Talos-The guardian robot of Minoan Crete

Here guys,

Check this out. It is a lost history of the Antikythera device found in the papers of French archaeologist and historian Alain Brise after he died. The author of this original piece, Rob Beschizza of the University of Rockall, presents the story accompanied by a 'mixtape' of music. Be sure to look for the links as you read and scroll. It is one of the best examples of UGC I have ever seen and I hope that you all dig it as much as I have.

The Mixtape Lost at Antikythera



X.

Originally posted by Astyanax
King Minos was also a myth (brother of the god Hephaestos) not a real king.

Of course "King Minos" was a myth, but I have no doubt that he was based on a real Cretan king (or more probably, an amalgamation of a few different kings).

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


Herodotus has known to be incorrect on more than one occasion.

Herodotus offers comparisons between Babylonia and Egypt, and in those cases, he is always wrong and may be repeating a story told by Egyptian priests.

Entemenanki

Since he wasn't there when they were built, I would not hold his word as gospel truth.

Originally posted by stupid girl
Herodotus has known to be incorrect on more than one occasion.

True. But then, name me a historian who hasn't been...

Of course he got his information from the priests - how else could he have got it? The question is: do you believe them? And, if not, why would they tell him lies about how the pyramid was created?

And don't forget, Herodotus tells us that he saw with his own eyes an inscription on the outer casing stones (now gone) which recorded "the quantity of radishes, onions, and garlick consumed by the labourers who constructed it". That would support the priests version of events. Herodotus had no reason to question them - why should we?

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by stupid girl
Herodotus has known to be incorrect on more than one occasion.

True. But then, name me a historian who hasn't been...

Of course he got his information from the priests - how else could he have got it? The question is: do you believe them? And, if not, why would they tell him lies about how the pyramid was created?

And don't forget, Herodotus tells us that he saw with his own eyes an inscription on the outer casing stones (now gone) which recorded "the quantity of radishes, onions, and garlick consumed by the labourers who constructed it". That would support the priests version of events. Herodotus had no reason to question them - why should we?

you should always question that which we can't be certain.

It is not outside of the realm of possibility that what Herodotus saw was written about the workers who simply performed re-construction work on the pyramid.

And they would tell lies because man has the proclivity towards pride, thus the pharoah and his entourage would be more than inclined to claim the glory for building something that was already there, but was in such a state of disrepair that the amount of reconstruction invested into the project appeared as building the whole shebang.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147

I have no doubt that he was based on a real Cretan king (or more probably, an amalgamation of a few different kings)

Yes, the name was probably once attached to a real person. He may have been one prominent king whose name lived on into historical times, or there may have been a lineage of kings named Minos. In the old Greek stories the name of the King of Crete was usually Minos.

Some, though, have thought the Minoans were matriarchal, ruled by queens rather than kings. It's an idea that's popular among feminist academics, though I don't know how much evidence there really is for it:

My first encounter with the theory that prehistory was matriarchal came in 1979 in a class titled "Minoan and Mycenaean Greece." While on site at Knossos, our professor—an archaeologist with the American School of Classical Studies in Athens—noted that the artifactual evidence on the island of Crete pointed toward Minoan society being matriarchal. I don't recall much of what he said in defense of this assertion or what he meant by "matriarchal." All of this is overshadowed in my memory by the reaction of the other members of the class to the professor's statement: they laughed. Some of them nervously, some derisively. One or two expressed doubt. The general sentiment went something like this: "As if women would ever have run things, could ever have run things ... and if they did, men surely had to put an end to it!" And, as my classmates gleefully noted, men did put an end to it, for it was a matter of historical record, they said, that the civilization of Minoan Crete was displaced by the apparently patriarchal Mycenaeans. Source

*

reply to post by Xoanon

I think you might have added, for the sake of the innocents among us, that your link is to a work of fiction. A rather good one, I thought.

reply to post by Planet teleX

Interesting. I've read somewhere else that the mythical Vimana used mercury as well.

Is it not true that all Myths have a basis in Facts and History? After study of the stories, I have concluded that the Vimanas and their celestial battles were quite real. The humans saw them, saw what they were doing, and wrote it all down.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Planet teleX

 

Interesting. I've read somewhere else that the mythical Vimana used mercury as well.

Is it not true that all Myths have a basis in Facts and History? After study of the stories, I have concluded that the Vimanas and their celestial battles were quite real. The humans saw them, saw what they were doing, and wrote it all down.

And what have you concluded after studying the myth of Paul Bunyan?

Giant blue oxen roamed the American West?

Harte

reply to post by Harte




Touche.......

And win, for the Blue Ox.

Originally posted by Planet teleX

...that were using mercury to operate.

Interesting. I've read somewhere else that the mythical Vimana used mercury as well.

Edit: Link

edit on 30/7/2012 by Planet teleX because: (no reason given)

Very interesting,thank you for the link.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

And you say Crete had no defensive walls? Well, perhaps there's the answer as to the origin of the myth. To scare other Greeks away from a vulnerable island...

Very possible,that they created the myth of a gigantic robot to protect the island.Crete was never attacked by anyone,the Minoan civilazation was destroyed after the volcanic eruption of Thera.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by Phantom traveller

 

If they could make that then, and they are returning creators...what could they do today! I think beyond our comprehension.

