Hasan Not Charged With 14th Ft. Hood Murder , page 1


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Topic started on 30-7-2012 @ 03:11 PM by jibeho
That's correct! Nidal Hasan is not being charged for the murder of the 14th victim of his insane killing spree. Why??? Because the 14th victim was an unborn baby!! That's why. Just amazing and even more amazing is the utter disregard for the existing LAW that was passed in 2004.

He is not charging Nidal Hasan, the accused Fort Hood killer, with violation of the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (UVVA). This law was passed and signed in 2004. After the highly publicized conviction of Scott Peterson in California for the murder of his wife and her unborn child, the law was named the Laci and Conner Peterson Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

There would seem to be no possibility of controversy in charging Hasan with violating UVVA. After all, it is indisputable that one of those killed was pregnant at the time of her death. Nor did the mother, Army Private Francheska Velez, contemplate an abortion. There would be no question of her exercising "choice" in this matter. In fact, her last words, most poignantly reported, were: "My baby! my baby!"

It was for just such heinous crimes that the UVVA was passed. It covers only those instances where a crime of violence is committed on federal property, or where other crimes covered by the federal code are being committed.


Why this injustice for this unborn baby?

So, it is a law incorporated into the U.S. Code and most significantly in this case, it is applied to the military by including it in the UCMJ. Hasan was assigned to Fort Hood. So were all those who died. There could be no question of UVVA not applying in this case.


We need answers!! Why is Obama's DOJ not charging Hasan for this murder? Perhaps Holder can reply...

Are they tip toeing around the legal rights of a child in the womb? Guess they don't want to open that door before and election

cnsnews.com...
edit on 30-7-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 04:44 PM by jibeho
reply to post by Murad


This is a homicide case and according to the law... take note of sub section B

Whoever engages in conduct that violates any of the
provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the
death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child,
who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty
of a separate offense under this section.
‘‘(2)(A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the
punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment
provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or
death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
‘‘(B) An offense under this section does not require proof that—
‘‘(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge
or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying
offense was pregnant; or
‘‘(ii) the defendant intended to cause the death of, or bodily
injury to, the unborn child.
‘‘(C) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally
kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead
of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided
under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally
killing or attempting to kill a human being.


This is the law

www.gpo.gov...


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 04:46 PM by jibeho
reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Most think that is the reason why Hasan is not being charged. They don't want to open the door despite what the law says. IMO They are ignoring the law in favor of politics in a tough 2012 race.

It must be nice for the DOJ to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore. DOJ has some splanin' to do in regards to Hasan's case. I would like to hear their rationale...


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 04:51 PM by The Old American
reply to post by jibeho


Abortion isn't considered murder, so why should this?

Sickening.

/TOA


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 05:05 PM by Indigo5
reply to post by jibeho


CSN is not news...It is an idealogical tabloid.

They are arguing that President Obama did not charge Hassan under ...


Now, I want to focus on something Mr. Obama is not doing. He is not charging Nidal Hasan, the accused Fort Hood killer, with violation of the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (UVVA).

...

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212)



First off...Obama???...REALLY...HE DECIDES CHARGES??? NOT A PROSECUTOR???

Secondly...
HASSAN WAS CHARGED UNDER...


Hasan has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice; he may face additional charges at court-martial. If he is convicted, he could be given the death penalty


edit on 30-7-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 10:33 PM by 2manyquestions
Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
If I might hazard a guess? Wouldn't charging him with the murder of an unborn also cross lines into the whole abortion and fetus debate? As I understand it, that has been the main issue to get beyond in other states trying to pass laws for the deliberate attack on a mother and killing of the fetus.

Now that doesn't mitigate a thing, however..there is this. He still has enough under the UCMJ to end his life in every way that matters. I'd have liked to see every last victim charged for the sake of being complete and giving each life a balance to it's being taken, but it's not like this saves him or makes any difference at all in the end, right? I'm not missing something crucial about the UCMJ and how it handles all this, am I?


I think it's the principle of the thing, not so much whether or not he spends an extra 50 years in prison. He will obviously die in prison, but the point here is that the judge apparently didn't take the unborn baby into consideration as an individual who's life came to a violent end.

