It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

If You're Poor, You Didn't Get There On Your Own. Government Helped You Get There...

page: 8
106
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 02:53 AM
link   
reply to post by The Old American
 


It figures your old and from Texas and probably don't know the truth nor care to!
Lets all blame those with the least because it's their falt that the country is in such a predicament!
After all it was their fault to dream about having a home, food, shelter and a decent job! They should have cut thier wrists so as not to stress an already over crowded job market when their jobs were shipped over seas and so they were forced to subsidize their income with food stamps and medicaid!
Though i don't support Obama, he is right about one thing, most businesses were built on the backs of the workers and though it was the entrepreneur that risked, it was the workers whom slaved! These businesses paid these workers back by firing them and shipping their jobs over seas! Today only those that are just starting out or those that don't have enough clout in washington have to worry about risk! it seems if your company is big enough and you know enough crooked beaurocrats you to can be rewarded for failure!
I really don't get how the poor are blamed for something that was caused by too big and corrupt central government, too big to fail banks, monopolized international corporations and keeping the petro dollar so these corporations don't have to pay large shipping costs so they can pay slave labor rates in foreign lands!
I really hope that you people start waking up to reality becuase you too can soon be jobless homeless and
looking for government handouts to silence the aching hunger and health pains!
I would like to state that I too do not believe in big government, nor do I believe in the nanny state! I believe in a mostly self sustaining nation, where everyone should have the ability to work in a living wage job, hold down a residency, have affordable healthcare and the rights we were guaranteed under the constitution!
It seems that most don't agree that we should have a right to employment, healthcare or a residency!
It seems the only rights we will soon have is the right to shut up and perrish!




posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:01 AM
link   
reply to post by NAMTERCES
 
The Government borrows the money from China because they dont know how to spend it right.Who is going to pay that back in the end? Taxpayer



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by glasshouse
reply to post by milominderbinder
 

Yeah, I guess I did completely miss that!
I still feel like I've got the more logical argument on the Govt/Business debate though.
I believe all the examples of government virtue you have provided require money.
This revenue is created by collecting taxes.
Citizens pay taxes in the form of money.
Citizens earn this money from businesses.

Stop business: government has no natural source of revenue to spend on all its projects.

Stop government: you would still see people willing to buy goods and services they want as well as the people that make it their business to sell it to them




I don't know if you know this but not 1 penny of tax dollars goes to pay for any government spending! It all goes to interest on the debt! All the monies spent by government is borrowed!
our glorious tax system is really a ponzi scheme!
The private federal reserve is a total ponzi scheme and makes Bernie Madoff look like a five and dimer!
edit on 31-7-2012 by nosacrificenofreedom because: Correction



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:14 AM
link   
reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom
 





It seems that most don't agree that we should have a right to employment, healthcare or a residency!


I don't agree they are rights. You stated above this line that it should be affordable, which i am sure we all agree on.
If you are lazy, late for work all the time, absent a lot....should you still have the right to be employed? I think not.
Most people can afford to rent something, owning a home is different, you need to earn that with saving up enough for a down payment.
Healthcare is trickier, no one really seems to want to look at why the costs are sky rocketing. Some is malpractice insurance and lack of tort reform by our government officials, some of it could be alleviated by allowing small companies to band together for discounts, removing illegal aliens from the healthcare system just to start .
There are many options the government could have done besides taking over the entire industry.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:36 AM
link   
reply to post by mugger
 


I never said that everyone has the right to a job but the jobs should be here and their not! I do not agree that most people are lazy! I think that the majority want to work as long as they are appreciated, making a living wage
and have somewhere to go besides the unemployment line! If we treat people with respect they will want to come to work! I believe Lazyness is a symptom of a much bigger issue! Now this is just my opinion but i'm usually pretty intuitive! If we keep going in the direction we are going with less high paying manufacturing jobs and more low paying jobs in the service sector what do you think the result will be once all the safety nets are eliminated? I can imagine the crime rates going way up for one! If we don't create change, change will happen on it's own and without our guidance!



