EMP effects and solutions

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posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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First, however, because it is a point of so much confusion, it is important to point out that there is no known mechanism by which a solar storm would destroy an automobile, except for making fuel unavailable due to loss of the power grid. Even the most massive solar storms are not known to contain the fast E1 component, which is the part of a nuclear EMP that can destroy items that are not connected to extremely long lines.
Astronomical gamma ray bursts that produce an huge E1 component have occurred during the history of the Earth, but the extreme rarity of a damaging gamma ray burst means that it is much less likely than an asteroid strike. Also, the stars in this part of the galaxy have settled into their relatively tranquil middle age; and damaging gamma ray bursts are even less likely to occur today than in our planet's prehistoric past. The only direct EMP dangers to automobiles results from nuclear EMP (and from non-nuclear EMP weapons of very limited range).
The question of EMP damage to automobiles is so complex that it cannot be answered definitely for the reasons discussed below. The one thing that does have a broad level of agreement among those who have studied the matter is that obtaining fuel after any kind of electromagnetic disaster would be a matter of extreme difficulty. Any particular vehicle may or may not run, until it runs out of fuel; then it will not run any longer until the fuel production and distribution system can be re-started.
Any statement concerning the effect of nuclear EMP on vehicles would depend upon details such as how your vehicle is oriented (in other words, which direction it is facing) with respect to the nuclear detonation. It would also depend upon the height of the detonation, the gamma ray output of the detonation, the distance and azimuth to the detonation, and the local strength of the Earth's magnetic field between your location and the detonation point.
It would also depend upon whether your car is parked outdoors, in a concrete garage, or in a metal garage. Obviously a metal garage is best, but concrete is somewhat conductive and will provide a little bit of protection compared to outdoors.

source



The realistic threat of an Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) or High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) event – natural or man-made has been widely recognized by several government related agencies such as the U.S. Congressional EMP Commission, the Defense Nuclear Agency or the Defense Threat Reduction Agency. Potential long-term disruptive effects on our society have also been acknowledged and protective and counter measures are being increasingly implemented. While most hardening efforts focus on mission critical electronics, mainly meaning C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Computer, and Intelligence) systems, protecting continuous mobility has attracted heightened attention as well.

source

Here's two fairly robust articles that I found ont he effects of EMP and how to protect against it. It even has diagrams showing what is where. It looks like any older carbureted vehicle would be the easiest to EMP shield.

Have any of you actually done this stuff? Anyone have a metal garage?




posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by AnarchysAngel
 


You can get most of the information that is public available in this document.

EP 1110-3-2

Just remember, and you will see it in the document I linked too, the doors of your garage will have to have EMI-shields all round, that makes good contact when it is closed, and all windows will have to be screened to.

edit on 30/7/2012 by Hellhound604 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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I built 2 large custom aluminum Faraday boxes to protect my backup Amateur Radio transmitters in the event that there is some type of high altitude EMP detonation over North America. What I built *IS* overkill as I have access to a machine shop and metal fabrication company, however the 2 boxes are waterproof, built from aluminum angle and 1/8" aluminum sheeting and can float. My backup radio's and other electronic equipment are stored inside the box wrapped in large anti-static bags (similar to the bags protecting new computer equipment like motherboards).



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Vehicles are insulated by their rubber tires.

EMP effecting vehicles is a myth.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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www.survivalblog.com...

The worst thing about nuclear EMP and motor vehicles is if you happen to be driving in heavy traffic when it happens. In this event, simultaneously, a certain percentage of vehicles will stop running (perhaps temporarily), many more drivers will be instantly distracted by strange electrical behavior happening inside of the car, and the traffic lights will abruptly go out or go into a flashing mode. This instantly creates the worst traffic jam in history in certain localities, and vehicular accidents at some busy intersections are likely to be severe or fatal. If you have an working motor vehicle in a post-EMP situation, there may not be any clear roads to drive on.
www.futurescience.com...

edit on 30-7-2012 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


Thats why you own a heavy duty ORV with a lift kit...a good pick up would do the trick, just make sure you have a secondary gas tank on it. And dont forget a good brush/push bumper and reinforced frame.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


Really?

www.youtube.com...