Well If this is not a myth,i can't even begin to comprehend the levels of technology these "gods"would have today.To be honest deep down i really wish that this is not a myth

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Phantom traveller

 

SnF op good read, a lot lighter on deatails than one would wish though. Damnit, the story was just getting good when it ended, now I will have to actually do somthing instead of waiting for someone to post somthing interesting. Gj op you have roused me from the couch, now I gotta screw the brain cap back on and find the rest of the details I don't know.

Bastards making me get off my ass and type iin key word searches, should have just stayed off the net today. With their damned, good mythological tidbits, now I wanna know more. : and thus IP disapears for many hours until his curiousity is finally sated, after 36 hours of constant reading and research.

Unfortunatelly there are not much more on the myth or the story of the man who supposedly found the tomb.I'm searching these stuff for years,but with no luck of finding more info.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
S & F

I remember reading book upon book at my local library on the history of the region regarding this topic and a few others which fired my imagination then and still to this day. I'm glad there are a few here at ATS who share this interest.

As far as Egypt having robots. The closes thing I can think of was when it was explained to the Greeks how they built the Great Pyramids it was mentioned or mistranslated as such that they used "Machines" How they were made or what of or even what those were we'll never know.

I highly doubt it was similar in reference to the OP's context

My father was born in Crete and upon all the Greek myths and legends,the ones come from the island are my favourite ones.
I have spent counteless hours as a child exploring caves and mountains ,secretely hoping to find something,and even more hours listening to the stories from old villagers.

I love the ancient world and i have the greatest respect for our ancestors and i hope one day that we will discover all their secrets.

reply to post by Astyanax

I don't recall any mention of robots in Herodotus either. Nor is Talos mentioned in Iliad 18 as the OP says; that chapter is about the making of Achilles' shield by Hephaestos – maybe somebody googled 'men of bronze' (decorations on the shield), got a hit on the Iliad and didn't bother to read any further.

I didn't say that Homer mentioned Talos.I mentioned Iliad,as a referance to other creations of Hephaestos.
I have read Homer's epics more times than i can count.
Since my thread didn't have any internet sources to link,i thought that it would be the right thing to link the books that i mentioned.

King Minos was also a myth (brother of the god Hephaestos) not a real king. Crete was already an advanced civilization when the Greeks were just getting started in the game, so early Cretan history was their prehistory. King Minos was the king of Crete in Greek myth-time.

Have you ever been to Crete?Have you ever visited the palace?Yes, King Minos was a myth,but in the heart of most Creatan people was as real as you and me.

I always thought the Golum (not from Lord of the Rings silly) from Hebrew lore was possibly a robot of some kind!

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Astyanax


Hello my friend

I think you might have added, for the sake of the innocents among us, that your link is to a work of fiction. A rather good one, I thought.

Well, I deliberated over what to do about that for about 60 seconds and then just decided to let folks fend for themselves. You're right; there should have been a warning label. I am so glad that you liked it. It has stuck with me from the first reading, it is very good.

I also think that it is very cool that we are on to historical fiction and Minos and Crete. My favorite treatment of all of those, is Mary Renault's The King Must Die and The Bull from The Sea. Have you ever had the chance to read them?



X.

reply to post by Xoanon

The King Must Die and The Bull from The Sea. Have you ever had the chance to read them?

Yes, both, and most of her other books, too. I went through a Mary Renault phase in my late teens. They were lent me by a gay friend, for whom they had an obvious appeal beyond the purely historical or fictional.

I often wondered at the time whether Renault was the nom de plume of a gay man. In this internet age, of course, there's no need to wonder, and following your reminder, I thought to check. It turns out she was a gay woman.

In 1933 she began training as a nurse at the Radcliffe Infirmary in Oxford. During her training she met Julie Mullard, a fellow nurse with whom she established a lifelong romantic relationship. Wikipedia

How odd. Still, we mustn't let ourselves drift too far off topic.

Originally posted by Phantom traveller

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
And you say Crete had no defensive walls? Well, perhaps there's the answer as to the origin of the myth. To scare other Greeks away from a vulnerable island...

Very possible,that they created the myth of a gigantic robot to protect the island.Crete was never attacked by anyone,the Minoan civilazation was destroyed after the volcanic eruption of Thera.

That is not actually known.

What is known is that the Minoan civilization went on for a few centuries after the Thera eruption, ending finally around 1400 BC, when the palace at Knossos was destroyed in an earthquake.

After that, the Mycenaeans ruled Crete.

Whether the Mycenaeans actually invaded and defeated the Minoans is not known, but Mycenaean warriors from that time period are buried on Crete.

Harte

Comment on the Antikytheria device

The device is a wondrous thing, showing remarkable mechanical knowledge but using the metallurgy of the time. It does have encoded within it a secret that when known removes it as evidence of 'advanced humans' or ‘ancient aliens’. It was built to portray astrological calculations - based on a geocentric world view.

reply to post by Phantom traveller


I lived on Crete for two years. Visited Knossos several times as well as traveled the entire island. First I've heard of robot walking around Crete. Interesting though.

Talos is one of my favorites. Didn't the Story of Gilgamesh have a robot in it or was it a robotic bull?