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Lakewood (Colorado) Cake Shop Refuses Wedding Cake To Gay Couple.

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posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


This Jason not about race or even them being gay. The owner says he will make any cake for homosexuals but a wedding cake due to his religious beliefs.

Raist




posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


But it is the same issue.

If you refuse to discuss how similar the two are we should end our discussion now.

You cannot pick and chose equality.

Raist



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Please fix your post is has quotes I did not type. Thank you.


Sorry I am not seeing which part I need to fix?

Is it because I have a reply to you, a quote to you and then I quote another member in the same post? Sure I can add his name to those if that's what you mean.


As for my part. I am taking the mans word until it can be proven differently.


Yeah you missed or simply disregarded my point entirely.

I have no doubt those words were uttered from his lips... heh....


This would be no different than trying to force a church to marry a gay couple when it is against their belief.


Well for one the use of the word 'force' is rather misconstrued here. The shop owner was surely not 'forced'. If receiving public criticism is an interchangeable idea with that, then I must have been away from the world longer then I thought lol.

'No different then wanting a church to marry a gay couple when it's against their beliefs would be more fitting'

So before I answer that. You feel a Church and a business shop are analogous to each other? Enough to make this example work?
edit on 1-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


There are a great deal of people who do not agree with interracial dating /marriage. That is their right to believe that no matter how sad it is.


Sorry I missed this post when I made my last. Annee's quote is my response.


But by law you can not refuse to make them a wedding cake because they are black.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


There are a great deal of people who do not agree with interracial dating /marriage. That is their right to believe that no matter how sad it is.


Sorry I missed this post when I made my last. Annee's quote is my response.


But by law you can not refuse to make them a wedding cake because they are black.


I think a business can refuse service to anyone they want to, period. Then let the courts decide, if it goes that far
edit on 1-8-2012 by Juggernog because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Juggernog

I think a business can refuse service to anyone they want to, period.


They can refuse service for legitimate reasons.

Race - gender - disability - - definitely not. Federal law.

And in some areas LGBT are locally protected.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Yes the other members quotes are what I mean. I do not want to confuse my postings with others.

As for the church and business thing I am not sure that they are completely interchangeable, but I was speaking.g in the terms of them being a private institution.

I say this because the issue is about religious beliefs. As far as I know no religion has issue with race only those deemed unclean /no part of the herd however you wish to say it.


It seems he feels making a wedding cake for a gay marriage would go against his beliefs. What I mean by forcing him is that if he were to have to serve them it could be seen as forcing him to go against his beleifs.

Raist



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Well technically I guess he could. Likely he could get into trouble with the law though.

Again though I do not think there is a religion that has issue with race, at least to my knowledge.

I think the issue here is the term marriage and the definition in the religious community. That is why I suggest the government should only recognize civil union for gay or straight. If they want marriage they can do that withtheir own ceremony.

Raist



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Juggernog

I think a business can refuse service to anyone they want to, period.


They can refuse service for legitimate reasons.

Race - gender - disability - - definitely not. Federal law.

And in some areas LGBT are locally protected.


You know... youre obviously a zealot on this position, for whatever reason. In any case, the law is in his favor and since his company hasnt had any charges brought against them, then I'm guessing they havent broke any civil, state or federal laws.
Im sure these whiny ass lil girls will fill a civil suit though... yea?



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Juggernog
 



Im sure these whiny ass lil girls will fill a civil suit though... yea?


These whinny ass little girls will fight for equality and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitutional ideal and all. You can be assured of that, yes. I am speaking generally and not to this particular case. Not that you care..clearly.
edit on 2-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Juggernog
In any case, the law is in his favor and since his company hasnt had any charges brought against them, then I'm guessing they havent broke any civil, state or federal laws.


Did you miss the couple of posts I stated: Federal Equality discrimination laws will catch up to protect LGBT.

I don't know if he's broken any local discrimination law or not. I know he has not broken a Federal law.

In the case of "Just Cookies" - - 2 years ago - - where the owner refused to make Rainbow cupcakes and told the customer it was because of homosexuality.

