NWO Survival Planning

Food

It is probably a good idea to have some food with you to start out, as your initial days will be the most dangerous and the ones where most of your time is spent on tasks.

Try to have enough food to ration for at least 5 days - that should give you time to build some sort of shelter/camp site and get things in order.

I would offer that if you can grow crops, it would be a good idea, but that is not a very likely thing to happen.

The most likely food source is meat. How many squirls do you see a day? How many birds? The problem is catcjing/killing them - thus my vote for a 22 rifle. The ammo for it is light and cheap and there is a lot of it floating around.

Being in wooded areas will also allow for larger game.

This (food) is probably the greatest problem you will face - especially in the winter months.

While a sword needs no ammo, it also has no place in modern combat. The proliferation of modern firarms make swords nothing more than collectors items or display pieces. Not only do they have little use as a defensive weapon, then are worthless when it comes to hunting animals for food. Short of using them to cut brush they are worthless and not worth the weight added to your pack.

Since we are getting to the discussion of expanding the capacity of a bugout bag, I think a distinction needs to be made. In principle a bugout bag is supposed to be quick and lite allowing you to move quickly without a huge burden. While this is good, it lacks the capacity to carry larger ammounts of supplies such as food. This is about the dimensions of my current bag, if you want to upgrade to something with more capacity and attach points, get a pack with a metal tube frame like this. As you can see packs with a frame tend to be larger, have better padding and lots of attach points for extra gear. Unfortunately the more space you have, the heavier the pack gets and the more cumbersome it becomes.

I don't know how well vacuum bags would work, since that would require you to either suck out the air yourself, or have some kind of pump to do the work for you. While not boasting the same level of efficency, compression bags work wonders to compact things like clothes down, or just to organize and separate items in your pack (I use three of them to divide my mess kit, firestarting and misc items in my own pack).

I want to take a moment and just brush upon the topic of firearms and hunting. Most can debate till they are blue in the face about what caliber and brand of gun to have and why its the bar-none-best. American Mad Man hit on a good point that ammunition can be a form of currency in the scenario proposed by Indigo_Child. In deciding what caliber of weapon to have, I would suggest researching your part of the world and country to find out what rounds are popular and which ones are hard to come by. To me it seems the 30-06 Springfield cartridge is a very popular round for hunting, and also the .270 is gaining alot of attention among hunters. I personally think between the 30-30 and the 30-06 rounds you can drop just about anything in North America effectively. Its my personal oppinion that you should keep your shots under 150 to 100 yards in distance when hunting for survival, as every shot counts and ideally it should be a one-shot-one-kill system.

Personal defense with a weapon should be a last-resort; avoid confrontations with other people and animals. As for picking a weapon, its a matter of personal choice I think. Long rifles suitable for hunting dont make the most effective defense weapons because they are often limited in magazine capacity, have optical sights, and are bolt-action versus semi-automatic. Unless you intend to use the same weapon for defense that you use for hunting, weight will be a major issue in choosing a defense weapon. I would argue against handguns for defense because they dont offer much in the way of standoff ability. From personal shooting experience I would suggest either a .223/5.56mm weapon such as the AR-15 or Ruger Mini14, or any short barreled 12 gauge shotgun (NO sawedoffs, the shorter the barrel the worse the recoil and accuracy become) If you go the shotgun route, purchase 00 buckshot, slugs, and small game loads so that the weapon can have multiple roles. Don't get hung up on the idea of packing around multiple defense weapons; find one your comfortable with and that doesnt weigh too much and stick with it. Also if your completely new to hunting I would recommend taking a hunter safety course to get you familiar with the concepts regarding hunting, safety, and other necessary things.

American Mad Man > indeed, 3 to 5 days supply of food is a good idea to have as a bare minimum. While shooting game can be an effective way to feed yourself, in the scenario described in the beginning of the thread detection is a concern, and gunshots are a dead giveaway, especially multiple shots.

Food is definately a concern as the colder months approach, because the body needs more food to generate heat to survive. If possible game should be taken and preserved via smoking or other means during the onset of fall in order to prepare for the change in climate.

Friends,

In such a scenario the hand of God would have to continually be very very near.

Are you looking at a long-term or short term scenario??

To disappear into the wilderness for a short time with 1-4 people IMHO one would need...

