Jesus Christ's Superderterministic, Cosmological, Magnum Opus.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


When our souls begin to rise...

That road is traveled
and a life is started as two are raveled
of joyous smiles and humor saddled
It’s the masterpiece of hope
only God could have dabbled.

reply to post by Americanist

Nice.

Do you have a music video to go with that, by chance?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I wrote that as poetry... I posted the last few lines. Trust me, it would make for a horrible song!

reply to post by Americanist

I didn't mean go with it directly, but your favorite music video that expresses the same sentiment, because you're pretty good at that too. Did you just write this one or is it too an oldie but a goodie?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Americanist

 

I didn't mean go with it directly, but your favorite music video that expresses the same sentiment, because you're pretty good at that too. Did you just write this one or is it too an oldie but a goodie?

edit on 13-10-2012 by NewAgeMan because: damn typo

Oldie but goodie... Guess I lack the current motivation!

I was listening to this earlier - partly due to the weather:

This has got to be my fav thread on this site.
You cover so much!!
I just still wonder how a white guy ended up in the middle east lol.
Thanks really for putting all the time into this.

reply to post by monkeyofstick

Thank you so much for the feedback as I was beginning to wonder if it was all worth it because I lost a lot of time on the job when this thread was coming together and it cost me, and now your comment has made it all worthwhile.

How did a white guy end up in the middle east? It's been intimated in this thread, but the strange answer to the question could be - if he was half Roman? (they were under Roman occupation at the time and Jesus was an illegitimate child).

31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Ouch! What a hurtful thing to say!

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Jesus’ Claims About Himself
48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Note how good he was as slipping away unseen, which he did on numerous occassions, on top of being a master of disguise (see the passage on the Road to Emmaus.)

I tell you, he was an absolute master in more ways than one when he re-entered the scene to meet up with his co-conspirator John for his Baptism at the Jordan River.

And his sacred heart of thorns was already formed very early on, almost assuredly from being teased unrelentingly as a child for looking different and for being a bastard child.

How he ended up dealing with this and reconciling everything is a real marvel and a wonder in and of itself - see him on the cross as the snow-white, blemish free lamb of God taking upon himself all the evil of the world while remaining uncompromising as the Good Shepherd.

Sure casts everything in a whole new light and adds the required context by which to better understand and sympathize with the person of Jesus (Yeheshua).

From birth his lot was cast, yet it required an unbelievable amount of courage, wisdom and understanding for him to put it all together in fulfilling his destiny.

Me I'm just glad it had a happy ending..!

In The Field


That's the Jesus with the wider flatter face..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I should add, to avoid any confusion at this point, that in exploring the historical person of Jesus, we are not subscribing to the immaculate conception or the virgin birth story. In the re-borth ("not of flesh, but of the spirit') exchange with Nicodemus previously posted, the inference, however unpleasant it may be to consider, is that there's a "problem" with Jesus' lineage and the reason that no one would give them a place to give birth. Bear in mind that the area was under Roman occupation, and that Joseph, in spite of finding his bride-to-be already pregnant, still married her (if she "cheated" then that wouldn't have happened). Nevertheless, the spirit is always present at every conception no matter the circumstance, and the unfolding of Jesus' life story and what was made possible could not have occured without the loving support of his mother and Joseph (the unsung hero in this part of the story). That Joseph, in a dream, was told by an angel to still marry Mary and to call the child "God saves" (or a variation thereof) seems congruent and is probably true.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan


"Behold, woman (look mom) I make all things new (virginal)!" [while carrying cross]

God works in mysterious ways..

Originally posted by troubleshooter

God's Conspiracy is to blindside the wise, learned, mighty and noble...
...and most of you have been punk'd.


God first said He would do this through His prophet Isaiah who wrote in the 8th century BC...

"...behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." Isaiah 29:14


Paul quotes from Isaiah in his first letter to Corinth (one of the undisputed letters of Paul)...

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent (learned, intelligent). 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Corinthians 1:19-20


He did it by turning the human notions of wisdom on its head...

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:" 1 Corinthians 1:26-28


God designed a way to reveal Himself that would be rejected by the world's best and brightest...
...and it is still blindsiding those who think they are special because of wealth, education or power.


How did God punk most of you?

