Atheist community being torn apart by war between feminists and misogynists

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posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
Again, misogyny is a universal theme, but in some places it is more militant. Am I to apologize for living in a first world country?


No, but if you're going to complain about misogyny as though you yourself experience it, then I'd like to see some examples. We all know women are treated poorly in countries like Saudi Arabia. That's a given. But I'm more interested in the misogyny that a white(?) privileged woman like yourself deals with.

This post is directed at adjensen as well.
edit on 31-7-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by Sleepwalk7
This post is directed at adjensen as well.


I'm not a woman, lol.

I just find hatred offensive.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen

I'm not a woman, lol.

I just find hatred offensive.


Who doesn't?

But my question is what do first world women, especially first world Caucasian women have to deal with?
edit on 1-8-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by Sleepwalk7

Originally posted by adjensen

I'm not a woman, lol.

I just find hatred offensive.


Who doesn't?

But my question is what do first world women, especially first world Caucasian women have to deal with?


I'm still waiting for a response from you to the question here, but I'll suggest that the links that I cite in the OP are sufficient to demonstrate hatred toward women.

"First world"? "Caucasian"? How dare you qualify hatred?



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
I'm still waiting for a response from you to the question here,


The question is loaded though which is why I haven't and will not answer it. For instance, I never said a certain degree of hatred towards women was tolerable.

Regardless, I'd like to see some examples of sexism against women in first world countries.


but I'll suggest that the links that I cite in the OP are sufficient to demonstrate hatred toward women.


Nope.


"First world"? "Caucasian"? How dare you qualify hatred?


I have no idea what you're getting at here.
edit on 1-8-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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I don't believe that atheism is being torn apart by a war between feminists and misogynists, although I guess I do find the presence of this misogynist faction interesting. Instead of using tradition (religious or otherwise), they're using "It is worse elsewhere, so stfu".

However, I wanted to address one point:


Originally posted by Sleepwalk7

Originally posted by adjensen

Maybe we're just not going to come to an agreement on this, but as I see it

1) Guy hits on girl in an uncomfortable environment for her


Which... he had no way of knowing. Some women wouldn't care. Some woman may have jumped at the chance to go up to the guy's room. Then there's Rebecca's reaction. Etc.

You don't think hitting on a stranger from out of town at 4am at night in a closed elevator space with no immediate exit is uncomfortable environment?
Her saying "Guys, don't do that" is pretty common sense.

And I can kinda see her point of contention how people seem to consider that she should take it as a compliment when someone asks her out, while she considers it as reducing her in-depth and varied opinions and thoughts to "You are a pretty woman I want to copulate with you". Perhaps not as "significant" as FGM, or raping virgins to cure AIDS, or forced marriage or institutionalised rape in the 3rd world, but that doesn't mean it is insignificant or unimportant.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by Sleepwalk7
 


The OP demonstrates an attitude of hatred towards a caucasian woman in the first world, which negates all of your points. If you don't want to address that, just accept that it exists, whether you agree with it or not. Otherwise, explain how a statement that raping a caucasian woman, who lives in the first world, simply because she is "annoying", does not represent hatred towards her (or what she believes in.)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
You don't think hitting on a stranger from out of town at 4am at night in a closed elevator space with no immediate exit is uncomfortable environment?


Depends on the person. For instance, if a girl asked me to go to her room for coffee at 4 AM, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable, even if I found her unattractive. I might feel bad for rejecting her proposition though. Or if a muscular large gay man asked me if I wanted to go to his room for coffee, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable either. I might feel a little creeped out though since I'm a proud homophobe. But besides that, I would feel flattered if either of these encounters happened to me.

So, no, the white privileged woman Rebecca Watson does not speak on behalf of all women, nor me. Perhaps it is common sense in her brain that men not proposition women in elevators at 4 in the morning, but in the minds of others it may be different. It's all subjective.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Watson is sexually immature and feels threatened by male sexuality.


while she considers it as reducing her in-depth and varied opinions and thoughts to "You are a pretty woman I want to copulate with you".


Perhaps this is true. Why does it matter? Why does it matter if a man (or a woman) finds a member of the opposite sex physically attractive? And how do you know that the man who propositioned Watson in the elevator even thought this? Perhaps he thought Watson was attractive both inside and out?

And if she does have a problem with such behavior, then maybe she shouldn't be designing and pushing calendars containing "intellectual" women (and men) with "in-depth and varied opinions" posing in a sexual manner.


but that doesn't mean it is insignificant or unimportant.