An axe or hatchet
The ability to make a fire with a flint and steel
The knowledge and ability to sleep dry and warm under a pine tree during a rain storm
A complete knowledge of botany and native foodstuffs
A high quality knife and whetstone
A rudimentary knowledge or ability to quickly learn the habits and nature of wildlife/game animals
The ability to make an alati (Or a mlb quality throwing arm)
Basic medical knowledge (or a doctor companion )
The ability to make a snare for anything from mouse size to bear size and erase any trace of it
The patience to sit motionless for a full day waiting for a deer to cross a meadow and come within striking range
Complete lack of boredom or loneliness
Uncommen persistance

Peace

(notice that gunpowder is not present...)


Just starters


Unfortunatly the technology exists to easily pick up anyone trying to hide out in the wilderness.
in fact you may have a better life expectancy trying to hide out in a rad infested city

Darkness and extreme conditions MUST become your friend instead of your fears. You must invoke the fear of darkness and extreme weather upon your enemy. As well stealth is your ONLY friend, while help with the fight is good, YOU must learn to be your own best friend.

For stealth guns are useless unless you have a handgun with a silencer. Also a point no one has touched yet is with a knife you can make a useful weapon, a spear. With stealth this goes hand in hand, you are able to sneak up on stragglers or people on point for a quick silent kill. Also while hiding in the woods one can make use of traps to kill pursuers (knowledge of trap placement/land is essential).

Someone also said fishing line, which also is useful if stealth is mastered. Sneaking up behind someone and choking him or her with the fishing line. As well knowledge of the human body is rather helpful, not for medical purposes but from a military standpoint. A simple snap of the neck will take someone out of the fight.

A reasonable supply of very neat Alcohol (sp) is a good idea. 2-3 litres of a very strong spirit as high as 80%. When watered down this can be used to boost moalre and relax people. Something that will be important if you wisk to survive.

Can also be used to trade off for food if supplys run low.

I like the fact that you have to brought my mind a mental picture of an extreme senario the average american citizen would never think about. To say the least i am not your average. far above. but in any case the visual and mental affect would for my mind to believe such castastrophe would have to happen when and or if it did. you see its a good point and excellent thought but thats all it is is merely a thought and doesnt exist and is only a mental image or picture of pain and suffering that i can store in my mind. but if it begun this moment *i dont know*

Noticed a large number of folks in this thread arguing over the possible need of a long blade.
Understandably, most Joe Sixpacks wouldn't know good quality steel until it ripped out their intestines; also, understandably, one doesn't bring a knife (no matter how big & shiny, and no matter what your apparent relation to Adrian Paul. )to a gunfight.

Duh.

But to have something useful for cutting limbs (tree or otherwise), general brush clearing, and as a striking surface for a flint, one could always do with a good machete.

Besides, if you can sneak up in the guy with the gun, and don't make too much noise, you'll get more 'currency' than in a shootout....

Just a quick aside... I'll go back to watching and taking notes now.

[edit on 12-10-2004 by RavenCat13]

Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. I find this subject very interesting.

For an answer to the food problem, there is a great source that lasts a very long time in a compact volume.

**Mod Edit: removed advertisment **

Sounds like a good way to go, especially if you have to fit everything into a man portable bergen.

Cheers!

**

11.) You will not post advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations, all of which are inappropriate and prohibited by this website. You will not, furthermore, collect personal information about forum members for the purpose of sending them any such advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or solicitations through other means (email, messaging programs, etc.).

[edit on 12-10-2004 by Spectre]

The vacuum bags do not all require pumps, some work on releasing some form of valve that sucks out all of the air. I just recently got a back-pack, but without a frame, nonetheless, it should be functional.

I am going to focus on weapons this post:

In the UK, it is possible to get an air gun, provided it produces less than 12 foot pounds of force. I think a cross bow is legal too. I am hesistant in purchasing them. Is mail order safe, or am I likely to be asked questions?

Batons and swords would be great for close-combat, however in all likeliness, any confrontation is likely to be with long-range weapons.
Further more, moving around in public with swords, batons or even a pen-knife, concealed or not, could land you in jail if found. This is assuming you migrate before the national emergency is declared.

There is something that I can get without a problem, that could make a very good tactical weapon - A tactical flashlight. These produce a very bright and focussed beam of 60-200 lumen, using a xenon bulb, that could momentarily blind an assailant. Law enforcers and special ops have been using them mounted on firearms for a long time now.
They are expensive($50-200) and there are so many variants from different manufacturers, it is difficult to select which one. If anyone has any information on a good cost-effective tactical light, please share.