They were in a Market Place - - and had signed a lease agreement that included a non-discrimination clause protecting LGBQ. I believe it was resolved amicably with the owners agreeing not to discriminate again.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Juggernog
 



Im sure these whiny ass lil girls will fill a civil suit though... yea?


These whinny ass little girls will fight for equality and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitutional ideal and all. You can be assured of that, yes. I am speaking generally and not to this particular case. Not that you care..clearly.
edit on 2-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


Well, lets just hope that they dont have you as a spokesperson



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by Raist
 



I say this because the issue is about religious beliefs. As far as I know no religion has issue with race


You would be most wrong.

Do you mean what Today's Church's teach or what is in the written dogma. Wrong either way though I am fairly sure..


It seems he feels making a wedding cake for a gay marriage would go against his beliefs.


Yes it does go against his beliefs.

So? Is belief in of itself protected? Does our sense of morality and subsequently our Laws cater to beliefs in this manner?..


What I mean by forcing him is that if he were to have to serve them it could be seen as forcing him to go against his beleifs.


I see what you mean. In that case yes I suppose it would be forcing. Did you see my earlier post with the drastic example of the rapist?

We already, clearly, accept culturally the idea that not all beliefs are to be accepted simply out of respect for belief in of itself.

Someone can commit hommicide and hold the belief it's okay. Someone can sexually abuse their kid and have the belief it's okay. Someone can punch a clerk when they don't discount their product and believe it's okay. Belief in of itself is not enough. We penalize beliefs we deem detremental to our Worldview all the time.

In this case, as has been in the past with other civil rights movements, the issue is this belief is detrimental to the wellbeing, the equality and the happiness, of a minority group of citizens.


That is why I suggest the government should only recognize civil union for gay or straight. If they want marriage they can do that withtheir own ceremony.


On a very personal level I would be fine with that. However the majority are not and therefore I don't support it.

People want to analyze marriage as though it were as simple as saying 'it's a religious thing' or 'it's a contract thing that gives benefits'... but what about a much more basic idea?... they it's culturally glorified and encouraged throughout communities. Even the young ones are a part of that. Young girls grow up dreaming about their wedding.. It's not as simple as the cold math that people seem to be using make it out to be. It's a part of our World. To take that away from a citizen... you better have a damn good reason.

*edit: to add thoughts
edit on 2-8-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Juggernog


Well, lets just hope that they dont have you as a spokesperson


They already do.

Whatever that was supposed to mean. I have no idea.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Juggernog


Well, lets just hope that they dont have you as a spokesperson


They already do.

Whatever that was supposed to mean. I have no idea.


I didn't get it either.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by hp1229
 


ya know... I have a feeling all these stories about anti-gay businesses popping up at the same time might indicate some new legislation in our near future...it seems like whenever some legislation is ready to be announced, there are a bunch of stories in the news indicating a need proceeding legislation. After the legislation gets passed, then we won't hear anymore stories about it. We can name dozens of stories exploited and saturated in the news that brought in intrusive or restrictive legislation already written and ready for enforcement. The tactics are so old, they are predictable. I wonder what these stories will bring us and how many will cheer. *sigh



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 





Whatever that was supposed to mean. I have no idea.


I know you have no idea... You cannot even put a sentence together, much less take up a cause... That was my point.

Decipher this crap?




These whinny ass little girls will fight for equality and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitutional ideal and all. You can be assured of that, yes. I am speaking generally and not to this particular case. Not that you care..clearly.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by Juggernog
 


Whatever.

I am more than willing to engage in discussion. Like an adult.

If all you have to say is "neener neener you can't make sentences" then I will use my brain in different replies.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Juggernog
 


Whatever.

I am more than willing to engage in discussion. Like an adult.

If all you have to say is "neener neener you can't make sentences" then I will use my brain in different replies.


Someone seems to be better at making personal attacks then a valid point.

I prefer the adult discussion myself.



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


They said that they were a "spokesperson" for their cause and I thought that their grammar and spelling was a bit off for a "spokesperson."
Wrong or right?





Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Juggernog Well, lets just hope that they dont have you as a spokesperson
They already do. Whatever that was supposed to mean. I have no idea.

edit on 2-8-2012 by Juggernog because: (no reason given)






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