Yes, there is the debate about abortion. Is abortion murder? In my opinion technically it is... because you are taking a life no matter how big or small it is. While the mother should be able to decide whether or not she wants to have the baby UP TO A POINT (there's a whole new 100 page discussion there), if that unborn fetus is wanted by the parents and its life is taken against their will by anyone else, it is pure and simple murder that should be punished.

So again, it's not about whether or not Hassan spends extra years in prison, the outrage is more about the judge not seeking justice for the unborn child. It's complicated, but obviously if you plan to give birth and your daughter or son is killed by an outsider while still in the womb, you're going to feel slighted, aren't you? That son or daughter is unborn, but clearly you already think of them as an individual with a name and a future. If a judge told you it's not considered murder, how would you feel? You've just lost your child. Am I wrong?
edit on 30-7-2012 by 2manyquestions because: (no reason given)


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 11:03 PM by sonnny1
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Well, I know I would be highly upset, if my wife, was murdered, along with our unborn child.........and the killer, was only charged for my wife's killing. There is NO JUSTICE, good enough, for what this man did.

Just saying.......


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 11:11 PM by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by sonnny1


So, would it change anything in reality? Like, is Hasan ever going to see freedom again? And would that other charge postpone or prevent that?

I understand what you are saying about "justice" and all that....but justice is done when he is put in prison and has freedom removed (if that is what will be called "justice" in this world). I, personally, do not think justice is done on a personal, one on one thing. If you want that, go to civil court. Criminal court is about justice for "the people". That is, all of us. The charge is brought by "the people", not by each of the victims individually. "The People", being represented by "The State", sought justice for a crime. And it was had.

It is just a difference of perspective. As long as the person who did it went to jail for doing it, even if they didn't pile on one more additional charge, I wouldn't be upset. He is locked up.


This seems more like pro-life argument by proxy to me. If you allow that this wasn't charged, then you give a fraction of an inch in the abortion fight....so the fight is on. Not like it matters to me. Just making some social commentary here.


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 11:17 PM by charles1952
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Just a small question, without tricks. Because of the possible spillover nto the abortion debate, do you think that the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (a copy of which can be found above) is unconstitutional, or shouldn't be enforced, or was wrong in the first place?


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 11:22 PM by sonnny1
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Star for ya, BFT...............

To some extent, I can agree with you. To the victims Family, I would think not though........You cant bring back the victims, and you cant even fathom to think, what a loss it is, for the Family, and her unborn Child....

In Perspective.....


"This girl was full of life. She was a happy girl, and he took her from us," Pvt. Velez's cousin, Sandy Rivera said. "She was supposed to have the baby, and everything was going to be happy. We were all waiting. It's not fair."
The last time family members saw her in Chicago was in August to celebrate her 21 birthday. Her cousin, Melissa Morton, said she was the last family member to speak with her on Thursday morning before the massacre in Texas.
"Why? Did she suffer? Did she go fast? Did they try to protect her. She was pregnant. It's harder to know she was pregnant carrying a child," said Morton.

And yes, It ripe for Agenda, but also raw, that its still an injustice, regardless.......


reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 11:24 PM by bigfatfurrytexan
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Just a small question, without tricks. Because of the possible spillover nto the abortion debate, do you think that the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (a copy of which can be found above) is unconstitutional, or shouldn't be enforced, or was wrong in the first place?


I would have to review the act to tell you an answer to that question. So, since i am about to nod off right now, i will give you this answer instead (which is close to an answer to your question):

I don't like abortion. I think it is reprehensible. Since it exists, i ignore it and do what i can to keep my own family from participating. Similarly, I detest murder. If an unborn child is killed in a murder, I think that is obviously worse than just a murder. Now,, is that two murders? i would not think so, otherwise abortion would be classified as murder.

Therefore, I would think killing an unborn child in the act of committing a murder would be a separate type of charge.

But above all of that, I am a realist. I am practical. I see that Hasan will never breath free air again, and that is good enough. Were i any level of related to a victim in this, i would feel that is good enough. To worry about what charges got piled on is just a matter of semantics. The guy is gone. Forever. Having my unborn childs name read in court on a victims list won't change that he is gone forever, nor will it bring him/her back.

I also see the idea of "closure" as an illusion used as a crutch for a coping mechanism.

I may not have expressed myself adequately, and it know i was kind of blunt. My apologies in advance if it causes offense. I have no callous intentions here, only an observation (that seems to not be so popular).
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