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White House gives cool welcome to bill restricting online ammo sales

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posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 


Read my above post. There is a huge mark up on ammo.
If you buy 20, 20 round boxes of mosin nagant ammo in a store you will likely pay around 7 bucks a box. So by the time you have shot up 880 rounds (which may take place over a year or several years) you have spent 308 dollars. If you buy the ammo bulk in a can with 880 rounds you pay around 135 dollars. That is a huge price difference. The ammo lasts forever so it actually ONLY makes sense to buy in bulk.

Also anyone that has a gun knows how fast you can run through ammo if you go to a shooting range or have a shooting gallery at your home. You might shoot through a couple boxes one day and if you bought those a box at a time you will have burned through quite a bit of money.

If you knew anything about guns I wouldn't have to explain this. Anyone that thinks banning buying in bulk is sensible and anyone that thinks people should be recorded every time they buy ammo, those people are out of touch and ignorant of the situation. This isn't about catching people before they do something, it's about keeping tabs on certain people, otherwise they wouldn't have suggested records of every ammo purchase no matter what size. What on EARTH could that possible prevent?




posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Oh come on now people, as a person who is pro gun control, I can see the other sides point of view of wanting to own a gun or two. But ammunition? Seriously? How can you justify needing to buy ammunition in bulk online? Also, if the ammo is just for hunting or going to the gun range, why do you care if records are kept?
since you are not a gun fan of any kind, i seriously doubt you'll understand this ... however, online bulk buying is GREAT for gifting, (yes, i've given ammo as a gift), it's a customer friendly experience {how many big box stores can say that?}, it's a financial savings overall and i don't have to leave my home to complete the transaction.

since you can do the same for knives, garden tools, crossbows and the like, what is the deal over ammunition ??
ppl can buy bolts/arrows by the dozen/gross, can get knives the same way, can get pretty much anything at most any quantity desired. if ONE legal item can be restricted, legally, what's next ??

ppl can buy sex toys, s&m equipment, bondage tools, chain, duck tape, rope, a wide variety of power sources and every other implement necessary to commit a crime ... still doesn't mean they INTEND to do so.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:21 AM
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Why is amount of ammo on hand equated with violent action at all?

Out of 6,000 rounds Holmes got off less than a hundred. I doubt he carried more than 200 with him to the theater.

So then any order of 100 should be scrutinized in this manner if "safety" is the goal.

Say I'm sitting on 45,000+ rounds, so what? I can only physically fire so many at a time. I only have 2 arms.

Even with two arms, two AR's and two cmag's that's still 200 rounds ready to go. Why is that 44,800 rounds at home worthy of regulation?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by tovenar

And the requirement that dealers keep records of all sales; isn't that lovely?


You do know that businesses are already required by law to maintain records of sales for five years? At least that's how it's done in the UK. I would assume that you have similar trade laws in the US. This is basic consumer protection. These records are kept by retailers for longer than that too.

I don't suppose you're aware that on-line retailers record your name, address, products ordered, IP address, payment method, date of order, time on site, pages visited, products viewed, regional location...

This is not new. People are trying to find any reason they can to scream about the government stealing their "rights". It is not in the constitution that you can buy ammo over the internet, in a supermarket, at your children's school...

You have the right to own weapons, but that does not automatically translate to anyone being able to buy these things anywhere they like without jumping through some hoops.

I am all for Americans owning guns (not weapons capable of murdering hundreds of people a minute, but guns intended for self defence). But I think a lot of Americans need to grow up and stop screaming about it every time the government uses some common sense.

You have the right to own guns. That does not mean the government is obliged to make it as easy for you as possible.

I would support this bill. I would also support a restriction on the types of weapons able to be bought. There is no need for an American to own a weapon capable of murdering hundreds of people in 60 seconds. No excuses for it at all.

And enough with the BS "it's so we can overthrow our government". That is an excuse that the American population have no right to use since you allowed your government to strip away your rights under the Patriot Act. You don't even protest over things and yet you claim gun ownership is about being able to fight back?

You can't fight government oppression sitting on your ass in front of the TV. American's seem to think they can as long as they have their precious guns.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


You do realize that they don't keep records of WHO bought ammo, and that that is what he is referring to don't you? We are talking about local dealers. It is suggesting that all licensed dealers will begin keeping those kinds of records. Not just online. I am not absolutely sure you are correct about online companies having to keep that data about anything but gun purchases though. I am actually pretty sure they only keep the information from guns otherwise it would be a ridiculous amount of information being kept that isn't required to be kept.
edit on 31-7-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 
when are you foreigners going to learn that no rights are granted by the US Constitution, period.