Hi-tech non-lethal weaponary:

Most probably, these are going to be weapons carried by police forces. Further, in potential outbreaks of violence amongst other civilians, for whatever reason, non-lethal weapons would be appropriate. If you can acquire them then it would be perhaps wise to get these. In some states in the US these can be purchased commercially. These include:

Pepper spray

Mace spray

Stun guns: When the enemy is touched by the prongs on the device, it will discharage thousands of volts into the target, incapacitating them for more than 5 min.

Tasar guns: They shoot two darts attached to wires to the gun, which then discharages thousands of volts into the target, incapacitating them for more than 5 min.

High intensity lasers: They operate on the same principle to tactical lights; blinding the enemy. They can be potentially damaging.

For those of us unfortunate ones, who cannot acquire these, I am sure they can be constructed, albeit, a more crude version. Any tutorials on this?

Perhaps ambitious, but I am also considering the possibility of a small-scale EM weapon. I know they can be constructed, as I saw a bunch of MIT students on a documentary on replicating a crop circle, use them. The aim was to distribute high-powered microwave radiation, with a magnetron around constructed crop circle, to simulate the reported EM effects. They were very successful in this regard, they were able to knock out the electrical equipment of the TV crew, and even more so, cause helicopters hovering above to lose power.

An EM weapon against an enemy relying on hi-technology and helicopters, would definitely be a force multiplier. Any electrians want to expand on this idea?

Another highly ambitious idea, is to use sonic weapons, as a form of mind weapon. Using ultra sonic waves for instance, it is possible to induce mind-altering effects in an enemy. For instance, dolphins use this as a stun-attack against predators.

[edit on 12-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Nature provides everything you need to survive and thrive. I have spent many nights camping in back country areas with only the tools I can carry. The best single tool I have found is knowledge. There are books available at any bookstore that can show you how to find shelter, water, food, and even natural medicines at least as effective as the #e we purchase over the counter. Read your local or regional history to find out how your ancestors survived before the advent of technology. They are no different than us. The important thing to remember is there is no such thing as "quality of life" there is only life and death. If you are sick, you are not dead. If you are injured, you are not dead. You only have two choices - choose to survive and you will thrive. As far as weapons- they are tools of destruction for both the user and the target. How do you fight an Apache? Or a Bradley or Abhrams or thousands of specially trained and battle hardened troops? You don't - at least not for long. Below your domesticated and spoiled exterior lies a more natural beast ( not in the monstrous sense) that is far more comfortable and at home within nature - find it and you will do just fine. And remember "the meek shall inherit the earth".

You know I'm from Canada and I to am concerned about an attack in the near future and I think it will be a bad one. They had a poll here and 48% of Canadians were concerned about terror attacks. I hope if something happens I would not have to leave my home. We have stocked up on can foods, medical supplies, soap...ect. I also think we are much closer to WW3 than some people may think. North Korea is a real serious threat.

Just thought of another "must have"

A tooth brush. Sounds silly, but imagine having lots of cavities or other oral problems when you can not seek proper treatment.

Hooligan: The only problem with discovering your inner "beast" is that if you begin doing so only when you need it, it is to late.

It would be like releasing a hand raised fox into the wild.
It will starve before it learns to hunt.

2 Quick questions for anyone out there...
What is the most nutricious good for you part of a fish??
Are poisonous snakes edible??

Oh and great idea with the portable emp device very interesting.....

First off you would need a weapon as all the supplies in the world wont save you when somebody with a gun takes them from you. If something bad goes down many people will not have supplies but many will have weapons. And they will be looking for supplies by any means they can.

Weapon choice.

Rifle- Ak-47 good stopping power, *reliable* -Thats the most important thing if a gun wont work for you its not much more then a paper weight. The AK is pretty much idiot proof.

Some of the list other people have put up are great. Somethings I would stress

The Basic 3

Water- water purification pumps and tablets
Food- Canned food or even better MREs they have a great shelf life.
Shelter- A simple tent and good sleeping bag could be a life saver.

Thats really all you need to survive

Heres some places where you can buy most of the items on the lists given in this tread


www.cheaperthandirt.com...

www.sportsmansguide.com...

tapco.com...

Originally posted by ab2tw


2 Quick questions for anyone out there...
What is the most nutricious good for you part of a fish??
Are poisonous snakes edible??

Oh and great idea with the portable emp device very interesting.....

