2012 Sanitized

What if all this paranoia were government created?? What if screwing with your heads were contingent on some other more important agenda?

If I had to guess what all this 2012 paranoia is about, this would be it: 2012 represents a "shift"...in consciousness?? Not quite. Such shifts happen gradually. Rather, 2012 is being regarded as a point of departure from an earlier mode of existence, and the beginning of a new one.

Concomitant with these changes are 'changes in consciousness' of course, as all social changes educe changes in peoples perceptions; but to expect some preternatural event, is highly unlikely (and it's absurd to put as much stock into it as so many of you are doing). However, making preparations for an economic collapse, is less unreasonable, since the current state of our economy warrants such preparation.

So what can you expect? Just look at current geopolitical events! It doesn't take a genius to infer a possible connection between the hype created around the year 2012 and the current Israel-Iran nuclear crisis; If Israel attacks Iran - which they say will undoubtedly happen (although it has quieted down in the recent months, possibly mirroring the stillness before a storm) - there you go, the prospects of WWIII, an extremely horrifying prospect, becomes very plausible. Isn't that an apt starting point for a new world order? A post judeo-christian order (with all it's moral and social ramifications) and the beginning of a New World Order: this war will result in a more homogonized and federalized global government. It is the veritable BIRTH of universal nationhood.

So there it is. That's the ONLY reasonable assumption to make. Anything else is idiocy.

reply to post by dontreally


The way that important international currencies have been moving toward parity in the past couple of years (U.S. dollar/Canadian dollar/Euro) indicates that we are largely one already. The EU is in all these talks about how they need more control over member states to protect the currency. NWO is already here.

I still think this 2012 thing is when some computer company late this year brings out a piece of tech that changes the game. Be it quntum computation (IBM has stated they are close to home quantum computers) or some other life style changing tech.

And, for those of you who missed the premise? The premise of my argument is based on an ancient philosophical belief first enunciated by Plato. There are two types of people; manual workers and philosophers. The former are the vast majority while the latter are a very small minority. The former guide mankind in the ways it is to go while the latter mindlessly accept such leadership while the minority convince them of some exoteric agenda;

Thus, for as long as society has existed, the philosophically educated, the scientific thinkers, have led society in the direction that they mutually agreed upon it should proceed in. Of course, factions are bound to develop and differing groups may possibly vie for control, but just as ancient cultures agreed upon basic fundamental principles - gods - mythological doctrine or theological doctrine, so to, the leaders of our modern world have a basic design for humanity and universal federal government, a unified humanity, with a particular spiritual makeup, is what they all agree upon.

I don't know all the details, of course, and I do recognize differences between the Orwellian vision verses the dystopia satirized by Huxley in his brave new world (which was related to his brother Julian's personal beliefs) and everything in between, I do think there's general agreement at the upper echelons that the judeo-christian order, spawned by Jewish influence (Judaism, the Hebrew Bible) must be expunged from humanities collective unconscious.

Can you deny that the mainstream is already far in this direction?? And are you so ignorant not to be aware that such values - based on moral relativism - is categorically opposed to judeo-christian values???

So, THAT should properly be termed a 'new world order'; just as moral boundaries are being wiped away, so too, will national boundaries be wiped away.

reply to post by watcher3339


Perhaps, but perhaps they desire greater homogeneity than what already exists.

War accelerates political agendas while subtle financial and market manipulations an only do so much. They for instance don't have so great an effect on how we relate with each other, with other nations.

Attitudes change after horrific wars. Such a change in perception is what they probably desire by engineering a world war.

But I agree that there manipulation of currencies and economies has made us much more dependent on one another.

reply to post by dontreally

So there it is. That's the ONLY reasonable assumption to make. Anything else is idiocy.

That makes no sense at all. Sorry. That is just a mess.

Whatever happened to the simple idea that the 2012 baloney is to make money for fringe authors. That is where the hype started. A few New Age authors made up a pile of horse puckey when one of them noticed the Mayan long count would wrap.