It's not the vehicle, it's the little pieces of it like the solenoids and fuses.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by mkmasn
reply to post by nightbringr
 


Really?

www.youtube.com...

It's not the vehicle, it's the little pieces of it like the solenoids and fuses.

Really.

www.survival-homestead.com...

Google it. You will find many links showing that EMP effecting vehicles to be a myth. The rubber tires insulate the vehicle from the ground, effectively creating its own faraday cage.
edit on 31-7-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


If that were the case, why is our military so concerned? Why has it been proven several times that card those that are running at the time are at higher risk?

I'm not sure I trust that drastic a change in thinking.

The rubber tires do nothing to insulate the spark plug wires from feeding into the ignition system.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by AnarchysAngel
reply to post by nightbringr
 


If that were the case, why is our military so concerned? Why has it been proven several times that card those that are running at the time are at higher risk?

I'm not sure I trust that drastic a change in thinking.

The rubber tires do nothing to insulate the spark plug wires from feeding into the ignition system.

I dont think your grasping the concept.

The EMP requires a ground. Your car, insulated by rubber tires prevents the EMP signal from running through the car and into the ground. Without that, it does nothing to your coil, plugs, or anything else. Its the same as lightning strikes, which cars have been proven to be resistant to. Rubber is an excelent insulator.

Still dont believe me? Have a look at these other links:

www.ehow.com...

www.lifeskillsinternational.com...

www.survivalblog.com...

www.aussurvivalist.com...

I could paste these forever. I encourage you to do a simple google on the subject. Its a myth, plain and simple. The odd car will stall, but it will start again after.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by mkmasn
reply to post by nightbringr
 


Really?

www.youtube.com...

It's not the vehicle, it's the little pieces of it like the solenoids and fuses.

Really.

www.survival-homestead.com...

Google it. You will find many links showing that EMP effecting vehicles to be a myth. The rubber tires insulate the vehicle from the ground, effectively creating its own faraday cage.
edit on 31-7-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)


I did google it. And half the survival blogs had no citations or references. The video is from a well respected tv show.

My point was, there are things in your vehicle which need to operate properly for the vehicle to run which are not ground. Those are the things which are going to make your car cease to function.

If you watch the video you'll see most things running directly from the battery still work because the battery has a ground. The vehicle, however, does not drive. I wonder why.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by mkmasn
I did google it. And half the survival blogs had no citations or references. The video is from a well respected tv show.

My point was, there are things in your vehicle which need to operate properly for the vehicle to run which are not ground. Those are the things which are going to make your car cease to function.

If you watch the video you'll see most things running directly from the battery still work because the battery has a ground. The vehicle, however, does not drive. I wonder why.

I watched the Youtube video at work without sound.

They tested one car. Hardly conclusive. And unless im mistaken, the car stopped, but was able to start again? Funny thing is, if you read the first link in the OP clearly shows that most cars tested were not adversely effected by EMP, and most that were only required a quick re-start.

Thats what happened in 90%+ of the DoD testing on vehicles. The ones that are effected and stall are simply started again with a turn of the key. So yes, while it can disable your car, it is more often than not very temporary. And if its caused by the bomb, id worry a lot more about what is striking me seconds after the initial flash in the sky.

The effect to civilian infrastructure however cannot be understated. You WILL be able to drive most cars after, but you will not be able to find fuel, surf the net, light your house, and so much more.
edit on 31-7-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


I suggest you watch again.

The starter was fried. The battery and the things which use ONLY battery power worked, but the car did not restart.

I worked on a military installation with a huge wooden structure designed specifically to operate after an emp.
www.thelivingmoon.com...

There's a reason why the military invests in these things, having unlimited resources to research stuff like this, as opposed to some survivalists.

Not taking anything away from them, but I've seen more than enough to be convinced an emp will stop a car.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by mkmasn
reply to post by nightbringr
 


I suggest you watch again.

The starter was fried. The battery and the things which use ONLY battery power worked, but the car did not restart.

I worked on a military installation with a huge wooden structure designed specifically to operate after an emp.
www.thelivingmoon.com...

There's a reason why the military invests in these things, having unlimited resources to research stuff like this, as opposed to some survivalists.

