Overwhelming evidence that disproves the official story

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posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


Just a thought here...if your so new to this site...then why on earth would you feel it was even necessary to quantify your response with I am not an existing member creating a new account...now that stands out like a beacon to me...i mean really a new member would not even be concerned with such a thought....would they?

also it is clear from the physics to me...that there is no way the building would just collapse all the way down with only 20% of the upper structure falling down onto 80% of the lower structure which was more robust...also as the building gets built they are not built from top down are they...they always support each and every element as they rise up.

So maybe you can do better than Bazant when presenting the physics...because i know i have shown him to fail on many levels....and i have written to him as a colleague...And he does not have the common courtesy to reply...Nist lied about freefall times and they finally had to retract their statements as presented by a physics teacher....So i am sorry...but the physics are not clear....AT ALL now are they.
edit on 093131p://f04Sunday by plube because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


Just a thought here...if your so new to this site...then why on earth would you feel it was even necessary to quantify your response with I am not an existing member creating a new account...now that stands out like a beacon to me...i mean really a new member would not even be concerned with such a thought....would they?



Fully agree.

EDIT: I am not an exiting or banned Member either.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


Just a thought here...if your so new to this site...then why on earth would you feel it was even necessary to quantify your response with I am not an existing member creating a new account...now that stands out like a beacon to me...i mean really a new member would not even be concerned with such a thought....would they?


Because it was in reply to this:



I see a couple of people made new accounts just to comment on this thread, and I suspect they are troll accounts made just to be awkward, but you can make as many troll accounts as you want, you cannot take away what people say in this video, and you cannot deny what you can see, or hear when the tower's collapse.




So maybe you can do better than Bazant when presenting the physics...because i know i have shown him to fail on many levels....and i have written to him as a colleague...And he does not have the common courtesy to reply...Nist lied about freefall times and they finally had to retract their statements as presented by a physics teacher....So i am sorry...but the physics are not clear....AT ALL now are they.
edit on 093131p://f04Sunday by plube because: (no reason given)


I am not sure about LIE, thats a strong statement you make, Its part of science to change theories to fir the evidence and there's nothing wrong with that. Which calculations of Bazants are wrong? For example do you disagree when he says the towers had more than enough potential energy to destroy and collapse themselves?



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


hey...i have no problem saying they have lied...you know why...if you look into the people who are behind these organizations and how the same investigators were on the Oklahoma bombing....the 1993 truck bombing....and the towers....Not once has it been fair and independent...also if you look into the people on the 911 commission you will notice the pattern of deceit.

Also since you posted that remark.....i can understand your statement for your reply to the changing accounts statement...fair dues to you on that...if someone said it to me i too would defend myself against a remark as such....For me...it is simple...i am am always have had this handle...no matter where i am or what site i am on...so easy to trace.

Also if you read my signature thread you will know i am Anti -Zionist...and for me it is quite clear how the shadow government operate....and who is running the show with their lies and deceit.....so clear ...they are liars....and they have lied to the people...and they have lied their way into two very profitable wars on falsehoods ...I mean they have switch to the hijackers being Saudis.....when have one of these liars stepped forward and said...We are sorry for the loss of thousands of lives for our mistake...We should not have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan based completely on bogus information....have they said to the Iraqi people...or the afghans We have made a mistake and went after the wrong perpetrators....nope they have not...also If people look into Israels past of forging passports and mossads brilliant capabilities for carrying out false flag agendas then maybe they would be more on the right track.....so yes...they have LIED.....NIST and FEMA are complacent non professional partners in these crimes committed against humanity....They should be held responsible for their participation in promoting falsehoods to the public on all accounts.

I hope that is clear for you...I have been at this since day one....I do not do this for money or any kind of kudos...I do this because i know what is right and what is wrong.

Also just a note...your not so new here....you know how i can tell....Your quoting is that of a more advanced user...You see...I never quote in that fashion....it is compartmentalization of replies..and that is done by people who are used to the features of ATS.

but welcome to ATS....but remember people are observant who have been here a while and i have been here for a good couple years...i am no old timer...but i am not new...and i can see your not quite as new as your portraying.
edit on 093131p://f42Sunday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by Monicle
 


Cheers Monicle...good to see you and thanks for the comment....i am sure we will have some great discussions....stars all the way.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


hey...i have no problem saying they have lied...you know why...if you look into the people who are behind these organizations and how the same investigators were on the Oklahoma bombing....the 1993 truck bombing....and the towers....Not once has it been fair and independent...also if you look into the people on the 911 commission you will notice the pattern of deceit.

Also since you posted that remark.....i can understand your statement for your reply to the changing accounts statement...fair dues to you on that...if someone said it to me i too would defend myself against a remark as such....For me...it is simple...i am am always have had this handle...no matter where i am or what site i am on...so easy to trace.

Also if you read my signature thread you will know i am Anti -Zionist...and for me it is quite clear how the shadow government operate....and who is running the show with their lies and deceit.....so clear ...they are liars....and they have lied to the people...and they have lied their way into two very profitable wars on falsehoods ...I mean they have switch to the hijackers being Saudis.....when have one of these liars stepped forward and said...We are sorry for the loss of thousands of lives for our mistake...We should not have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan based completely on bogus information....have they said to the Iraqi people...or the afghans We have made a mistake and went after the wrong perpetrators....nope they have not...also If people look into Israels past of forging passports and mossads brilliant capabilities for carrying out false flag agendas then maybe they would be more on the right track.....so yes...they have LIED.....NIST and FEMA are complacent non professional partners in these crimes committed against humanity....They should be held responsible for their participation in promoting falsehoods to the public on all accounts.

