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GOP Poverty Creators Plan to Increase Taxes on 22.9 Million Poor and Middle Class Families

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posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


Nope because there is only there are less than 150 million in the work force according to usdebtclock with is 50 percent of 310 million.

So 150 million paying for over 150 receiving government benefits but wait of that 150 not all of them are paying income taxes.




posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by grey580
 


Nope because there is only there are less than 150 million in the work force according to usdebtclock with is 50 percent of 310 million.

So 150 million paying for over 150 receiving government benefits but wait of that 150 not all of them are paying income taxes.


I see where you're going.
And to be honest I'm not for welfare. I do think that we need some social services in place. However welfare shouldn't be forever. It should be for retraining or schooling. Everyone that can work should be working.

But I think that when dealing with these sorts of things we need to have our numbers right.
of the 150 million are 100% of them on some sort of government assistance?
That doesn't make sense. Some 60million are under 14. are all of those kids on some sort of assistance?

You understand what I'm getting at?



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


you rock.

excellent (kapow) posts.....

Thanks for the insight into the inaccuracy of statistics and shedding light onto the practices used when quoting numbers by "news" organizations like fox with O´reily(Jerk) and co, MSNBC......

MSM throws numbers around and we take it as fact because somehow by it being numerical it all of a sudden disconnects us from the reality of the situation.

We should be hesitant to take ANY information from places like fox or statistical annalists unless we know who paid for the study and whether or not they WANTED it to reflect certain information with the specific purpose of using it on the news, or in a debate for legislation.

Most people don't do this. I don't double check everything half the time and I know better.

Nice. Good on you for knowing better.

Again......you rock.
edit on 30-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 




If you use those who are supported by Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF)--best described as a federal largess to indigent families with dependent children--as stated by the Dept. of Health the data suggests 1.7% of the total population that derive over 50% of their income from Welfare supports.

The number stated that receive any portion of their support from from welfare assistance--including food stamps--it is 29,900,000 or roughly 8% of the total population in the United States.

This breaks down to:

39% white 11,661,000 of 29,900,000 recipients

38% black 11,362,000 of 29,900,000

17% Hispanic 5,083,000 of 29,900,000


Read more: wiki.answers.com...



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 



NO ONE hires ANYONE when they are simply given more money...THEY HIRE folks when there is demand for thier products and they need to expand. The middle class needs to be healthy in order for Demand/consumption to rise.


Canada spends more during recessions to keep the economy going and purchasing power, and we have a stronger economy.

You're correct, you never cut the income of the middle and lower group if you want businesses to flourish or if you want abundance not scarsity.

Scarsity is run for CONTROL, not for economic wellbeing, and the extreme right doesnt seem to really care too much about the average business's well being, in mind either, for they consider everyone but the top elite fodder. (I'm not even going to get into the two tiered party in the US because I don't see the liberals there as very liberal either.)

The best economies would not have trickle down, and would not have monopolies and millions of bylaws in ever single town prohibiting home businesses and make all businesses so very hard to get off the ground, but would actually fund ample competition and business start ups everywhere, and have mentorship programs, grants not just loans, and very low interest reduced loans, programs of all sorts to get as many people going in a healthy free enterprise way, (hopefully with emphasis on clean technology, and ethics for a change), and this would create enormous wealth and good taxes for all sorts of programs for citizens.

That is what it takes, and its not done, their programs for businesses even in Canada, are very faulty. They seem more to make work for the professionals running them, though there are a few that have benefitted. I know some who were in them, and it wasn't what I'm talking about.

By the way, small businesses employ more people than large.

Edit to add, one way to do business grants and programs to keep the funds high and going is to work with them to success, and then to have payments, relatively low, comparative to the business and income, that would pay back into the program with a small amount of interest. But only for the successful ones who make it to middle class for their family size, and manageble amounts.
edit on 30-7-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Those 50 million people on assistance are spending the money that they receive, thus creating jobs and stimulating the economy - not to mention the amount of government workers it takes to run those programs.

Don't even bother replying to me, as in all the years i've lurked here and read your posts it's blantently clear that you do nothing but vomit the narcissistic ignorant kool-aid, that's spoon-fed to you on these issues.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


So what the hell does race have to do with anything?

Just had to bring that in to a conversation about poverty and wiki answers is an acceptable source?

According to this sitewww.usatoday.com... back on 2009 which is 4 years old.

IF people want to play the semantic game and play their words social security.Medicare.medicaid, and all the other freebies are welfare.

Since people are only paying 6% into their SS accounts,the employers match that and the beneficary receives far more than they ever paid in to it is welfare of course there are those who have paid in to it we can talk about those who get SS who have never worked a day in their lives.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Evil_Santa
reply to post by neo96
 


Those 50 million people on assistance are spending the money that they receive, thus creating jobs and stimulating the economy - not to mention the amount of government workers it takes to run those programs.

Don't even bother replying to me, as in all the years i've lurked here and read your posts it's blantently clear that you do nothing but vomit the narcissistic ignorant kool-aid, that's spoon-fed to you on these issues.


No they don't, and so much for an adult conversation on this topic.

So let's get this straight getting paid by the tax revenue of others who don't pay tax on food and supposedly creates jobs meaning government jobs which means is still taking from those who do pay income tax.

A government employee is not a private sector job from where new wealth is introduced to pay for that welfare.

Love the personal snip who are the ignorant ones?

welfare creates jobs yeah heard Pelosi say the same thing doesn't make it true.
edit on 30-7-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Originally posted by neo96


So what the hell does race have to do with anything?