Not taking anything away from them, but I've seen more than enough to be convinced an emp will stop a car.

All fair, but im not putting much stock into a youtube video showing one car being EMP'd. Probably would have been pretty anti-climatic if it didnt stop. Wonder if they took more than one take?

As i said, i watched it without sound, but ive read many articles on this matter as well, and the general consensus seems to be that most cars, even if damaged, will re-start almost immediately.
edit on 31-7-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr

The EMP requires a ground.

Incorrect.

An EMP is a burst of magnetic field strength which induces a high voltage in any conductor cut by the magnetic field lines. It doesn't matter if it has a 'ground' or not, as the induced voltages are relative to the field and not the earth. The only reason the earth is referred to as a 'ground' is because it is used as a sink for electrical power distribution.

Aluminum does nothing to stop an EMP, btw. Steel will work, but the shielding must be ferromagnetic; aluminum is diamagnetic.

A car with a steel body is a Faraday cage. The trunk is an even better one, and if you really want protection, cover the front of the trunk compartment with sheet steel. Steel readily redirects magnetic and electric fields around the enclosure, so it effectively shields whatever is inside from the effects of the diverted fields.


I could paste these forever.

And doing so will not cause EMPs to become dependent on the earth ground plane. Sorry.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

Thank you for the correction!

I still stand by my assertation that most testing has shown that cars withstand EMP surprisingly well. Read the first link in the OP or do some internet searches. Most vehicles are restartable. Perhaps as you mention because
Of the Faraday effect the body causes. The thing im not understanding is that Faraday cages require a ground. The body of a car is not grounded again due to the rubber tires. Im n
ot sure this theory is correct.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr

Yes, car bodies make a decent Faraday cage, but no, Faraday cages do not have to be grounded to function. They should be grounded if you want to touch them; otherwise they can deliver a hefty electrostatic shock, but that doesn't mean they will not shunt any electromagnetic fields without the ground.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by mkmasn
reply to post by nightbringr
 


Really?

www.youtube.com...

It's not the vehicle, it's the little pieces of it like the solenoids and fuses.

Really.

www.survival-homestead.com...

Google it. You will find many links showing that EMP effecting vehicles to be a myth. The rubber tires insulate the vehicle from the ground, effectively creating its own faraday cage.
edit on 31-7-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)


Just wanted to point out, from the website you listed:


Overall it appears that your best bet for ensuring you have an operating vehicle after a high-altitude EMP burst is to have an older diesel car or truck. Make sure it’s sitting on good rubber tires and not parked next to a metal building.


Because


It is important that you understand that the insulating effect of the rubber tires is not 100% effective for EMP shielding. A fiberglass body or being parked too close to a large metal expanse (next to a metal wall, for example) will make a vehicle more susceptible to EMP. Also, as almost all new cars are heavily computerized and filled with IC circuits, the newer the car the more likely that it will be “out of commission” following an EMP weapon burst.


From Futurescience.com:


In the old Dark Angel television series, an EMP attack is supposed to have occurred on June 1, 2009, and the vehicles appear to be mostly pre-1980 and post-2009 models.  There is a good reason for this.  Many conventional gasoline vehicles produced since around 1980 may not function after an EMP attack due to their dependence upon electronics.  This would obviously produce a huge problem for the United States after an EMP attack.  Merely moving disabled vehicles off the road would be a major undertaking.  Disabled traffic lights would add to the traffic problems.


With the cash for clunkers programs and the incentives most dealerships give, I'd be willing to bet the majority of vehicles on the road, in the US, at least, are newer than 1980, and are equipped with some sort of computer system.

Wikipedia verifies that:


Age of vehicles in operation
In the year 2001, the National Automobile Dealers Association conducted a study revealing the average age of vehicles in operation in the US. The study found that of vehicles in operation in the US, 38.3% were older than ten years, 22.3% were between seven and ten years old, 25.8% were between three and six years old and 13.5% were less than two years old. According to this study the majority of vehicles, 60.6%, of vehicles were older than seven years in 2001.[6] This relatively high age of automobiles in the US might be explained by unaffordable prices for comparable new replacement vehicles and a corresponding gradual decline in sales figures since 1998.[7] Also, many Americans own three or more vehicles. The low marginal cost of registering and insuring additional older vehicles means many vehicles that are rarely used are still given full weight in the statistics.
en.wikipedia.org...