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:59 AM
link   
LOL I love the spin on Obama's comment. However, the facts are we are a very wealthy country and it is the Government and their Super Wealthy Globalist Elites who are responsible for the suffering of the poor and the rest of us in this country. I am wondering if in my lifetime we will see truth and justice return to American, in which case Hell will be filled to capacity soon.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 05:53 AM
link   
The poor need to accept that their situation is a consequence , if not health related 'type' issues,
resultant of an economy which is leaving vast amounts of people without a means of earning their way out of impoverishment.

The cause of this sub optimal economy is technological( huge topic) and bureaucratic or State interference which is overcrowding the private economy and advantaging large corporations.

A economy which has the chance of meeting the needs of all has to in essence operate on Free Market principles.

Globalism which really allows big corporations to exploit environmental costs and labor costs of developing countries leads to declining employment in developed countries which then have to be sustained via
State benefits which being funded by taxes eventually cause a unproductive sub optimal economy.

The solution to The US's decline is tariffs to stop the exporting of costs abroad by corporations( mainly environmental ones) and a economy which is based on meritocratic freemarket principles.
This would create the jobs needed to breakout of the ' handout' necessity of this dysfunctional economy.

I think since things will only get worse and tax revenues fall this will be the final outcome. The reason the
day of reckoning hasn't materialized is because personal and State borrowing has enabled standards of living to remain artificially high.

edit on 31-7-2012 by Zngland because: layout all over the place

edit on 31-7-2012 by Zngland because: give up on layout



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 07:26 AM
link   
You went through a lot of thought to create a thread whos sole premise is to attack what you've misquoted.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 08:53 AM
link   
The US government is corrupt. Its not going to deal fairly with most Americans because its been designed to favor a certain segment of society. The rest of us are expendable. Paul Pantone is an American with an invention. His story is a story of suppression of information, wrongful imprisonment, and the complete disregard by the US government for whats best for its people. Our government looks out for the elites who run the corporations who make most of our laws and policies. If you can read his story without having a profound change within then I don't know what will move you. Paul is not the only one to be treated in this fashion. There have been many many more. This link is just to get you started. Dig deeper. Paul finally won his freedom but at a great cost.


www.geetfriends.net...
edit on 31-7-2012 by TRGreer because: Typo



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by The Old American


Collectivists: Not doing anything on their own since...ever.

You can only go so far with the butterfly effect until it gets ridiculous.

/TOA


You've never done anything on your own either. That's the whole point.

You can call me a collectivist all you want. You're typing on a computer that you (most likely) had no means to create yourself. You were educated by somebody at some point. You drive on public roads and walk on public sidewalks.

You wouldn't be speaking a language right now if it wasn't for 'collectivism'. 'Collectivism' is the reason human beings stopped picking fruit and started hunting in groups. 'Collectivism' is the reason we built cities, and governments. The founding fathers were 'collectivists'.



As I said, the butterfly effect goes only so far before it becomes ridiculous. I just took a drink of root beer. I didn't do that on my own because someone made the root beer, someone else made the can, the Federal Reserve created the money to buy it, Isuzu made the car to go to the store, Firestone made the tires, the government paved the road, a builder built the grocery store...

Does your ludicrousness know no bounds?

/TOA



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:09 AM
link   
reply to post by spinalremain
 


Was that directed at me and, if so, whom did I misquote? I took Obama's speech as written and changed the words to say what I believe his administration means. That if you're successful, you're not doing enough to keep the poor impoverished.

/TOA



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:10 AM
link   
reply to post by TRGreer
 


I can believe it. The govt does a fine job of destroying and suppressing "normal" creativity, too. I came to that conclusion this morning. I realized that my creative process and even my art has suffered because I have to worry about money, if I will HAVE money, or have it simply taken away, Will we be able to feed ourselves, and gawd help me- POLITICS.

I have no time for much else after constant worry and trying to keep heads above water.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:12 AM
link   
reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom
 


I'd suggest you get some help reading my post...maybe the whole thread. I'm not blaming the poor for being poor, genius. My post is that government doesn't do anything to help the poor to get out of that situation.

Holy eff, can't people read anymore? Satire is dead, long live ignorance!

/TOA



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:19 AM
link   
reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom
 


Yeah, I figured someone would bring that up! That's why I attempted to include the caveat "natural" sources of revenue, as opposed to artificial ie printing and borrowing money. I still think it's safe to say that without servicing the government's debt, with money earned from businesses and the people they employ, we would default. Do you disagree with my overall point though?