It is not in the constitution that you can buy ammo over the internet, in a supermarket, at your children's school...
it doesn't need to be, it's a given.

it is my right to life, hence it is my right to defend that life with whatever means necessary, period. this ^^^ IS my Constitutionally protected right.


that does not automatically translate to anyone being able to buy these things anywhere they like without jumping through some hoops.
actually, it does.
anything beyond that (such as the restrictions currently imposed) are by agreement, not Constitutionally stipulated.

ppl can and do still get fully automated machine guns (uzi ring a bell?)
ppl still get gatling guns, cannons, tanks and any other armament available, whether legal or not.

the simple fact that this right "shall not be infringed" does mean just that.

the government has NO common sense, shame on you for assuming it might.


You have the right to own guns. That does not mean the government is obliged to make it as easy for you as possible.
yes, actually it does ... when you place any restriction on the act of obtaining a weapon, you have "infringed" upon that right, period.

so long as the opponent has access to one, we deserve equal access.

hahahahaha and those foreign types
, can't get it right in their own lands but they sure want to interfere in ours ... times sure haven't changed much have they ??



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


The rest? Well, the 1,000 round limit is totally absurd and so is the license to SELL ammunition. I got over 10,000 rounds of various calibers in factory produced ammunition alone as part of my late Father's estate. Under this, I couldn't sell it? Oh that's a crock. 1,000 rounds? I've literally fired more than that in just screwing around on the range for a single weapon, on a single visit. 8 hours of defensive pistol training, where most was spent talking and lecture, still expended 500 rounds for the day. The limits are being picked by people who have NO CLUE what the shooting sports are about or how real people actually pursue their sport.



Yes and one could still buy 52,000 rounds of ammo a year without the dealer having to report it.

What this bill is is a small erosion......taking down the 2A one brick at a time. Looking like a harmless and useless probe but really a root diging deeper.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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People think 1000 rounds is a lot? I shot off 2000 rounds yesterday in my backyard range.......
I buy nothing but bulk, no other way of buying is worth it. Screw these retards and their legislation.
edit on Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:51:43 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Oh come on now people, as a person who is pro gun control, I can see the other sides point of view of wanting to own a gun or two. But ammunition? Seriously? How can you justify needing to buy ammunition in bulk online? Also, if the ammo is just for hunting or going to the gun range, why do you care if records are kept?



Dont have to justify it there......peachy.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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This is simply to track ammo sales. And make it hard to get ammo. Hard to shoot your gun without bullets. Sounds like they will know who,where, when & how much. That's all they need. Then the crackdown will come. Maybe some surprise inspections at your home of your supply of arms & ammo. Glad I got mine stocked up.

You can bet bottom dollar they will add to this legislation, would'nt surprise me if the actually limit what you can purchase anywhere, anytime. Those who allready have plenty of ammo, good for you. Those who don't. I would stock up pretty quick, before thay make it really hard to get. I predict online ammo sales will go thru the roof till this pass's. I think I'll jump off here this a.m. and Order me some from Cheaper Than Dirt , really good place really cheap prices, bulk sales, easy ordering, prompt delivery. Never. ever had a round fail from this company.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


I beleive it's called a "right to privacy". It's the same if they want to know how many cans of corn I purchased at the grocer. It's none of anybodies business what I purchase or the amounts of it I purchase. Sorry for the 1 liner mods.
edit on 31-7-2012 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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I routinely purchase surplus 7.62x54 rounds in lots of 2,000+ and will sometimes shoot that many rounds in a weekend of range shooting. This bill is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to the Aurora shooting, and proves that while I am very sympathetic to the victims, the collateral damage from these types of shootings is that each time they happen we see a further assault on our second amendment.

As I have said repeatedly, take away guns and people will resort to other methods of inflicting death and destruction. I often wonder, when TPTB are so quick to enact tighter gun laws after these incidents, if situations such as this are nit some covert CIA or other alphabet agency operation designed to set a precedence to further the anti gun agenda. That may sound far fetched but the man that did the shooting in Aurora had a 96% accuracy rate. Anyone whom has been in a situation such as that will know that is astounding accuracy on moving targets. Add to that the fact that he supposedly had just recently started shooting and collecting guns, something doesn't add up. Hell I was a sniper element in my SWCC Team in the Navy and can honestly say that man had better accuracy than a good 60% of my team.