He revealed Himself as a babe, conceived and born in scandal...
...as a man He healed the sick, sided with the oppressed and raised the dead...
...He opposed the religious and secular elite...
...who executed Him for telling them who He really was...
...but He then turned this corporate murder into a victory over death itself.


Paul said it like this...
"...the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."


Your responses will reveal whether you have been punk'd by God or not.

Perhaps it's the existence of this thread circling the "noosphere" that's led to the confusion of certain government officials and candidates making statements about “Legitimate Rape” and Rape pregnancy God's will ..?

Or, people can run with the half-God half-human hybrid at conception story, but it's not nearly as inspirational and doesn't really give us a person in Jesus that we can fully relate to as works in progress, let alone the fact that chromosomes from both a man and woman are required for conception.

Bear in mind however that the spirit of God is always present at conception no matter the circumstances, and that God is quite capable of employing any evil to bring about a greater good even the Great Work of the Ages.

"What is born of the flesh is flesh, but of the spirit, spirit."

Nicodemus and Jesus - Reborn
go to 2:24 in the vid - segment runs to 5:35

Note very closely, the subtle nuances (intentionally directed) in this exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus surrounding the issue of rebirth.

The person of Jesus Christ was (and remains in spirit) what Drunvalo Melchizedek refers to as a "Walk In".

Yet nevertheless, so that he could self-identify, and do the work required to be re-born from above while retaining absolute purity and perfection as the Lamb of God, his physical conception, his birth, AND great work (at a blood red moon) was "marked" celestially, as outlined previously in this thread (see Star of Bethlehem videos and information).

Thus, Jesus was doubly-sent, by fate and cicumstance and by God as the first-last cause and the first father of creation and living spirit of the universe. Greater than Thoth and Hermes, Jesus was the three times great King of Kings and Lord of Lords, even yes, God, in the flesh.

Perhaps Jesus' conception is the only one in history where the term "legitimate rape" may apply, it's a difficult issue to fathom I realize but I must say that Jesus handled it very well, even to a "t", and beyond.

"Behold woman! (See), I make all things new (virginal)!" [while carrying the cross]


Who, knowing all this, would not love and admire Jesus, or fail to reocognize his Great Work?

There's the resolution presented in this work of art, to the age old problem and paradox of human evil, embodied and personified for the greater glory of the greatest possible love and goodness. It cannot be denied if Jesus is 1) accepted as a real historical figure and 2) was in fact cruficied under the governorship of Pontias Pilate - you cannot say that it's meaningless or insignificant in other words, and if it means anything at all then by God and by extension, according to universal principals, it means everything and it means everything that it means everything. Life it not absurd and meaningless you see and not even death, as much as it may be a part of life gets to have the last word, or to silence it, no the word froim the mouth of love lives on in eternity, already and whoever eats and drinks (groks) of it, will never die and can never die.

Watched that 7-part youtube video wiht that lawyer guy where he explores the birth of jesus and his crucifixion and tries to link it to astronomical events. Was interesting.

I was a christian 10+ years ago, not anymore. Can't go back. Even as I watch this and think "Hey, that's cool," I just can't see it the way christians see it. To me, it's just some cool symbolism and who knows what else. Bottom line, christianity, like spiritualism or any othe religion or dogma, is just an excuse to shut your mind off. People don't really care what the excuse is.

Even if Jesus appeared in front of me and confirmed that he's the son of god and that everything in the bible is the word of god and whatever else, I'd still reject it all. God is a dictator, in my opinion. The old testament is filled with God's wrath. There's noting there that's friendly. And even the new testament, in my view, is just a softer reimagining of the same psychopath.

Call me hte wise man that was fooled by God. I'm punk'd, for sure. But don't worry, God will take carry of it and make sure that I burn for an eternity in hell for my rejection of him.

I see more humanity and friendliness in normal everyday people than I do in God. There's more spirit when I'm outside with the cat then there is with the doublespeak bible book. There's more truth in the birds outside doing their song and dance than there is in being born again. I don't care, all the christians of the world can tell me I'm wrong. God himself can tell me I'm wrong.

Again, don't worry or feel sorry for me. I'll have an eternity in hell to regret it. I go by what my heart tells me, not what a book says or what somebody tells me to think.

If the birds and the cats and the everyday people go to hell then I got to hell with them. God can have his believers and all this other stuff and take it and stay away from me.