The hype of 2012 is sending money from the wallets of the gullible to the wallets of the charlatans and hoaxers. The fact that it works is strong evidence that it is just about money.

reply to post by stereologist

Whatever happened to the simple idea that the 2012 baloney is to make money for fringe authors.

Oh, I don't discount that at all. That too is very real. They make a crap load of money writing books about this subject. But I don't think that is the only element keeping the popularity of 2012 afloat.

On the other hand, you can't be so shallow to think that there isn't a concerted effort at the highest levels to hype the year 2012 because of some deeper metaphysical significance - completely unknown to the majority of people.

There is nothing preternatural about this assertion; no niburu, planet x, pole shifts, solar storms, alien landings etc.. My assertion is premised on the long held though seldom spoken about differentiation between people; philosopher "kings" and the masses. Although democracy exists up to a certain degree, no one can be so naive to think that the leading intellectuals will leave everything up to democratic opinion; it's never been that way, ever, not in ancient greece, not in Rome, it simply does not exist. Therefore, long term agendas which address issues beyond present political concerns are discussed outside the public's eye.

When I suggest that a 3rd world war is being planned, it's in keeping with historical practice: ordo ab chao; philosophically understood, devastation and chaos serve to advance man beyond an earlier order. The earlier order - our present order - is only a stage in a longstanding ambition towards universal government: universal morality, spirituality etc.

You can claim that "this makes no sense" but it is a perfectly justifiable assertion. Plato - whom Alfred North Whitehead called the father of all western thinking (he also said modern philosophy is but a footnote to Greek philosophy) - argued the need for a philosopher class which oversees the workings of society.

All in all, it is an assertion that makes most sense to those people properly educated (i.e. in philosophy, world religion, esotericism, political science, in particular); of course, your welcome to exercise caution, but in no way is my assertion as tenuous as the preternatural doomsday arguments.

I'm not saying doomsday; I'm saying 2012 is symbolic of being the end of one world order and the beginning (probably, like all beginnings, a painful one) of another; The London olympics, for instance, with it's orwellian themes from 1984 (the mascot is a walking telescreen), the fact that London is the veritable birthplace of the modern world order i.e. the industrial revolution, not to mention the worlds universal tongue - English; - how apt that 2012 kick off with the olympics (symbolic of global solidarity) in London.

reply to post by dontreally


The entire 2012 baloney started with New Age authors and has been promoted by fringe people who are not affiliated with government. There is no chance this was planned by any group or agency or organization or government. It is not being used for any purpose other than to fleece the gullible.

There are other things like this:
1. channelers
2. psychic healers
3. spiritual healers
4. free energy

There are lots of things out there that fleece the gullible. 2012 is just one of many.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by dontreally

 

The entire 2012 baloney started with New Age authors and has been promoted by fringe people who are not affiliated with government. There is no chance this was planned by any group or agency or organization or government. It is not being used for any purpose other than to fleece the gullible.

There are other things like this:
1. channelers
2. psychic healers
3. spiritual healers
4. free energy

There are lots of things out there that fleece the gullible. 2012 is just one of many.

did you read what the OP responded to you with in his post above yours? it seems like you are ignoring what he is saying and arguing against things you think he believes in,

reply to post by ImaFungi


I hate to toot my own horn, I really do, but this post deserves a better reception than it has been given.

Generally, philosophically insightful postings, people who are actually educated in scholastically relevant subjects i.e. Plato, Aristotle, Xenephon, Homer/Hesiod, Philo, Josephus, World religions (Judaism/Hebraism, Christianity, Gnosticism, Islam/Sufism - shi'ism, Sunni, Alawwi, Druze - Shaivism, Vishnavism, Shaktism, Taoism, Mahayana/Theravada Buddhism, Zen, Shinto, Shamanic religions etc) political philosophy and all types of esotericism don't seem to get much respect compared to those people who talk about planet X, zionism, reptilians, aliens and whatever else happens to pique peoples emotional fancy.

