Colorado Shooting Case: Media Seek to Unseal Documents, End Secrecy

reply to post by squirelnutz


Oh no no I completely agree with you, but you cannot take any one source for gospel like so many others do. You know the people who read some story of the loch ness monster sighted, and they read that one story and to them its the truth because the news said it.

We need to take what we read and then cross reference that with other sources and use that to form an opinion of our own. The problem is that too many people are inherently lazy and will do no work on their part to make sure the stuff they are reading, especially things of this magnitude, are actually based in fact and not fiction.

reply to post by cd123456


I couldn't have said it better myself, friend


I know Sooooo many people that watch something on History Channel n claim its the word of god, its so infuriating
they say "Why would HC lie" ugggghhh because their owned by people that own another company that would lose money if HC spilled the beans


I do really like Huff Post, they aren't as biased [a little left wing at times, but they call out all politicians, not just on the right] as most media, and report alot on human right abuses, a dirty secret most media wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole


I think dismissing all of MSM tho, with its millions of reporters, is kinda ignorant

reply to post by squirelnutz


You are certainly right, the MSM has many, many, many journalists, and I am not naive enough to think that every single one is complicit in the manipulation that occurs. I am sure there are many journalists that do not believe what the OS is, but the problem is how to get that info out. They have a snowballs chance in hell of getting it on television on a major network, and even in the newspapers, today you have little chance there either.

We need a journalist, of decent repute, who shares some of the same views we have, to do some real digging, something that could get out to a majority of people in the world to see. Nothing more than the truth that the MSM shields them from. The sad part is the chance of that happening are slim to none.

Let me ask this question. What do people tell you when you explain to them about the quality of articles found here on ATS? The majority of people I speak to give me the same look you see crazy people given. If only there was some way to get the info out there to the masses, and let them make their own decisions. Then, maybe then, some people may begin to stand up against the MSM and their blatant censorship of real news.

reply to post by cd123456


When i bring up conspiracy theories, i just tell people im fascinated by them, even the insane ones.. I try not talking about my beliefs cuz they go against the grain.. I'm the traditional devils advocate, which means i dont have very many friends lmao.. I like seeing things from EVERY angle, including the crackpot angle, before i make up my mind..

There are a lot of extremely smart people here on ATS, and the topics and conversations are fascinating but I know most people would look at ATS, see one 'Crazy' conspiracy [and there are loads of em], and dismiss them all

my buddies are just now figuring out the home loan scandal, which they want to talk to me about all the friggin time.. even tho that was old news a year ago.. I've even got a buddy who just last week, didn't know who Mitt Romney was, yet still tried talking to me [well at me] about politics.. Suffice to say our younger generation doesnt give a f*** about current events, conspiratorial or not

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Secrecy is the institutions most valuable tool, they will not give it up easily. Why is the details of this secret anyway? It all just implies that stuff is being hidden, which it probably is

My guess is because it's a National Security threat if they release that info.
Some rogue blackop perhaps from CIA or some random agency? Hiding that info would be necessary.
Or even perhaps from a foreign intelligence agency? Can't let the public know we could be infiltrated in such a way.

Originally posted by yourmaker
Some rogue blackop perhaps from CIA or some random agency? Hiding that info would be necessary.
Or even perhaps from a foreign intelligence agency? Can't let the public know we could be infiltrated in such a way.

I haven't heard this theory yet, but makes sense..

Combine Mk Ultra with a foreign intelligence agency..

Originally posted by rebellender
Welcome to the ATS Creative Writing where we all play SPIN 2 WIN


hey I do it too

edit on 29-7-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)

I finally got what you meant by this, and it's awesome. Basically when we don't know what is going on, we play SPIN 2 WIN in hopes that we nail it! So true! But it's a good thing, and make for good reading, too, as long as everyone realizes that it is speculation and is willing to look at the data.

In my experience, I have found that television news outlets seem to be more about propaganda than print news. On some level, I think all the news outlets are interested in the truth somewhat, so it is good to use them - after all, it doesn't take too much skill to wipe clean the propaganda and see the facts behind something. I also find that websites like the BBC aren't very biased. In fact, that's where I go to find my unbiased news, it doesn't really have too much of a left/right bias, but it might have a Western bias, which is understandable imo - the two worlds aren't that integrated yet.

About the court records being sealed, anyone on the jury should have access to all of the details on the case, and should be under orders to not be exposing themselves to outside media regarding the case, they probably aren't even allowed to talk about it outside of jury duty, not even in private.

I don't see anything wrong with keeping the court records sealed a bit longer, as long as they are released in their entirety in a reasonable amount of time.

Unfortunately, nothing will come of this regardless. Do you know why they want to unlock that information? It's not for investigatory journalism. That is guaranteed. It's so they can make a gigantic media spectacle, and the more information they have the better.

Why would you think they would be rallying to discover the truth? They have not gave us truth for decades. The privacy of the case simply makes it harder for them to make a media circus.

Well, I guess there could be something to come of it. The more information the better. I guess it would increase the opportunities for leaks and breaks. But whatevs

this whole thing just does not feel like a normal shooting, not sure if its a conspiracy but not your normal crazed gunman situation.

reply to post by darkbake


It will be fabulous to see a push to make the entire case as transparent as possible. When anything in any administration system is kept secret, locked, sealed, not for the public - you have to ask the question why????

As for thinking that sealing the records will maintain integrity - is that a joke? If you want integrity - get the media away from the site and the witnesses and just let the professional investigators collect the evidence without any publicity. Essentially jury members are chosen because they have no bias and that can be determined by what they already know - or preferably - don't know about the case.

