The Black Market, Fallacy of gun control.

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posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Disclaimer,

I will not tell anyone how to access the information I am going to provide period. so don’t ask.


Let me start by saying the Colorado shooting was a horrific tragedy, committed by an intelligent man that went crazy...

We can go on and on about conspiracies based on the shooting, or we can politicize it all we want to push an agenda as the media is doing and which is the point of this thread.

In the past weeks I have seen on the news the call for gun control rising, and I decided to make this thread to point out some fallacies with that argument.

None of the people making this call for increased gun control have answered one question.

How would any of their proposals have stopped the Massacre that occurred.

James Holmes was a law abiding citizen, none of their laws would of stopped him, don’t get me wrong they may have “slowed” him down, they would not however have stopped him.

Lets go with maximum gun control, as in they lock it down take away guns, and Ill show you why that doesn’t work.

Its called the Black market, and on it if one is so inclined could purchase a vast number of illegal items.

It doesn’t take much special skill to find,

below are some screen shots, I suggest simply taking my word that these items are there rather than going looking for this stuff your self.





As you can see, this seller offers a wide variety of items shipped any where in the world, these people have feed back on the site, it shows what they purchased and a review. These things are successfully shipped to where they are purchased from..

Disturbingly they have more “exotic items.”




I know people will say that this exist because of Americas ease of access to guns, but several of these sellers are in Europe and Eastern Europe.

Guns, Ammo, Explosives, Body Armor. All readily available on the net.

So shouldn’t we be asking ourselves if Gun Control won’t stop violent crime, than Why are they pushing it?

You see, no amount of gun control will ever stop someone whose intent is to do harm, someone like James Holmes will always find a way to hurt, it only serves to stop those who obey the law in the first place.




Please listen to the disclaimer, stay away from TOR unless you know what your doing.

edit on 31-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 
Thanks kindly for the informative post.

I have to ask, though...are you surfing around on the Silk Road, there? heh.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Way cheaper than if I wanted to legally get a full auto AK in the US.

Legally I'd be spending close to $20K and have to wait 6 months or more for the paperwork to go through.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 





I have to ask, though...are you surfing around on the Silk Road, there? heh.


Nope, BMR.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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I recommend a taser. I never see those talked about on ATS. Therefore the lack of interest, has sparked my interest. Anyone know any good taser models?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 





Way cheaper than if I wanted to legally get a full auto AK in the US. Legally I'd be spending close to $20K and have to wait 6 months or more for the paperwork to go through.


Which blows the Tax the hell out of guns and ammo argument out of the water.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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There is plenty on the open web, hidden in plain site so to speak, for people that know what they are doing. I had a few autos back when I was in NY, got them on the clearweb, about 200 a piece. It's really easy if you are willing to disreguard the law, and shoulder the risk of getting in deep # if caught.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Don't forget that people can manufacture their own firearms, even if you have total 'gun control'. Anyone that is hellbent on murdering people is going to find a way to do it, remember the scare caused by guys like the boston strangler?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 





Way cheaper than if I wanted to legally get a full auto AK in the US. Legally I'd be spending close to $20K and have to wait 6 months or more for the paperwork to go through.


Which blows the Tax the hell out of guns and ammo argument out of the water.


I figure the main fallacy of those people is that they are operating under the assumption that the US is a closed unit and all firearms within the US are created within the US and some even go so far as to connect firearms in the rest of the world with the Made in the U.S.A. label.

It's the only way they could rationalize their belief.

When the reality is every water-wheel powered lathe in every backwoods tribal region is pumping out machineguns 24/7. Coupled with the reality that nearly every nation south of the border has been experiencing some form of war for the last century we can reasonably conclude that should the demand for black market arms jump in the US there is no shortage whatsoever of weapons just waiting to cross over.

If a ton of coc aine can get in everyday so can a ton of rifles.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by benrl
 
Thanks kindly for the informative post.

I have to ask, though...are you surfing around on the Silk Road, there? heh.



what is the silk road?

and op i get what your saying, i would like to add the amount of black market trade through the southern boarder would rise making the cartels and others rich.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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worst part about gun control is that even if you are prevented from buying a gun (convicted felon, mentally challenged etc), there is nothing to prevent a friend from buying one for you, and then selling it to you privately.