I was told long ago when I first posted here that my posts wouldn't be appreciated; that certain types of intellectuals - the more philosophically inclined - get bored here very quickly after having to put up with the mind numbing stupidity and ignorance of most of the posters here.....

Alas, I'm here mainly for reasons besides trying to convince people of my philosophical beliefs. This to me seems perfectly plausible, and indeed, in light of other information, appears even more likely. Thanks for realizing that. And yes, It is astounding how often I encounter people who seem to not realize how to conduct an honest argument. There minds are no where near effective enough to climb the ladder of illusion and disinformation to arrive at the truth.

And this, unfortunately, is probably why they need this world before them to be shattered before their eyes.

reply to post by dontreally


I think the theory you posed is very plausible and also meshes into the realm of hidden cabal created conspiracies,,.,. I think ive heard something like it mentioned before,,, that maybe the elite started this idea of 2012 to give credence and anticipation to the christians and muslims that the end of times promised by the word of god is at hand,,,, and when it does not occur maybe there will be a falling out of religion ( would be considered part of the plan for people to not separate themselves by another barrier of religion,, but come together as humans),,, or maybe it will lead to massive conflict,,,,

a thought ive played around with,,, is,, high leaders going back to rome ( possibly beyond) either psychically, prophetically, mystically, or straight up intellectually ( think as how a science fiction writer creates a work, or we can predict or imagine certain things of the future ) imagined the exponential potential of mankind as they saw and have heard and seen first hand the progress of man, and the wonders of life,,, perhaps they imagined the degrees of power that could be held,,, perhaps they imagined the massive populations and relations,, maybe even dreamnt of possible for then pipe dream technology,,, but maybe they knew a time would come,, when the world would be civilized and scientifically advanced enough to unite and live in peace ( new world order),, and they knew that they would want their elite lineage to remain in power through blood and close friend like family,,, so maybe those high leaders wrote instructions for the future to be followed by their predecessors,,, maybe this is even where revelations comes from,,,, I personally believe that the attempt to create a new world order is an obvious and unavoidable and intelligent one,,,,, the unimaginable advancement in medicine, technology, and science will see it be no other way,,,

now the other thing to look at is if the elite is heartless and evil in ways,,, and wouldnt mind shedding the earth of a few billions people before handing out the free energy device, food materializers, and jet packs,,,,

reply to post by ImaFungi

did you read what the OP responded to you with in his post above yours? it seems like you are ignoring what he is saying and arguing against things you think he believes in

No at all. The point is that there are parallels to the claims of 2012 that are just as poorly thought out and have just as unsubstantiated a basis and no one is claiming these other areas lead to some odd conspiracy.

reply to post by dontreally

Alas, I'm here mainly for reasons besides trying to convince people of my philosophical beliefs. This to me seems perfectly plausible, and indeed, in light of other information, appears even more likely. Thanks for realizing that. And yes, It is astounding how often I encounter people who seem to not realize how to conduct an honest argument. There minds are no where near effective enough to climb the ladder of illusion and disinformation to arrive at the truth.

Your argument is flimsy at best. It makes little sense if any at all.

What if all this paranoia were government created?? What if screwing with your heads were contingent on some other more important agenda?

Do you think this is the first thread about this? Despite your vitriolic commentary about other posters this has to be the most trite pair of questions at ATS.

After a bit of blather you end with this non sequitur:

So there it is. That's the ONLY reasonable assumption to make. Anything else is idiocy.