Just had to bring that in to a conversation about poverty and wiki answers is an acceptable source?




Went straight for the deflection.

The point of the data is that only 8% of the country gets any welfare at all, and only 1.7% get more than half their income from welfare.

This is a far cry from the 'nearly half of the adult workforce' you guys have been claiming are dependent on welfare.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


How does one figure wiki answers?

that said 29 million people but according to usdebtclock a site that the left bashed bush over for the last decade is not good enough then followed that up by the USA today another site that the left used to bash bush over the head with.

Percentages are meaningless as the real number have shown.

70 million on ss and medicare which is welfare that same 70 is getting a double shot of welfare via medicare then 50 million on medicaid.

The largest retirement and insurance provider is the US Federal government who is dependent upon that income from that minority of 3-5 million.

All can be labeled welfare all who are receiving more cash than they are paying in.
edit on 30-7-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Here's a pdf on subsidy spending

www.cato.org...



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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interesting

I know it's a bit old. but it does shed some light on things.


These figures cover only the federal income tax and ignore the substantial amounts of other federal taxes — especially the payroll tax — that many of these households pay. As a result, these figures greatly overstate the share of households that do not pay federal taxes. Tax Policy Center data show that only about 17 percent of households did not pay any federal income tax or payroll tax in 2009, despite the high unemployment and temporary tax cuts that marked that year.[5] In 2007, a more typical year, the figure was 14 percent. This percentage would be even lower if it reflected other federal taxes that households pay, including excise taxes on gasoline and other items.



Moreover, even these figures greatly understatelow-income households’ totaltax burden because these households also pay substantial state and local taxes. Data from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy show that the poorest fifth of households paid a stunning 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2011.[7]

edit on 30-7-2012 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Kaploink
I really don't understand how killing demand by increasing taxes on the middle class will help our economy. The wealthy will never create new jobs if they don't see demand for their products. Nothing will ever trickle down. The middle class spending is the fuel for our economy.


Think foreign markets. We already have cars, tvs, computers, couches, you name it and we have it. We do replace things when required, and if we have disposable income we buy stuff even when it isn't required.

However, we can't compete for shopping sprees with the rapidly developing nations whose population does not yet have all of these consumer goods. The business owners care much more about those people, then they do about us. As salaries rise for them, they will buy stuff. We will trudge along and try not to let our standard of living fall too far.

The elite don't care about us. They figure they don't really need us.
Globalism is not good for the average U.S. (or western in general) Joe.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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The top ten percent of earners in the US pay almost all of the taxes in the US.

The middle class and poor don't pay any taxes.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by MRuss
The top ten percent of earners in the US pay almost all of the taxes in the US.

The middle class and poor don't pay any taxes.




"I'm going to not read any of the thread, then chime in with a completely asinine claim that's already been debunked multiple times in the thread I'm replying to."



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by MRuss
The top ten percent of earners in the US pay almost all of the taxes in the US.

The middle class and poor don't pay any taxes.


I do not qualify as rich. By any of the three major definitions socioeconomic class I am part of the middle. I pay taxes.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by neo96

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
reply to post by neo96
 


Those 50 million people on assistance are spending the money that they receive, thus creating jobs and stimulating the economy - not to mention the amount of government workers it takes to run those programs.

Don't even bother replying to me, as in all the years i've lurked here and read your posts it's blantently clear that you do nothing but vomit the narcissistic ignorant kool-aid, that's spoon-fed to you on these issues.


No they don't, and so much for an adult conversation on this topic.

So let's get this straight getting paid by the tax revenue of others who don't pay tax on food and supposedly creates jobs meaning government jobs which means is still taking from those who do pay income tax.

A government employee is not a private sector job from where new wealth is introduced to pay for that welfare.

Love the personal snip who are the ignorant ones?

welfare creates jobs yeah heard Pelosi say the same thing doesn't make it true.
edit on 30-7-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here but it sounds like you are implying that government employees are basically on welfare because they get paid in tax dollars but don't generate wealth? So Marines are welfare babies?



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


F&S for the OP Grey!

The GOP has, (with the help of the modern day Tea Party) transitioned itself into a political force who's sole mission seems to be the absolute destruction of what's left of the american middle class while idolizing the elite as job "Creators" who really shouldn't be taxed at all. What an absolute joke they have become!

You want to know what's wrong with America? The TP/GOP, that's what!



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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One party can't ruin the nation on their own.
It took both parties to destroy this nation.

Thanks Republicans and Democrats for ruining the best nation on Earth.
It's 100% your faults for thinking you could control everything and tell everyone how to live their lives and coveting their paychecks.

Good work. Now the elites can come in and take it all over for pennies on the dollar.

Yes...that is a toilet flush I hear.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by MRuss
The top ten percent of earners in the US pay almost all of the taxes in the US.

The middle class and poor don't pay any taxes.


This is not true at all.

If you have a job you pay payroll tax.
If you smoke you pay tax.
if you drink you pay tax.
if you purchase gas you pay tax.

In states with a sales tax. You pay tax on every purchase.
There is a cellphone tax that's different by state.



Here are the top 10 highest cellphone taxing states, with their combined average federal, state and local cell phone tax rates:
Nebraska, 23.69%
Washington, 23%
New York, 22.83%
Florida, 21.62%
Illinois, 20.90%
Rhode Island, 19.67%
Missouri, 19.28%
Pennsylvania, 19.13%
Kansas, 18.39%
Texas, 17.48%


And that's a fact!
edit on 30-7-2012 by grey580 because: (no reason given)




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