I feel this way very strongly. I hope you understand that I'm not loose how I say this.

Having had a few more moments to take in the video I watched last night (birth of jesus and the crucifixion being linked to astronomical events) I now wonder if Astrology is IS related...

The guy in the video says Astrology is NOT related. He says the bible references "signs" in the heavens. The bible says that God names every star. The heavens declare the glory of god. The guy said that Astrology is bad because it teaches you that the signs in the heavens run your life. The signs in the heavens do not run our lives, yet they DO (apparently) declare the glory of God.

IMHO, I think the whole Jesus story is made up. I don't believe God became a man and lived for 30+ years and then died and resurrected. Honestly, I think that Astrologers in those days were watching for "signs" and essentially forced kinghood onto whatever random baby showed up that correlated with them. This is how Jesus really came to be. He was just a random baby that stumbled onto the astronomical math and signs that the Astrologers of that day could grasp. But Christians will never accept this. They've believed too long and whatever truth there was is now buried in gospel. Recall that linking signs in nature to events in the community is something that goes back thousands of years in most cultures. People can be celebrated or even killed based on what the signs say.

People forget how powerful faith is. Faith comes in all different colors. There're many thousands of cults and religions circulating in the world. People are tricked into believing anything. How many different religious and cult stories that're passed as fact do you think exist? I'd say probably maybe millions, especially if you consider the seperate books of the bible and those books that were not included. The story that the son of god came into being as a jewish man and lived for 30+ years and resurrected after his crucifixion and stayed for a while and then rose up into the heavens does not need empirical evidence for people to believe it. Religion and spiritualism, as driving forces of human nature, more than likely, come built-in, since they're so prevalent. I think Dawkins wrote a book he called The God Part of the Brain. If someone wants to know more about how they come built-in, I'm sure there's more out there. But anyway, the idea that some astronomical events in history can prove that Jesus is the son of God and that he resurrected after being crucified is not something that's going to happen. And it was never needed anyway, Christians would have believed it without it.

Honestly, I think Astrology IS related. I just don't know exactly how yet. But I do know that there were Astrologers in those days and that looking for signs was an important thing. You could say that every people WANTED a king, a savior, a hero, a God in human form to help them. Somebody to lead them. They wanted it so bad that they were willing to lie to themselves and create cults and religions to give the lie life. This could even be an individual need that stems from us having separate selves.

Here is an interesting take on the Bethlehem Star:
www.astronomynotes.com - The Truth of the Bible Is Metaphorical---a more than literal meaning...

..........
What if the Bethlehem Star was simply made up by the author of Matthew? Great celestial events and the births of notable kings went together. The author of Matthew was writing for a primarily Jewish audience and the author wanted to convince them of the claim of Jesus being the fulfillment of Jewish prophecies and being greater than Moses, their law-giver, and Elijah, their greatest prophet. Saying that the Bethlehem Star was not a real historical event does not detract from the message of Matthew. At worst, it means that all of those Christmas cards with the nativity scenes are not physically/historically correct (but anyone who has carefully read Matthew and Luke already knows that!).

I am going to take a middle path with the final things I say here. Those whose faith is dependent on proving the historical veracity (the "historicity") of Matthew's account of the Bethlehem star are on shaky ground and are missing the real point of the birth story. Those who would dismiss the birth story because it cannot be proved historically accurate are also missing the real point of the story. While both extremes will worship at the altar of literal-factual truth, the vast majority of Christians understand that there is a deeper truth worthy of worship.
..........

I think it's very possible that the religious texts in the bible were arranged to coincide with celestial events. This would make more rationale sense than it being "Superdeterminstic, Cosmological, etc." I think the guy behind The Real Star Of Bethlehem on youtube is guilty of this. Not so much because he intentionally set out to lie, but because he wanted to believe and this distorted the truth.

What do you think is more likely? That God configured the heavens at the beginning of time to declare the birth and crucifixion of Christ and then later became a man in Christ form on earth to be crucified and resurrected and to fulfill history? To believe whatever you read in the bible as some sampling of literal fact? Or is it more likely that the bible is a work of fiction whereby the men/women(?) who wrote it arranged the texts to coincide with past astronomical events and/or acted to insert non-factual elements to bolster the religious text and proclaim the glory of God? Or is it just a retelling of history that has been reimagined by modern day believers to coincide with past astronomical events with the result that history is made more miraculous and powerful?