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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I usually purchase 500 rounds of .223 at a time. I have always bought bulk online because, like others posted, it is far cheaper than purchasing it locally in a store where 99% of the time they only sell 20 round boxes, $8.99 each.
$224.75+ tax if I were to purchase 500 rounds in the store. After hearing about this bill yesterday, I went online and ordered more!
$169 shipped. If they pass this bill they should also pass one regulating prices in stores to keep it cheap like online, I know, wishful thinking.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Oh come on now people, as a person who is pro gun control, I can see the other sides point of view of wanting to own a gun or two. But ammunition? Seriously? How can you justify needing to buy ammunition in bulk online? Also, if the ammo is just for hunting or going to the gun range, why do you care if records are kept?


So I can buy 999 rounds "under the radar"? How about 3 different orders of 999? oops 3 people short of a 3,000 "death toll"? Can't you recognize "feel good idiocy" when you see it.?

Yes if they collect data on total cumulative ammunition purchases they would build quite a"useful" database for when President Schumer and v.p. Fienstien( or Pelosi or lautenberg or Boxer etal they are interchangeable) move in to 1600 penn ave.

Finally the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting or "sporting purposes" Or justifying a "NEED" to a non-shooter. I don't NEED an appendectomy today but I might Someday; and 500 rounds IS just a day at the range.
edit on 31-7-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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Though experiment:
Okay:
999 rounds seems a bit excessive...Lets cut it down to? what's reasonable to you ? 50? cartridges?
Hypothetically:

I load and carry my 50 legal cartridges into 5 individual short U.N./CA. legal 10 round magazines. One mag in the rifle 4; in pouches. Typical Combat load for a soldier is closer to 200 on his person.

Would it then be okay with you to kill 30 innocents? Given 20 outright misses; then draw my pistol with another 50 cartridges of a different caliber? Say 20 casualties with the handgun+30 with rifle. before "I" am stopped by an armed Swat team?????????????Well that's right out then.

50 Okay with you ? of course not!: lets ride this thought horse to the finish:

ONE Cartridge!
each and every projectile is serial numbered and purchased individually! I already don't shoot people because taking life is wrong.
The serial number just puts the cops on me sooner after they draw the chalk marks and take their pictures of the corpse.the fact is.
It does not stop the act if some miscreant really needs to be "stopped".


What about a few pieces of Home depot plumbers black iron pipe; inefficient chemistry set "powder" and a hand full of nailsor pebbles for shot? Regulate that "shot gun"....
edit on 31-7-2012 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 


It's not uncommon for me to buy components when I see a good deal to hand load thousands of rounds. I probably have enough now to make a few thousand rounds of various calibers. I buy loaded ammo in bulk all the time. Price per round goes down when I do so. There are plenty of people just like me that have never committed any crime with our firearms or ammo. Why do you believe it OK to to be punished via my wallet to do so?

All this limit stuff is just another knee-jerk reaction and/or the not letting a crisis go to waste to appease people that believe it is OK to pass laws on things they have no knowledge or interest in. It's no ones business other than mine how much ammo or how many weapons I keep in my home. Now I go and do something stupid then it becomes others business. I'll wager that there are plenty of members here that have a ton of ammo and maybe a safe or two of weapons to use it in. Are every one of them some crazed nut job? Maybe they just like the idea of being prepared for some bad thing that they believe can and will occur. The humor is not lost on me that on a conspiracy site there are people that think like this would be the object of ridicule. Maybe they are just like me and really enjoy shooting and collecting guns. Either way it's their business. You believe it's just plain stupid to buy thousands of rounds of ammo. And I support your opinion and believe you have the right to not purchase it. But your rights stop there.

I have a love of old long guns. I also really get into old military rifles and carbines. I see them as works of art and are beautiful in both form and function. Some have big magazines and I own several of these mags. It's really a lot of fun to load up a few 30 round AR or AK mags and go to making them empty. It just makes sense to me to buy ammo in larger lots. It saves me money. Shipping ammo is not cheap as it is. Not only the weight (it's really heavy!) but the fees involved in shipping ammunition are high enough that anyone that orders just a box or two seems more insane to me (link for example of shipping costs).



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Oh come on now people, as a person who is pro gun control, I can see the other sides point of view of wanting to own a gun or two. But ammunition? Seriously? How can you justify needing to buy ammunition in bulk online? Also, if the ammo is just for hunting or going to the gun range, why do you care if records are kept?


It's so one doesn't have to continuously buy ammo every 2-3 days of going to the range. You do realize that some people actually go that much right? Yes is may be a hobby, or even a sport for them, but it's their personal thing that they like doing.

