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Originally posted by glasshouse
reply to post by milominderbinder
Yeah, I guess I did completely miss that!
I still feel like I've got the more logical argument on the Govt/Business debate though.
I believe all the examples of government virtue you have provided require money.
This revenue is created by collecting taxes.
Citizens pay taxes in the form of money.
Citizens earn this money from businesses.
Stop business: government has no natural source of revenue to spend on all its projects.
Stop government: you would still see people willing to buy goods and services they want as well as the people that make it their business to sell it to them
It seems that most don't agree that we should have a right to employment, healthcare or a residency!
Originally posted by drwizardphd
Originally posted by The Old American
Collectivists: Not doing anything on their own since...ever.
You can only go so far with the butterfly effect until it gets ridiculous.
You've never done anything on your own either. That's the whole point.
You can call me a collectivist all you want. You're typing on a computer that you (most likely) had no means to create yourself. You were educated by somebody at some point. You drive on public roads and walk on public sidewalks.
You wouldn't be speaking a language right now if it wasn't for 'collectivism'. 'Collectivism' is the reason human beings stopped picking fruit and started hunting in groups. 'Collectivism' is the reason we built cities, and governments. The founding fathers were 'collectivists'.
Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by TRGreer
I can believe it. The govt does a fine job of destroying and suppressing "normal" creativity, too. I came to that conclusion this morning. I realized that my creative process and even my art has suffered because I have to worry about money, if I will HAVE money, or have it simply taken away, Will we be able to feed ourselves, and gawd help me- POLITICS.
I have no time for much else after constant worry and trying to keep heads above water.
Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by The Old American
Fox and co misquoted him and demonized his quote.
They put spin on everything. Why would you trust what they have to say? Read the quote yourself....
All he was trying to promote was team work. Don't be lame the way Fox wants you to be. Bill O´reily would be proud. Murdoch as well since nobody bothers to check anything. He likes to think of us as white trash morons...his words...
Don't trust this lie. They want to influence yet another election and subvert the democratic process by thinking FOR YOU.
Obama may not be a saint, but he was talking about team work, not political suicide....he is not retarded. He never said we OWE the government anything. He said we can thank each other for our prosperity and the fact we built what we got with team work, nothing else. The rest is like biblical interpretation, its subject to what you want to see.
edit on 31-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by RealSpoke
There is a huge working poor population in the USA. There is this myth that everyone on welfare is lazy when it isn't the case. Most do have jobs, and they usually have the worst labor intensive jobs there are.
Originally posted by bflak74
reply to post by The Old American
This post would have made sense if the OP was not basing it upon a quote taken out of context. The President was clearly referring to roads, bridges, education, and all of the other trappings of society that makes business possible. If you disagree with the man fine, and this goes for the Romney haters as well. Just base your arguements on what they say, not what you wish they said.
There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn't -- look, if you've been successful, you didn't get there on your own. You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.