This is definitely insignificant and unimportant. And I don't even see how this is sexism against women. It's sexism against women to hit on them in elevators at 4 in the morning? Really?



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by Sleepwalk7
 


The OP demonstrates an attitude of hatred towards a caucasian woman in the first world, which negates all of your points. If you don't want to address that, just accept that it exists, whether you agree with it or not. Otherwise, explain how a statement that raping a caucasian woman, who lives in the first world, simply because she is "annoying", does not represent hatred towards her (or what she believes in.)


No, I just see hatred against Rebecca Watson who happens to be a white woman. I don't think they're targeting her just because she is a white woman. I think they're targeting her because they think she's a man-hating feminazi idiot. And what's the best way to push a feminazi idiot's buttons, especially one whining about a man who MAY have been propositioning her for sex? Answer: Joke about rape. These guys are trolling her for being a retard.

We have to back up for a second though to see what's really going on here, which is MISANDRY, not misogyny. Why would Rebecca feel uncomfortable in the first place? Did she fear she was going to get raped? If so, why? Was the guy in the elevator a convicted rapist? No? Then where did the idea of rape come from? Oh, I see, it's because the guy was a man. I'm sure if a lesbian propositioned her, then she wouldn't have made a YouTube video telling all lesbians "don't do that." It's only cool to pick on the white man, after all. Every man is a rapist until proven otherwise, right? And that's not sexist? Hey, let's not just stop there though. Black men rape more than white men, so does that mean we should feel even more uncomfortable with the idea of a black man propositioning a white privileged girl for sex in an elevator at 4 in the morning?
edit on 1-8-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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I don't know, but it seems hard for me to even wrap my head around the idea of an "athiest community." Athiesm, as pointed out elsewhere, is about not-doing-something. (in this case, not believing in God). Most communities that I am aware of are united around "something," rather than "not-something."

Is there a community of people who don't like anchovies? A community of non-football fans? A community of people who don't live in Alaska? Why would there be an "athiest community," it seems just as ridiculous to me as any of those. And why would lack of belief in God imply feminism, or non-feminism, or anything else? I don't like abstact expressionst painting, so does that make me a feminist or a non-feminist? Does anyone else realize how silly this sounds?

It's a funny phenomenon in general that as real communities break down there is a scramble to create all these ersatz communities, virtual communities, and so on. The idea of an "athiest community" seems to fall in that category IMHO.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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I don't know, but it seems hard for me to even wrap my head around the idea of an "athiest community."


Whether there is a "community" in being or not, both Thuderf00t and P.Z. Myers, the principals in the OP's video, are actively seeking to organize one. Rebecca appears to think that there is one, or one being built, to whose men she is addressng her advice and complaints.

silent thunder's post goes on to list tastes and opinions that, so far as I know, don't have communities. Until just the other day, I had no idea that there is aa American community who actively advoctes that public monuments be designed solely in Roman-classical style. They are currently mobilized in connection with the proposed Eisenhower memorial in Washington, D.C. At other times, they apparently console each other over their outrage at the Viet-Nam War Memorial "wall" (the very epitome of a classical Greek war memorial, but I digress.)

The criterion by which a broad grouping is defined will typically leave open a great deal of interpersonal variation. Atheism is, indeed, defined by how someone answers the question of God. There is no reason to think that people who answer the same way would necessarily have anything else in common. All granted.

But it is also unsurprising that many people who agree about anything which is important to them might be similar in other ways as well. Both P.Z. Myers and Thunderf00t think that the world would be a better place if more people answered the question of God the same way they do. So, both of them do things which they estimate will foster that goal.

I can scarcely imagine anybody who has an opinion about anchovies caring what anybody else's opinion about anchovies might be. But religion, like economic and political opinion, has a history of people caring about that. And I'm also confident that if you found somebody agitating against anchovies, and asked them "Why do you care what anybody else thinks about anchovies?" that they, too, would have a story about why the world would be a better place if more people answered the question of pizza toppings the same way they do.

In closing, it has been proposed that you cannot hate what you do not believe exists. This seems demonstrably false. There is nothing about believing that God doesn't exist that excludes acknowledging a serious possibility that he does exist. Possible existence is sufficient to form a rational opinion about something. Hatred is not especially demanding in its requirements for a rational basis anyway.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Sleepwalk7

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Again, misogyny is a universal theme, but in some places it is more militant. Am I to apologize for living in a first world country?