With the media and sites like these analysing everything - it becomes a challenge to install jury members who have not seen or heard information pertaining to the events.

As for the diary - what a joke. If we can believe what has been reported - it sat unattended in the mail room and was 'suddenly' discovered. Then an article stated the 'psychiatrist' didn't even open it???? but handed it over to the authorities?????

Everything about this event is tragically flawed and I know it is because soooooooo many people are awake and are rousing and asking questions. Anything that is 'stage managed' by a media that is controlled by only six CEOs is going to be biased.

The website wellaware1 is very informative and challenges the concepts - with proof - that media events are often staged with actors and who knows who....hmmmm that's all I can say about any 'newsworthy' event that gets saturation coverage. Thank you for the intellectually stimulating thread.

Much Peace...to the victims of this sad event...

reply to post by darkbake


I'm in two minds about it. Look what the Media did to James Holmes mother by twisting her words. By unsealing the documents they're going to have a field day and probably do even more damage to what they've already done.

I'm afraid the Media will not be able to unseal the documents.

reply to post by darkbake


you got it man, glad you got the intent, didnt want to lose ya

This is the beginning of the unmasking.
The college told nobody to talk, the judge seals the records.
All is shrouded in secrecy but not for long.........

I give you Penn State.

wow - people do have short memories - hi profile case records are routinely seald - get over it

The media isn't trying to do you a favor. Do you really think they want you to have the truth? They want ratings. They want $$$. And any request made where money is the underlying reason for the request is probably not a good idea. They will sensationalize it. They will screw it up by reporting any snippet even if it has the flimsiest bit of evidence. They are not doing anyone a favor but themselves.

Regardless of what you think, you are not entitled the truth about this case, or this guy. The media is not going to present you with evidence where using your super ATS deductive powers, you will be able to fathom the truth of the matter. That is.. many here will think they know everything.. but they will not even be remotely close. Such is the way it goes here.

Yesterday while reading an article in the Denver Post, I caught the following.

Unfortunately, the penchant for secrecy orders in the 18th Judicial District, where this case is proceeding, is nothing new. There seems to be an unusual appetite for silence about cases being prosecuted by the office of District Attorney Carol Chambers.

Editorial: Unusual secrecy in Aurora shooting case

So secrecy may or may not be common in this district, but like the rest of you I'm all for full transparency so that we might have better insight into what happened.

I'll admit. I am looking forward to seeing how this case plays out. In my opinion, it's going to get very interesting. Not to make light of such a tragedy, but with so many questions surrounding this incident, how could we not be interested?

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by darkbake

What was the reason the judge sealed the records? No one knows.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Holmes claimed that the package with the documents contains "confidential, medical information". (Remember, it was sent to a psychiatrist).

It has been said that the package contains actually his killing plan outlined which he sent to the doctor in advance, which would prove beyond any reasonable doubt that he is NOT insane. (Since he planned everything and even wrote it down).

The sealing of the documents is basically a dirty trick so he can pledge insanity, without the compromising proof that he is not.

edit on 29-7-2012 by flexy123 because: (no reason given)

Even without a gag order we wouldn't be privy to his [any] Drs info, re;HIPAA, The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 .

But I wouldn't be surprised if we never see this going to trial [James Holmes unable to mentally withstand a trial], and that will be extremely suspicious.

reply to post by darkbake


Theory on it, to save face or because he was given orders not to show it.

reply to post by darkbake

In my experience, I have found that television news outlets seem to be more about propaganda than print news. On some level, I think all the news outlets are interested in the truth somewhat, so it is good to use them - after all, it doesn't take too much skill to wipe clean the propaganda and see the facts behind something.

I have a lot of respect for the way you comment and seem to come across many of your posts, but here I have to disagree with you.[In the bold print]
*bold is my emphasis.
I agree that it wouldn't be difficult for you [or me], but many people believe all that they listen to in the MSM, and is why so many say not to watch it at all... because so many can't differentiate between what might be propaganda and what is fact. Common sense isn't very common these days. Remember some of the jurors in recent past?

About the court records being sealed, anyone on the jury should have access to all of the details on the case, and should be under orders to not be exposing themselves to outside media regarding the case, they probably aren't even allowed to talk about it outside of jury duty, not even in private.

The jurors will not be chosen for some time [possibly years], and that's if this case even gets before a jury. With a gag order in place, future jurors will have to be sequestered and won't be permitted any regular TV, outside of movies, no newspapers or radio..and they can't even discuss the case amongst themselves other than during deliberations. Much will be kept from them [not all evidence is allowed in any case], and the jurors who are chosen will be people who were not interested in the case as it was in the news [within reason considering the magnitude of this tragedy]. It won't be easy finding jurors, but I'm starting to think that this won't get to trail..hope I'm wrong.

reply to post by RobinB022


I think you are right about both things you mentioned, thanks for clearing that up. Don't worry about pointing something out that I missed or was wrong about, I need to be able to know about those things and encourage people to question what I say in case I become too well-known around here or something.

In particular, you are right, there are a lot of people out there who don't have the skills necessary to discern the propaganda from the truth, even some of the more educated people I know. I didn't think about this for some reason, since I don't usually hang around those types of people, probably.

I also didn't realize that the jury hadn't been picked yet - that is something I should have known had I been paying more attention. Hearing about that, I wonder if it is unusual for court records to be sealed in cases like this? Also, I am a full supporter of them being released eventually.