Venomous snakes are indeed edible they have a venom gland only in their head. I have eaten rattle snake before and know people eat cobra and even drink cobra blood in other parts of the world.

Most nutricious part of a fish this is wierd but its the brain I believe. Bears during samon runs will often only eat this part of samon when they are lots of them since its the most nutricious. Tasty is another story but really anything after you gut a fish is good eaten.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 13-10-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by ab2tw
2 Quick questions for anyone out there...
What is the most nutricious good for you part of a fish??
Are poisonous snakes edible??

1) Don't know. I assume the meat aint bad for ya

2) Yes - as said the venom is in the head. Cut of the head and you have some good meat. I have had rattle snake too, and must say it's not bad at all.

It's true if you wait to explore and excercise your more natural state of being until a time when you must rely on it you are doomed. My advice would be to begin now. The time I have spent in nature has not been in preparation for a global catastrophe or escape from would be pursuers. It has been a time of cleansing and rehabilitation - both mentaly and emotionally. Stepping out of my daily existence and into natural surroundings has provided me with veiws ( both inward and outward ) of a world we cannot dominate or control but rather cooperate with to achieve balance and harmony. We are inherently natural not technological beings and when we emerse ourselves in nature we can find a sense of belonging unattainable within any group, club, or modern society in general, (cue "Grizzly Adams" theme we find that nature is home.
We are more like that hand raised and bottle fed fox than we can imagine. It's true we can "survive" in our captive environment and be well fed and properly medicated with ample opportunity to roam about the habitat that has been created for us by those who keep us secure - and in doing so would never know the fear of being prey or even having to hunt or forage. All of the dangers faced by the unfortunate among us who do not live within our habitat will never darken our doorstep. Is this however the life we were intended to live? And if not - is it right or even truly healthy? We have all heard of the problems faced by animal researchers and zookeepers when attempts are made to force creatures to flurish in captivity. The question is are we not animals ( mammalia, primates, homosapiens )? Paradise cannot be found within the womb of technology. I don't know- maybe I should lay off the sweet leaf. - Peace to all.

think "madmax"......money may be useless, even cash, so things like water, gas, bullets, food, anti-biotics will be currency or barter......then you have to be clever and strong enough to hold onto it....


I , for one, can't see americans cowering in corners because someone on a loud speaker told them to.......

Originally posted by hooligan13 The best single tool I have found is knowledge. There are books available at any bookstore that can show you how to find shelter, water, food, and even natural medicines at least as effective as the #e we purchase over the counter. Read your local or regional history to find out how your ancestors survived before the advent of technology. They are no different than us. [...]

This is a very prescient posting [imo anyway] - we've only got fat, stupid and lazy in the last, what 50, 100, 150 years ? Against that we have human evolution going back as far as 1.5Mi years by some accounts. Forget that level of pedantry tho' - you need only go to 10k to 8k back in most parts of the world - people survived, thrived even, and this far back people were not agrarian to any kind of extent either.

Ok, ok - I accept that no one was being hunted with guns, helicopters etc, but it wouldn't have been without danger, some of which we'd probably have the knowledge to deal with now anyway (stuff like infection control, food hygiene etc) - ride that bit out until the infrastructure falls over anyway (maybe in the remains of cities where there would be the opportunity for savaging too) and we'll all be living off the land. No amount of modern tech or ammo is going to help anyone then.

Small EMP devices, tempting - but hard to do I understand, against which 'targets' may be EMP hardened anyway. Tempting tho' ...

I'll be aiming to just keep out of the way.
How do you, sorry, how would you sucessfully hide your IR signature ?

---

I'll add zip ties to my bag - and what about living in remote coastal zones ?
You'll have seafood, seaweed, and maybe even the opportunity for cargo cultism. Pick the right spot, big woodland, nearby river, access to a long bit of coast ...

As H13 says - learn from the past: and it's not too late either - maybe read up - turn your computer off, go outside and start now, like right now.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by 0951]

Originally posted by 0951

I'll be aiming to just keep out of the way.
How do you, sorry, how would you sucessfully hide your IR signature ?

---

The only way to really hide your IR signature is to hide underground. A thermal imager can detect even the smallest fraction of change in a degree. You might be able to cover all your body heat but you would over heat and die very quickly. Perhaps in you had a astronaut suit it would work. The military is working on some types of suits that will reduce a IR signature by about 50%.

So really finding a cave,sewer or other underground structure is your best chance. This is tactic they teach in the military if you are trying to evade people searching for you with IR cameras.