Now when in the future Monsanto and their GMO foods fail and over-consumption of food becomes a true issue, will you let the government regulate how much toilet paper you buy? Buy a roll of 24 or more from Costco, government comes in your house going through your fridge because you obviously plan on eating too much.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by tovenar

And the requirement that dealers keep records of all sales; isn't that lovely?


You do know that businesses are already required by law to maintain records of sales for five years? At least that's how it's done in the UK. I would assume that you have similar trade laws in the US. This is basic consumer protection. These records are kept by retailers for longer than that too.

I don't suppose you're aware that on-line retailers record your name, address, products ordered, IP address, payment method, date of order, time on site, pages visited, products viewed, regional location...

This is not new. People are trying to find any reason they can to scream about the government stealing their "rights". It is not in the constitution that you can buy ammo over the internet, in a supermarket, at your children's school...

You have the right to own weapons, but that does not automatically translate to anyone being able to buy these things anywhere they like without jumping through some hoops.

I am all for Americans owning guns (not weapons capable of murdering hundreds of people a minute, but guns intended for self defence). But I think a lot of Americans need to grow up and stop screaming about it every time the government uses some common sense.

You have the right to own guns. That does not mean the government is obliged to make it as easy for you as possible.

I would support this bill. I would also support a restriction on the types of weapons able to be bought. There is no need for an American to own a weapon capable of murdering hundreds of people in 60 seconds. No excuses for it at all.

And enough with the BS "it's so we can overthrow our government". That is an excuse that the American population have no right to use since you allowed your government to strip away your rights under the Patriot Act. You don't even protest over things and yet you claim gun ownership is about being able to fight back?

You can't fight government oppression sitting on your ass in front of the TV. American's seem to think they can as long as they have their precious guns.


Some of you European people are funny... I swear. All of these things don't stop a black market. Do you really think that because guns are illegal and ammo is illegal that people won't get shot? Do you really think that all people on a FBI blacklist do not own guns? Out of every murder committed every single day in the U.S., 80 - 90% of them are previously convicted felons or for one reason or another should not have had a gun. Furthermore, the weapons used were unregistered... that's right... the gun supposedly didn't even exist as far as U.S. records go.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
I would support this bill. I would also support a restriction on the types of weapons able to be bought. There is no need for an American to own a weapon capable of murdering hundreds of people in 60 seconds. No excuses for it at all.


By the way... there are already restrictions on the purchase of fully automatic guns. It requires approval by the ATF.


Class 3 firearms include machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, suppressors, destructive devices and Any Other Weapons (AOWs).
The tax for privately manufacturing any class 3 firearms is $200. Transferring requires a $200 tax for all class 3s except AOW’s, for which the transfer tax is $5.
To legally possess a class 3 weapon you must complete a transfer of registration within the NFA registry.
There are two ways for you to legally buy a class 3 gun. The first is by transfer after approval by ATF of a registered weapon from its lawful owner residing in the same State as the transferee. The second is by obtaining prior approval from ATF to make NFA firearms.

Read more: www.gunsandammo.com...
edit on 1-8-2012 by SilentKillah because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


Isn't it amazing how it takes them months to write any legislation unless it violates our liberties. Then they pump these bills out almost every week, effortlessly!

Yet another point proving, in my mind, that the theater shooting was a false flag for the purpose of gun control. This law is only the tip of the iceberg. The next move will be the same type of ban at gun shows, then gun stores. Or perhaps a huge tax so that only the rich can afford ammo. One way or the other, this is not the end of it.



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
You have the right to own weapons, but that does not automatically translate to anyone being able to buy these things anywhere they like without jumping through some hoops.



Originally posted by detachedindividual
You have the right to own guns. That does not mean the government is obliged to make it as easy for you as possible.


Obviously you're completely clueless when it comes to our Constiutional rights (note I said "rights", not "privileges". That's a very important point). Why do you people choose not to understand "shall not be infringed", or are you really that mentally deficient? It's been explained multiple times to you.


Originally posted by detachedindividual
But I think a lot of Americans need to grow up and stop screaming about it every time the government uses some common sense.


We should stop defending our Constitutional rights when you don't agree with them? Why exactly?


Originally posted by detachedindividual
And enough with the BS "it's so we can overthrow our government". That is an excuse that the American population have no right to use since you allowed your government to strip away your rights under the Patriot Act. You don't even protest over things and yet you claim gun ownership is about being able to fight back?


I wasn't aware that you had a magic mirror to see what we are and are not protesting against. No one said anything about overthrowing our government, just keeping them in line. The founding fathers were extremely knowledgeable about law, and thus were also extremely careful about every word they wrote. The Second Amendment has a very specifc reason for being there, whether you approve or not.






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