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Nazi stamp and United States Presidential stamp on Luger

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posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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To start off, here's a brief explanation of how i acquired these pictures and their background.

Recently I was sent pictures from a friend who inherited an old gun from his aunt that belonged to his uncle who is now dead. The pictures contain a Luger, although not quite sure of the model, it is old and belonged to someone from WWI & WWII. The reason I was sent these pictures was because the friend who now has this gun is wondering why it has a Nazi engraved stamp and a United States Presidential sign on the same gun.










Why does the gun have engraved Nazi and U.S. Presidential stamps. Hoping someone will be able to tell me something about this.




posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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That's insane! Our presidents aren't Nazis--they're Fascists!

But no... no idea, really. You've probably come to the right place, though; there's probably some historian around here who's not only heard of this, but has a perfectly logical explanation....

Edit: I'm going to try to do some research on this. That thing might be worth a fortune.
edit on 7/30/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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That is very interesting. And what a beautiful gun. The coloring looks different around the U.S logo. My guess is that someone had that stamping added after it was obtained.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Could the previous owner have replaced parts on the gun? Maybe thats how the seals got mixed together. I would say the barrel was already like that and the grip was added later.
edit on 30-7-2012 by Bigfoot12714 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Hi there,

as stated above , i think the grip ( with the US seal ) was added later on,
My late Grandfather had one and he added a British army grip to it .

a lot of Lugers were brought back and the owners wanted to put their own mark on it so to speak.

snoopyuk



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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I would think finding spare parts for a Luger P08 would be hard enough,let alone spare parts that for some reason have a United States logo on it. Our guys were using 1911's back then. It looks as though it was stamped on,and had bluing sprayed on that area,like they taped up the gun besides a square where the logo resides.All the other etchings look like they are supposed to be there,as opposed to the U.S logo.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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My grandfather had one of those very similar to that, it too had a seal on the handle.

He told me it was because the one he had was damaged and he had it replaced during the War.

As others have said here.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by lsnypvcs
 


Well, there is a logical explanation after all. Here's an extremely interesting .pdf concerning this very practice (the trade in engraved Lugers).

Collecting engraved Lugers

Collecting engraved Luger Pistols or caveat emptor!

by Klaus Leibnitz

In the last years decorated Luger pistols have appeared on the market, mainly in the US, but also in Europe and they all appear to be forgeries. This does not mean that the pistols themselves are forgeries, but it looks as if the engraving or decoration had been done many years later in order to increase the value of these guns. The following paper tries to
approach the problem of increasing the value of old military weapons by decorating them
from an analytical point of view. After having done this, the fakes are clearly shown for
what they really are, old service pistols nicely made up.

What is called Luger pistol here in this paper refers to the gun which , in Europe, is also
known as the Parabellum Pistole or Pistole 08...


It's a pretty quick read, at 16 pages--but covers pretty much everything you'd ever want to know....
edit on 7/30/2012 by Ex_CT2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Ex_CT2
 


Very interesting. So in addition to the U.S stamp on the top,just behind the barrel.The etchings and decorative handgrips could have been,and probably were, added after the war. The U.S stamp sticks out like a sore thumb IMO,but the rest looks very well done.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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I'd have 2 questions and 1 depends on the other.

Can you have your friend disassemble this and verify serial numbers across the various parts? Having sold a Walther with 1945 history to it last year, I learned how critical that one detail is. If they match, you have something. If they don't? Well.. how's it shoot for a functional range gun?

If they match...then I'd have your friend take it to a fine gun appraiser or, if they live near a Bass Pro Shop, take it in there and ask. Cabellas also has a few locations with Fine gun rooms and the staff working inside are priceless, no pun intended, for giving thumbnail values and an idea of whether something is worth paying for a better analysis or just keeping as a very nice keepsake.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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You need to go to a Luger forum somewhere. If that thing is original, it is worth a fortune. But be concerned (maybe not for yourself) however, because that gun will have a history and it may not be, shall we say, proper.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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The gun is a Pre War DMW Luger.
Is it in .30 Cal or 9mm?
Engraving Original
The grips appear fake. The eagle lacks the definitions of German produced Grips, However it is not impossible. The Grips appear newer plastic. The color scheme appears to be of the NSSK (Transportation)

The Seal was clearly added later. I believe it is used by the Federal Ordnance company who re issues WWII weapons as commemoration.

However the grips if real could be worth 3x as much as the pistol I have seen ornate Luger grips such as these sell for $2000

I would honestly need a complete break down on the guns to make a judgment. Does the side have any WAA markings Eagle/#. Is it all matching.

When judging WWII weapons providence is everything. I no longer buy any German weapons unless they have the original military capture papers with them. The losers weapons are always worth more, so the more apt to be faked.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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First off this isn't engraved - it's chemically etched, meaning the designs aren't cut in using tools but rather applied by using a light sensitive mask and transparent film which is then placed in acid to remove the areas to be decorated.
I was a gun engraver for over 25 years and I've seen many strange lugers but none like this.
Odds are someone did these modifications and added the grips to try to bilk some money from a collector.
Where the Presidential seal is located is where the manufacturer's stamp normally is.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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The marking on the receiver shows its a DWM manufactured firearm.
And the United States seal could be found on these lugers between 1900 and 1907.
The shape of the round rear sight would indicate a later model luger of around 1906 or 1907.

But what you have is a replica.

The grips are not authentic.
The United States seal is wrong. It should look like this:



The gun is missing the stamped on serial numbers and "Germany" mark that would make it an authentic DWM American Eagle luger. It is a fake that looks to have been manufactured to get more money out of collectors. A real American Eagle luger from the early 1900's would be worth around $2000 - $3000.






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