Perception is easily distorted by our mind. The guy in that The Real Star Of Bethlehem youtube video even admits it when he says that the facts must coincide with the bible. So whatever the star of bethlehem is, it had to coincide exactly with what's in the bible. There're other examples. One of the pieces of evidence he relies on is that the death of Harod was in 1 BC. He does this because Jesus must be born in 3 BC in order to coincide with Jupiter crowning Regulus in Leo Virgo, which precipitates Virgo rising clothed in the sun with the new moon at her feet. It also must be this way so that the conjoining of Jupiter and Venus on 12/25/2 BC can be what the Magi see as they go from Jerusalem to Bethlehem and watch it as it comes to a stop over Bethlehem. And what of the crucifixion? If it does not fall on April 3, 33 AD then it will not coincide with the eclipse and this diminishes the value of the verses he references to the point that they lack authority.

Lastly, the death of Arthur C. Clarke was 2 hours after a gamma ray burst. *hint* The man was ahead of his time and predicted many things that have come true. He's a messiah! Err...

The gamma ray burst is described here:
en.wikipedia.org - GRB 080319B...

GRB 080319B was a remarkable gamma-ray burst (GRB) detected by the Swift satellite at 06:12 UTC on March 19, 2008. The burst set a new record for the farthest object that could be seen with the naked eye;[2] it had a peak apparent magnitude of 5.8 and remained visible to human eyes for approximately 30 seconds.[3] The magnitude was brighter than 9.0 for some 60 seconds
...........
A record for the number of observed bursts with the same satellite on one day, four, was also set. This burst was named with the suffix B since it was the second burst detected that day. In fact, there were 5 GRBs detected in a 24 hour period, including GRB 080320.
..........

In reference to The Real Star of Bethlehem series, setting aside the celestial signs accompanying the conception and birth of Jesus including the visitation by the Magi and how they identified and located him - I do believe that I can prove via a historical textual criticism of the Gospel accounts along with the astrological evidence of a lunar eclipse occuring in simultaneity with the day of the cross that indeed Jesus did make use of the cosmologically unique earth/moon/sun relationship as a "cue" and, that the lunar eclipse on Preparation Day of Passover (and the only one of it's kind during the governorship of Pontias Pilate) actually formed the schedule by which Jesus was working, with foreknowledge, and (if that weren't astounding enough), because it (the lunar eclipse) rose already in eclipse over the horizon AFTER he was already on the cross, that it was an instrument he used to great effect in terms of confounding his enemies by performing what I would call a double reverse sting hoodwink and double-bind. If so, what this also demonstrates is that Jesus was initiated into all the sacred mysteries including what was then the art of Astrology and thus, that Jesus Christ was also, not only an actual historical figure but an enlightened and extremely knowledgable Magus of the highest order.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


No you can't.

There's 28 pages and 4 months of you saying you have proof without actually presenting anything that doesn't require a healthy dose of faith.

"There is a principal which serves as a bar against all information and proof against all arguments and one which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principal is called - contempt, prior to investigation."
~ Herbert Spencer, Scientist.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
"There is a principal which serves as a bar against all information and proof against all arguments and one which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principal is called - contempt, prior to investigation."
~ Herbert Spencer, Scientist.

That is very true and I think it is what caused you to disregard the information that I and others have offered in this thread.

You said it yourself, somewhere in these 28 pages, that you wanted to just be allowed to discuss this theory of yours without having to prove anything. Now your once again claiming that there is proof.

Yes, not only proof of that, but that our entire solar system and therefore by extension our galaxy was created according to super-intelligent design, and one already beginning with the end in mind ie: that man (and son of Man) would arise from the process, eventually (or right on time?) self-recognizing with absolute awareness or God-consciousness, his true stature, both in relation to the creation, the creator (first father) and Absolute Godhead (perfection in wholeness with integrity), and to one's fellow man ie: God-realized in the fullness of time and history, not for his sake, but for OURS. Yes there is evidence, and proof of these things. Yet for some, even when the time comes that it's staring them straight in the face, they will not recognize it, because on hearing they will hear and hear again but never hear and on seeing see and see again but never see.