No, but if you're going to complain about misogyny as though you yourself experience it, then I'd like to see some examples. We all know women are treated poorly in countries like Saudi Arabia. That's a given. But I'm more interested in the misogyny that a white(?) privileged woman like yourself deals with.

This post is directed at adjensen as well.
edit on 31-7-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)


Why do you consider me to be privileged? Where does that idea come from? Are you stereotyping me because you assume I am white? Nothing in my statements have indicated that I am white anyway. Do you dislike white American women and why?



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by Sleepwalk7

Originally posted by adjensen

I'm not a woman, lol.

I just find hatred offensive.


Who doesn't?

But my question is what do first world women, especially first world Caucasian women have to deal with?
edit on 1-8-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)


See, this is exactly why you are misogynist. You have complained against Caucasian women, which makes you racist as well as misogynist. You have unfairly lumped me into a group of people you assume you have the right to comment against. You are the prime example of misogyny.

Now regarding the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia and other nations, it is abhorrent and that is why I said it is more militant. You are proving the example that it is militant because nothing you have said has defended those women at all, no, you merely struck back at the women you have issues with. I pray that women in those nations will one day be able to be treated as human beings instead of chattel for the amusement of cruel men. Perhaps if they had the ability to stand up for themselves without fear of death, then things can change for them. That is the core of the issue, women have been taught that they are not permitted to defend themselves and when they do, invariably some man who is misogynist will strike back at them. No sir, you do not expect me to not stand up for myself or any other woman, white or whatever. You want an example of misogyny? You are the example.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
Why do you consider me to be privileged? Where does that idea come from? Are you stereotyping me because you assume I am white? Nothing in my statements have indicated that I am white anyway. Do you dislike white American women and why?


Are you not white?



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
See, this is exactly why you are misogynist. You have complained against Caucasian women, which makes you racist as well as misogynist.


No, I'm asking you what kind of inequalities do women in first world countries go through, especially Caucasian women.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Sleepwalk7

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Why do you consider me to be privileged? Where does that idea come from? Are you stereotyping me because you assume I am white? Nothing in my statements have indicated that I am white anyway. Do you dislike white American women and why?


Are you not white?


Why does it matter? No one asked you about your ethnicity.



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Sleepwalk7

Originally posted by WarminIndy
Why do you consider me to be privileged? Where does that idea come from? Are you stereotyping me because you assume I am white? Nothing in my statements have indicated that I am white anyway. Do you dislike white American women and why?


Are you not white?


Why does it matter? No one asked you about your ethnicity.


Well, you wrote, "Nothing in my statements have indicated that I am white anyway." But this doesn't matter. If you're white, then you're white. If I was mistaken to assume you were a white female, then by all means correct me.

I just find it funny when white women in first world countries complain about inequality and hatred when they're actually more privileged than white men in first world countries.
edit on 3-8-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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By the way, the skeptic or atheist (whatever it is) movement or community (whatever it is) is being torn apart by radical feminists. I'm not actually part of the community, but I do feel sorry for them.



posted on Aug, 3 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Sleepwalk7
By the way, the skeptic or atheist (whatever it is) movement or community (whatever it is) is being torn apart by radical feminists. I'm not actually part of the community, but I do feel sorry for them.


What motivation do the "radical feminists" have to tear that community apart? Do you see the "rape the Skepchicks!" haters as being community building?



posted on Aug, 5 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
What motivation do the "radical feminists" have to tear that community apart? Do you see the "rape the Skepchicks!" haters as being community building?


Skepticism has nothing to do with feminism per se; and the nature of skepticism is to be a critical of everything, including feminism. But the Skepchicks and their supporters are attempting to hijack the skeptic/atheist community to use it as a platform to disseminate feminist propaganda. Unfortunately, some big names within the skeptic/atheist community like PZ Myers and Matt Dillahunty have sided with these Skepchicks and have been defending their exclusivist and bigoted policies. For instance, just recently PZ Myers banned thunderf00t from freethoughtblogs.com after he criticized feminism. And this was relatively shortly after PZ Myers invited thunderf00t to the freethoughtblogs.com community, telling him that he could express any opinion that he wanted.

Also, this idea that there is a disproportionate amount of sexism against women compared to men in general or within the skeptic community is more or less hearsay. I'd say that there is more sexism against men in first world countries and that it is often ignored. In fact, just recently at one of the "Skepchick conferences" the panelists were saying things like men are nothing but women with brains that have been damaged by testosterone. This is blatantly sexist, but did anyone say anything? Nope. Instead, some people were laughing.
edit on 5-8-2012 by Sleepwalk7 because: (no reason given)





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