Best way to create gun control in a Constitutionally acceptable manner is to simply tax all gun sales to the rate of 500 - 1000 %, making the cost of guns so prohibitive that the average person would have to think twice before buying one.

Do the same thing with ammunition too.
edit on 31-7-2012 by babybunnies because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
worst part about gun control is that even if you are prevented from buying a gun (convicted felon, mentally challenged etc), there is nothing to prevent a friend from buying one for you, and then selling it to you privately.


Except the law.

It is unlawful to transfer a firearm to anyone who is prohibited by law from possessing one.

There are plenty of folks in prison right now who will attest to that.




A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
ATF
edit on 31-7-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: better quote



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


tasers can kill people as well, no matter how good the model is, and they don't always work, i wouldn't trust my life to one



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by DocHolidaze
 





tasers can kill people as well, no matter how good the model is, and they don't always work, i wouldn't trust my life to one


I bought a taser in college, you know what I did with it? Me and my friends would get drunk and tase the crap out each other (stupid kids). It got to the point we could take a good long tasing while barely flinching.

I am sure the technology has gotten better by now, but than I am also sure the risk of heart attack to voltage has increased.
edit on 31-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Depends on where you live. Civilians are not allowed to have them in some, as stupid as that sounds. Some states are downright retarded and outlaw mace as well. If you are going to get one, make sure it's LEO grade if it's legal.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by babybunnies
worst part about gun control is that even if you are prevented from buying a gun (convicted felon, mentally challenged etc), there is nothing to prevent a friend from buying one for you, and then selling it to you privately.


Except the law.

It is unlawful to transfer a firearm to anyone who is prohibited by law from possessing one.

There are plenty of folks in prison right now who will attest to that.




A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
ATF
edit on 31-7-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: better quote


Of course, but if someone wants to obtain a gun illegally in the USA, even with the simple act of having someone else buy it for them, it's pretty easy to do.

Tax guns out of most Americans' price ranges, and guaranteed, sales will slow dramatically.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by babybunnies
worst part about gun control is that even if you are prevented from buying a gun (convicted felon, mentally challenged etc), there is nothing to prevent a friend from buying one for you, and then selling it to you privately.


Except the law.

It is unlawful to transfer a firearm to anyone who is prohibited by law from possessing one.

There are plenty of folks in prison right now who will attest to that.




A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
ATF
edit on 31-7-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: better quote


Of course, but if someone wants to obtain a gun illegally in the USA, even with the simple act of having someone else buy it for them, it's pretty easy to do.

Tax guns out of most Americans' price ranges, and guaranteed, sales will slow dramatically.


What would happen to that industry, then? Won't people cry about the loss of jobs and factories shutting down, if nobody can make guns and ammo because nobody is buying it? And do any of our lawmakers have ties to arms manufacturers?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by babybunnies
 





Tax guns out of most Americans' price ranges, and guaranteed, sales will slow dramatically.


Are you not reading the post in this thread?

thisguyrighthere said.


Way cheaper than if I wanted to legally get a full auto AK in the US. Legally I'd be spending close to $20K and have to wait 6 months or more for the paperwork to go through.


Taxing does little if you don't mind going outside the law, which is what you posted in the first place...

AK's full auto cost 20k in the us if you buy legally, Illegal is 1k.

All you would be doing is making it impossible for law abiding people to own, criminals can still get cheaply, look at the pics in the original OP, theirs a shopping list of Black Market prices, both sellers OUTSIDE THE US.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Depends on where you live. Civilians are not allowed to have them in some, as stupid as that sounds. Some states are downright retarded and outlaw mace as well. If you are going to get one, make sure it's LEO grade if it's legal.


Your right, that is stupid.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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I'm going to stick with my theory that they don't want to make guns illegal, they want to increase regulations and legislation. They want to increase regulations and legislation on the topic because they will then have to enforce those regulations. Enforcing their regulations is where we lose our rights and privacy by leaps and bounds. Its what justifies patriot acts, public surveillance, TSA, etc etc...

the enforcement of the regulations is where this all goes to hell for everyone. I don't particularly think they care as much about actually getting our weapons as they care about installing more police state like measure to enforce and ensure that their regulations are being followed.

my 2c





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