Later on the Futurescience.com:


The U.S. EMP Commission tested a number of cars and trucks.  Although this was the most comprehensive set of tests on vehicles that has been done, those tests were very poorly done because the Commission was financially responsible for the vehicles, but did not have the funding to pay for any of the vehicles they tested.  The vehicles were borrowed from other government agencies, most vehicles from the Department of Defense; and they had to be returned to those lending agencies in good condition.


It even says those tests the DoD performed were not thorough. Not only that, they probably used military grade vehicles for the tests, considering the whole scope of the the DoD is the military, although that's purely speculation on my part.
edit on 1-8-2012 by mkmasn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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one thing that you must also keep in mind in thinking of your car as a Faraday cage....
The windows can and will act as an opening for any RF frequency higher than 4xthe size of the window, so, say your front window is 1.4m wide, it means, it will be an efficient window for any RF frequency with a wavelength shorter than 1.4mx4=5,6m. That converts into a frequency of 200MHz. So, for any EMP with RF components higher than 200MHz, the insides of your car will be totally transparent. To get rid of that, you will have to have either metalized windows, or a wire mesh inside the windows that is very well bonded to your car's body.

Of course, that only applies to the EM-field. The magnetic fields are something different. You will also have to content with content with gamma and x-rays, depending on the source of your EMP. During tests I have seen the actual effects of EMP on cars. Of course, those effects diminish with the square of the distance from the EMP source, but if it is a nuclear weapon, with associated gamma rays, Compton effect, etc, you have a whole set of additional problems, but then, if you are close enough for those effects, the chances that you will survive is small.

The bottom line is. There are different ways of producing EMP's. From atmospheric nuclear detonations, to different explosive means (explosive pumped flux generators) to different microwave generators. Each EMP type have different characteristics, and it is almost impossible to protect equipment at an affordable cost for all possibilities. Just because your car is a Faraday cage, it would only protect you against a specific (very limited type of EMP.), to protect the electronics in your car against HEMP you need to have screening inside your windows, etc, etc, etc. The onliest car that will almost be EMP-proof, is an old diesel car, no electronics. One that just needs the battery to turn the starter motor. Just remember, that your car's alternator can blow too, it uses electronics for the regulator. (There are ways to protect those things, it all just depends on the amount of money you have to spend).

you can view lightning as a very specific type of EMP. The characteristics are well definded, and just because you are safe in a car for a lightning strike, does not mean you are safe during other types of EMP. If you look at waveforms of the risetime, duration and decay of different types of EMP, you will see that superficially they look the same, but the devil is in the details, like the risetime, the decay time, etc.... But believe me, it is possible to protect against it all (except for the gamma rays), but at a huge cost. I had to design (or EMP-proof various critical stuff from EMP), and believe me when I tell you that in most of those instances, the cost of making electronic stuff EMP-proof (and by that I mean, the stuff is on, and running, without resets during the EMP-event) is horrendous, in many cases far exceeding the cost of the equipment itself.

Think of it this way, you have a US$600.00 radio connected to a huge outdoor antenna, and you want to make it lightning proof. I can do it for you, but the cost to make your installation lightning-proof would cost you 10 times more. Is it worth it? Especially if there is no guarantee. It might cost you an additional US$100 to make your installation proof against 80% of different lightning scenarios, but to protect your equipment from 99% of all possible strikes, it would cost you US$6000. It would be way cheaper just to have basic lightning protection (in case of an indirect strike) and a spare radio in storage, and spare elements for the antenna, and replace the radio in a case of a severe lightning strike.
edit on 1/8/2012 by Hellhound604 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Hellhound604
The onliest car that will almost be EMP-proof, is an old diesel car, no electronics. One that just needs the battery to turn the starter motor.

I would think a better solution would be a hand-cranked or push start diesel. After all, the starter motor has electrical windings inside.

Of course, with the compression on diesels, im sure this is easier said than done, but as an earlier poster pointed out, the starter was fried in an EMP experiment by the FutureWeapons people.



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