Look at some of the poor arguments used to reach this position:

Just look at current geopolitical events! It doesn't take a genius to infer a possible connection between the hype created around the year 2012 and the current Israel-Iran nuclear crisis

It doesn't take a genius is right. It is completely delusional to see a connection.

reply to post by ImaFungi


I'm sure that Arguelles would be so happy to learn that he is being labeled an agent of TPTB. So is McKenna also an agent of TPTB? Is Drunvalo an agent of TPTB? Are any of these other prophets of nonsense agents of TPTB?

reply to post by stereologist


it is possible that TPTB have been planning for change and or knowing one will come,,,,,,,,,,

it is possible other people in the world such as the ones you named would desire change,,, The Op is stating the seedling of idea of big change in 2012 could have been planted by TPTB,,,.
why everyone you named and everyone in cyberworld would latch onto the ideas and claims that to you are unsubstantial and have no basis or rational reason for existence Idk,,,,,
oh, i do think the new agey ancient aliens on history channel,, alien forums,,, 2012 aliens are gonna save us websites and forums may have something to do with TPTB,,,, here are the people who dont fit in with the status quo,,, who are pretty observant and benevolent and partly desiree the outcomes of "2012" to bring a positive change in their lives,, if these millions of people worldwide lived in any other time period with todays available technology,,, they wouldnt be filling their heads with fairytales hoping they will be swopped up by aliens and the world saved with finger snapping,,, they would be protesting and writing manifestos logical and reasonable depicting all the observational wrong doings done in the world today,,but a lot of them areee doing that type of stuff as well a la david wilcox people and all that,,, who tune in and donate and allow their shepherd to bring them all the good news of coming change,.,... I personally and obviously cannot say without a doubt what the near future brings,, and history is full of wild times,,,, but the days we are living in are interesting to say the least,,,
keep up the good work,,,

reply to post by ImaFungi


You're joking right? You are suggesting that instead of this taking the normal route which is New Agers looking at things and cranking out ideas you think that this was purposely done with some knowledge that this would catch the popular fancy?

So what obscure facts are they planting today to change the future in 30 years? The long count date is a fact. The odd ideas have been brewing out of that fact for decades. That sounds like a particularly poor plan don't you think? I mean planting a few ideas and hoping they take hold. Pets rocks did and robot eggs did not.

This sounds so impractical and prone to failure that it makes no sense that this is a purposeful plan.

reply to post by stereologist

Your argument is flimsy at best. It makes little sense if any at all.

So what doesn't make sense? Which premise are you arguing?? Besides mentioning and then rementioning your dislike for "new ager's" (which is completely irrelevant to this thread) you haven't even addressed any of my points.

So, what do you oppose? Do you challenge the basic premise of a distinction between the masses and the elite (or in Plato's terminology, manual workers and philosophers)???

If you acknowledge this, and also, you appreciate some of the social and cultural revolutions occurring before our eyes i.e. from the old Judeo-christian order (with all it's moral/spiritual/social and ultimately cultural implications) to a New World Order which obviates traditional moral 'prejudices' such as gender roles (based on metaphysical assumptions) modesty, etc - all of these moral distinctions being predicated on the assumption that society should mirror patterns in nature - eg. that men shouldn't sleep with other men because nature is based on a complementarity between masculine and feminine energies, thus any departure from fundamental pattern is a 'sin' against natural law (and thus natures artificer)........Opposed to this traditional system is a moral relativistic one redolent more of gnostic metaphysical assumptions; assumptions found in the esoteric dimensions in most major religions i.e. in Christianity, where the Pleroma (unity) enters the matrix of reality through the intermediary of the Sophia (or in allegorical terms, mary gives birth to christ), in Islam-Sufism, In Hinduism, tantra in particular, where the shakti (energy within creation) rises up the 7 chakras of the body towards Shiva, affecting the union of physical and metaphysical energies, and in all schools of Buddhism. The essential idea in each of these systems is an emphasis on the Absolute - Godhead (Pleroma impregnating the Sophia and producing the 'Christ' in basic psychological terms means making the perception of the godhead your ordinary perception) imposing on the normal everyday order the "reality" of the Godhead; in opposition to the Judeo-christian emphasis on patterns within the created order (which the gnostics identified as worship of the 'demiurge' - natures Creator) which necessitates a program and structure in everyday living. As the recent Batman movie (based at it is on Jungian psychology) says at the very end "structure becomes our shackles"

