Warm Water Closes Yellowstone Park Rivers To Fishing

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by EvolEric

 

Areas in Yellowstone usually get closed off if theyre's volcanic activity going on. Warmer waters could be a sign of significant geothermal activity feeding into these rivers. Alot of dead fish in the rivers is a good sign of bad medicine and earthquakes have been happening there lately. We'll know soon enough if the caldera starts rising that the S will hit the fan in a big way and in a scale that hasn't been seen by modern humans. It'll make the eruption of Krakatoa look like a mousefart by comparison.

edit on 30-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

The solution lies in the lower water levels, that have to endure the same amount of heat that higher water levels do. Less water means it heats up faster, and to higher temperatures, as less water cannot dissipate as much heat, or as quickly, as a higher water level (and thus volume) can. Therefore it is hotter.

Combine that with the rest, and of course it's going to be hotter. Doesn't mean at all there is increased magmatic activity. Seismicity is normal. Tiny swarm here and there, minor quake here and there, the usual. They've probably already checked to see if gas emissions have increased, just in case. They've also got INSAR, and GPS for ground deformation. Aside from that tiny swarm a few days ago near Hebgen, been actually very quiet lately at YS.

This, the hot summer on the low laying river beds coupled with preexisting geothermal activity as cassiper mentioned together leads to lethargic fish who feed less and deal with the stresses that are involved in sustaining themselves in a less oxygenated environment. Fishing in Yellow Stone, like most fishing these days, is for sport. Just like you can't net spawning fish, they're closing off some sections of the rivers to not over-stress the fished population. They aren't evacuating or quarantining the river, they are putting a kibosh on fishing it!

Although, they do have awesome little frying man plaques as warning in the hot springs telling you you will most likely die if you wade into them... those aren't being put up yet in the river.

Wouldn't read too much into this story. Like a few posters have mentioned, it has been a little warmer than normal this year in Wyo. Not much hotter, I've experienced hotter summers within the last decade here in Wyo, but it is still fairly warm.

The problems me thinks are that low winter snowpacks in the region really took its toll. Haven't seen what the water levels at Yellowstone lake are this year, but recent years I've noticed it vary from average shorelines, to OMG those used to be islands out there (tops of trees sticking out of the water) to OMG that used to be islands (water so low). And the variations in the lake aren't from the caldera...we're talking 10-20 feet differences.

This link gives a good idea of the snowpack levels currently in Wyoming. If you scroll down, you'll find the Yellowstone basin in there. Basically, you're gonna look at the right 3 numbers. 1st number is Current, 2nd is Avg, 3rd is % of Avg.

Burnt Mtn and Cole Creek look to be the hardest hit, with both being at 59% of average of normal precipitation levels. Not sure if these basins are associated with the rivers that are being closed to fishing or not....So....

And here's another link for river observations in Western Wyoming. And it looks like there are a couple of rivers in Yellowstone that are tracked. Should be able to see flow rates of the rivers in those areas by clicking on the the links on the map. Pretty sweet and interactive as well.

Madison River Hydologic Data
Gibbon River

Anyways, trout are a pretty sensitive species. I also think there is an endangered species of cutthroat trout in the region that is very vulnerable to high temperature variations.

I tried to get some of the Snowpack data into an external quote thingamajig....but couldn't get the columns or rows to line up properly....and the hydrological data is map format...so it is pretty interactive as is.

Not to be a debbie downer but I dont think there is any thing to worry about with the sleeping " beast" .

Dont get me wrong I love speculative thinking and a good conspiracy but I believe this has more to do with weather.

I reside in the lower michigan and we are having fish woes as well. Normally our climate is well suited for northern pike but this year has not been good to them. Our low water and high water temps due to the drought have made it tough on the fearsome fellows. Then thrive in cool deep water, which in michigan is generally not a problem.

But taking in account the all the short comings of the drought and extremly mild winter their numbers are not as healthy. I hope next year is better because the rush of landing a 40 inch+ pike is pretty wicked.
The way the bigger ones fight you could swear you just caught ole nessie herself.

I was reading this thread, and suddenly thought of capping Yellowstone. Maybe a steel and concrete cap a mile high to keep it from blowing up. Feasible?

reply to post by Lazarus Short


NO

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I was reading this thread, and suddenly thought of capping Yellowstone. Maybe a steel and concrete cap a mile high to keep it from blowing up. Feasible?

No...not really!

When Yellowstone blows it will displace approximately 600,000 miles of earth!

No way to really cap that!

reply to post by EvolEric


They said some areas are closed to *fishing*.

No-one said they closed off areas of the park.