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 10:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by TRGreer
 


I can believe it. The govt does a fine job of destroying and suppressing "normal" creativity, too. I came to that conclusion this morning. I realized that my creative process and even my art has suffered because I have to worry about money, if I will HAVE money, or have it simply taken away, Will we be able to feed ourselves, and gawd help me- POLITICS.

I have no time for much else after constant worry and trying to keep heads above water.


I agree. Its pretty hard to take issue with wrong doing when someone is constantly directing your attentions to other more "pressing concerns" or they simply cover it up or hide it. They shelter us in ignorance and then speak on our behalf on issues that the majority of Americans have no clue exist.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 02:01 PM
link   
reply to post by The Old American
 


This post would have made sense if the OP was not basing it upon a quote taken out of context. The President was clearly referring to roads, bridges, education, and all of the other trappings of society that makes business possible. If you disagree with the man fine, and this goes for the Romney haters as well. Just base your arguements on what they say, not what you wish they said.



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 02:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by The Old American
 


Fox and co misquoted him and demonized his quote.

They put spin on everything. Why would you trust what they have to say? Read the quote yourself....

All he was trying to promote was team work. Don't be lame the way Fox wants you to be. Bill O´reily would be proud. Murdoch as well since nobody bothers to check anything. He likes to think of us as white trash morons...his words...

Don't trust this lie. They want to influence yet another election and subvert the democratic process by thinking FOR YOU.

Obama may not be a saint, but he was talking about team work, not political suicide....he is not retarded. He never said we OWE the government anything. He said we can thank each other for our prosperity and the fact we built what we got with team work, nothing else. The rest is like biblical interpretation, its subject to what you want to see.

edit on 31-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)


Your argument is incorrect. While I could see how it's possible to believe that's what he was saying, I don't buy it. He was being dismissive of success and trying to hype the crowd into class warfare by basically implying that they helped the wealthy get wealthy, and deserve some compensation.
I don't believe this because Fox says it, which I almost never watch. I believe it because of what he himself says over and over.
edit on 31-7-2012 by CalebRight14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 02:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by RealSpoke


There is a huge working poor population in the USA. There is this myth that everyone on welfare is lazy when it isn't the case. Most do have jobs, and they usually have the worst labor intensive jobs there are.


real spoke is on point as always. Keep it up.
edit on 31-7-2012 by ItsSocietysFault because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by bflak74
reply to post by The Old American
 


This post would have made sense if the OP was not basing it upon a quote taken out of context. The President was clearly referring to roads, bridges, education, and all of the other trappings of society that makes business possible. If you disagree with the man fine, and this goes for the Romney haters as well. Just base your arguements on what they say, not what you wish they said.



There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn't -- look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.


There's what he said. From first word to last. "Taking something out of context" is taking a snippet of a larger piece and saying "see, they said blah!" I took the entire thing. Can't get much more in context than that.

/TOA



posted on Jul, 31 2012 @ 03:11 PM
link   
We would not have a problem if companies were truly loyal to their country and their community. Meaning if the business makes a profit. 100% of it does not go into the pocket of the owner/investor. It should be spread around in some what of a fair manner to everyone in the company. Neither the laborer or the owner can exist without the other so it makes sense it should work this way.

Unfortunately in this world being a "shrewed busniness man" or a successful business man means that you are willing to screw people over for the benefit of a few. Today if we didn't have so many greedy corporations who would actually share in an even manner the money made by a company we would not have such a huge gap between rich and everyone else.

businesses should work in a way where if the business does well everyone feels it and if the business does bad everyone feels it as well. Today if a business does well only the top tier feel it and the business does bad only the bottom tier feels it.

For example in my company our stock has plummeted by 50% due to management decisions, they cut jobs and are looking to make us pay into our benefits, booting our 401k matching and freezing pensions. A few weeks later the ceo of our company gets some bonuses and brags on our company website what land it just bought to indulge itself in one of its many interests.

That is what is wrong with this country. They are lords and we are vassals. We suffer and they benefit. they are immune to any hardships and many pretty much think this is okay.
edit on 31-7-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
106
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join