When you see 2012 - which marks the 'end' SYMBOLICALLY - of the old order and the beginning of the new - coincide with geopolitical issues such as the Israel-Iran nuclear debacle (not to mention predictions made in the Jewish Zohar which see's Persia attack Israel before the 'end of days' - which only adds to your fascination with this idea) you begin to wonder...."Geez, are there people out there at the highest levels manipulating geo-political events to mirror a metaphysical doctrine"? Again, if you're well read and understand the fundamental differences between Judaic-Hebraic thinking and "pagan" or modern thinking (which is essentially pagan in character), it appears very plausible that a future world war initiated by an Israeli attack on Iran is perhaps symbolic of the final death-throes of the old world order (symbolized by Israel - and this also helps explain the obnoxious UN bias against Israel) predicated as it is on differentiation and restriction (in both moral and national terms; moral differentiations and national differentiations can be seen as extensions of a more fundamental archetypal outlook) in living, against the New World Order, which is symbolic of man's victory over nature - over the finite world - over the nation which has 'polluted' mankind with it's prudishness of conscience, of traditional morality which infringes of mankinds 'freedom'; the older order is nationalistic - just as the Hebrew Bible is nationalistic - while the New World order, consistent with it's emphasis on Unity between opposites, is desirous of wiping away both moral and national boundaries..

You used a few impressive words in your post, such as 'non-sequitur; but, in order to appreciate 'what follows logically' you have to be educated in the appropriate areas that the subject matter entails an understanding of. You don't seem to be competent in any of these areas; and i'm not talking about "new age"; I mean basic hellenistic philosophy, Plato, Aristotle, Greek Mythology (Homer, Hesiod in particular) Plotinus, Philo, Gnosticism (valentinian in particular) Manicheanism, Sufism, etc... When you juxtapose these belief systems against Judaism or Hebraism (to use a term coined by Elijah benamozegh) it becomes exceedingly clear why the Jews have been subjected to such harshness by both Christians (in particular) and Muslims, and why Hitler and his germanorden so fervently despised Jews:

Besides that, Heuss was mistaken about the origins of Hitler’s hatred of the Jews. He did however, identify what linked the Austrian private and the Germanophile English philosopher. In contrast to the majority of the people Chamberlain saw Jewry as presenting not a socio-political but a metaphysical problem, one which concerned not only the Germans but the whole of mankind. It was a question not of power and influence but of Being and Non-Being. There is no other way to explain how Chamberlain, a lover of Goethe, could have written those sinister words which anticipated the fateful actions of Hitler. “With all the strength at my command” Chamberlain confessed to the theologian Alfred Von Harnack, “I Hate the Jews and hate them and hate them!” “The Jews very existence is an offense against the divine laws of life”, he declared, adding cryptically that they could only be ‘purged’ from an “offense…they have committed without knowing it”. Whether it is to be those who carry out this purgation, or the people in whose name they carry it out, who are to remain unconscious of it, Chamberlain deliberately leaves open. In their rabid detestation of this “race of criminals” and their anticipation of its radical purgation the two men will have quickly found themselves to be of one mind when they met in a darkened room where the bedridden philosopher lay. – Joachim Kohler, Wagner’s Hitler, pg. 170, Polity Press

reply to post by dontreally

So what doesn't make sense? Which premise are you arguing?? Besides mentioning and then rementioning your dislike for "new ager's" (which is completely irrelevant to this thread) you haven't even addressed any of my points.

That has nothing to do with it and I have not stated that in this thread.

Reread what I posted and you will be able to understand the issue at hand. I think you can do it. I might be wrong, but I think you can do it.

So, what do you oppose? Do you challenge the basic premise of a distinction between the masses and the elite (or in Plato's terminology, manual workers and philosophers)???

Another straw man argument in the making.

Nothng you post after that has anything whatsoever to do with 2012.

Consider this remark from the OP

It doesn't take a genius to infer a possible connection between the hype created around the year 2012 and the current Israel-Iran nuclear crisis

It takes a delusional person to see any connection.

Your idea here is completely irrational. It has no substance.