he's given us chance to redeem ourselves. All we had to do was live peacefully, instead we were manipulated into wars by "kings who are not kings".



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


I doesn't matter if every human being on earth believed, otherwise, that does not make it so. You know the tree from its fruit and the god of the bible did not produce good fruit...





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