Originally posted by jerryznv

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I was reading this thread, and suddenly thought of capping Yellowstone. Maybe a steel and concrete cap a mile high to keep it from blowing up. Feasible?

No...not really!

When Yellowstone blows it will displace approximately 600,000 miles of earth!

No way to really cap that!

You mean cubic miles? It's just a matter of putting sufficient mass and bracing on top of Yellowstone to keep the pressure in check, something presently being done by the mass of Yellowstone itself. It's no different than my pressure cooker, but then I do know what would likely happen if I held down the relief valve! Anyway, it might be better than all of North America being covered by yards of ash.

Usually there is strong sulphur smell before eruption and properties like electric conductivity will rise in waters. Though both of these are normal around volcanoes, even when its not erupting.

I find it hard to believe that Yellowstone is going to erupt anytime soon. Earthquake activity there is very low and deformation graphs show that caldera is going down, meaning less pressure coming from down. Yellowstone experienced rapid ground rise before 2009-2010 winter, after it started going down.

So if the water is too warm and the fish are stressed and probably going to die why not let people catch them and eat them instead of letting them rot.

Depending on how warm it gets they may all die off as trout are a cold water fish.

its been a extra hot summer for us this year in s.w. montana, not extreme temps but high temps for a longer period of time, trout dont do well in hot weather. If you have ever bit into some freshly cooked trout that was in warm water you know what i am talking about.. mushy nasty pudding.
i actually installed the a/c which for us is a rare thing, normally i dont put the a/c in during the summer because we only get a week or so of hot temp's, then its back in the 80's, but this year we have and esp. western montana has had several weeks to a month or two of high temps in the 90's, which i'm sure is whats effecting the fish.
not to mention that the creeks/rivers are much lower this year than normal.

with that said, i'm off , taking the kids to the river to do a little fishing for supper, fresh trout on the bbq.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by jerryznv

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I was reading this thread, and suddenly thought of capping Yellowstone. Maybe a steel and concrete cap a mile high to keep it from blowing up. Feasible?

No...not really!

When Yellowstone blows it will displace approximately 600,000 miles of earth!

No way to really cap that!

You mean cubic miles? It's just a matter of putting sufficient mass and bracing on top of Yellowstone to keep the pressure in check, something presently being done by the mass of Yellowstone itself. It's no different than my pressure cooker, but then I do know what would likely happen if I held down the relief valve! Anyway, it might be better than all of North America being covered by yards of ash.

The molten rock chamber under Yellowstone is about 40 miles wide. No feasible amount of man-made structure could be created to hold off that beast if it decides to blow. There's no peak or cap to a super-volcano. That's the distinction between a regular and super. A regular typically has a cap (release valve if you will) at the top of a mountainous structure. Super-volcanos trap the molten rock and pressure deep underground (4 miles below in the case of Yellowstone). When they become more active, the pressure builds up which causes more earth to be molten causing more pressure etc... until finally the entire surface area of the chamber explodes.

I don't think there's much man could do to stop a regular relatively smaller volcano from erupting.

Originally posted by EvolEric


So is this a common thing or what with this area? Or is this rare?

But I thought nah, forget it, yo homes to Bel-air!





(maybe volcano activity heating the water up?

reply to post by mwood

Originally posted by mwood
So if the water is too warm and the fish are stressed and probably going to die why not let people catch them and eat them instead of letting them rot.

Depending on how warm it gets they may all die off as trout are a cold water fish.

They wont all die just the weaker ones, ie older,young,dumb,sick. As my post above stated we are having fish problems in michigan as well. This is a survival of the fittest scenario. Nature and life finds away.

By restricting fishing the hope is that it will have a minimal impact on the healthy stronger fish. Which will be needed to kick off the new spawning cycle. Generally when people fish they keep the biggest and the best,which are the ones that need to survive.

And even by restricting catch limits the simple act of catching the fish can be very stressful.
So by not allowing fishing your removing an outside stress on an already stressed animal. I actually applaud thier efforts. They make bukku bucks on fishing permits at least in michigan,I would assume its the same there.

Wow....how many missed the part about high temps for long periods of time which heats up lower parts of the stream....it's called nature

Wow....how many missed the part about high temps for long periods of time which heats up lower parts of the stream....it's called nature

Wow....how many missed the part about high temps for long periods of time which heats up lower parts of the stream....it's called nature

reply to post by EvolEric

It happens now and then in Yellowstone at those rivers. The combination of a hot summer and dry conditions and the thermal heat but its not the first time. I've lived in the area over 30 years. Same with alllllll the little earthquakes that get so much attention in here. They happen alllllllll the time. Trout are really finicky compared to other fish and added stress of catch and release could be a death sentence for them even with a proper release. So again, its not common, but it does happen.