I hope that is clear for you...I have been at this since day one....I do not do this for money or any kind of kudos...I do this because i know what is right and what is wrong.

Also just a note...your not so new here....you know how i can tell....Your quoting is that of a more advanced user...You see...I never quote in that fashion....it is compartmentalization of replies..and that is done by people who are used to the features of ATS.

but welcome to ATS....but remember people are observant who have been here a while and i have been here for a good couple years...i am no old timer...but i am not new...and i can see your not quite as new as your portraying.
edit on 093131p://f42Sunday by plube because: (no reason given)


Actually I was about to say thanks, but you really do think I am not new don't you, could it be that other forums I use have similar multi quote systems? I figured it out after a few posts as you can see, also I switch between my phone and PC so on my mobile phone its harder to quote properly. But if you want to believe I am not new that is fine, but I know I AM NEW.

And yes I agree with the war being wrong actually, but please don't as many do, make the assumption that just because I think the towers collapsed naturally, I agree with the war.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


Cheers i would not assume that, i was clearly stating my point of view alone...and i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are new here...so welcome to Ats and i hope you enjoy the debates...also from some statements...i don't think you actually believe how the Official story has been presented....but i do hope you can show why you think things are so...rather than just stating the physics makes sense...because for me they don't make sense at all...three different STEEL structures all suffer Asymmetrical damage yet they all collapse symmetrically....south tower has axial rotation that ceases....that right there goes against the physics of a gravity driven collapse as it means resistance was removed below the structure.

So since your new here..when questions get ask to be explained...try to explain them...it helps to show your genuine in your replies...i know when i first got on here...i took a lot of abuse because of thing i stated without backing it up fully....i now do not fall into that trap....just friendly advice nothing more than that.

also the reason people say about new members is because it happens over and over where people come in with new id's...but they get found out...not only that...they get pinpointed to who exactly who they are within a very short time as writing styles don't change...and they hold true to the same viewpoints.
edit on 093131p://f58Sunday by plube because: (no reason given)
edit on 093131p://f59Sunday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by DeeKlassified
 


I have been reading and watching videos about 9/11 for as long as they have been available. Alot of time has passed, the folks that made all of this happen are either dead or moved on to the next project. Even if we find the smoking gun, what would we do about it? Have a trial? It's not going to happen, believe what you will. All i know is that when I am driving my car, I check the rearview mirror, I stay focused on what threats are ahead. Good luck!



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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So if the evidence is so overwhelming why aren't all of the engineering schools pointing that out and what does it mean for society that they are not?

Because if it is physically impossible they should have figured it out in 2002. So they allowed the 9/11 Decade to happen.

Imagine 20 top engineering schools holding a conference in New York in 2002 and announcing to the world that airliners could not possibly have done that. What would the media have done? What would have happened since then?

psik



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by plube
 





Cheers i would not assume that, i was clearly stating my point of view alone...and i will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are new here...so welcome to Ats and i hope you enjoy the debates...also from some statements...i don't think you actually believe how the Official story has been presented....but i do hope you can show why you think things are so...rather than just stating the physics makes sense...because for me they don't make sense at all...three different STEEL structures all suffer Asymmetrical damage yet they all collapse symmetrically....south tower has axial rotation that ceases....that right there goes against the physics of a gravity driven collapse as it means resistance was removed below the structure.


Simply the calcs about potential energy do make sense, I think I have asked you a few times now do you agree? So are you saying that because the angular momentum slowed there must be something removing the below structure?



also the reason people say about new members is because it happens over and over where people come in with new id's...but they get found out...not only that...they get pinpointed to who exactly who they are within a very short time as writing styles don't change...and they hold true to the same viewpoints.


I can understand that.



So since your new here..when questions get ask to be explained...try to explain them...it helps to show your genuine in your replies...i know when i first got on here...i took a lot of abuse because of thing i stated without backing it up fully....i now do not fall into that trap....just friendly advice nothing more than that.


It is just time is not on my side, although I can be on here most of the day, its just for short bursts unfortunately, I do not mean to negate questions but I may miss them if time is against me.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by xinkid
reply to post by NWOwned
 


First post on ATS. I came here for the UFOs but signed up just to post on this 911 topic.
I remember when I was watching it happening on live TV and saw the towers go down, my first gut reaction/thought was "they gave up on the towers and decided to take them down." It was too obvious that it was a controlled demolition. Does common sense matter to the skeptics at all? Are you guys like machines that operate on data only? I know common sense cannot be proof nor do I wish to prove anything with this post. I'm just curious and disappointed that deny ignorance can mean deny common sense. I'm applying it only to the way the towers came down. So please don't go off on a tangent trying to argue why common sense can mean a lot of ignorance in many other situations - I know that.

I also know some people in real life who can't accept that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition. It's not because they don't have common sense but that their life philosophy does not allow for the possibility that our government lied to us. Sure this isn't the kind of post that has any rigorous science but I've described my gut reaction/feeling while watching the towers coming down live on 9/11.


'Common sense' is a commodity that can be sold or traded, in this case, for the security and hope that the government (a group of pigs who were supposed to work to protect the Constitution) doesn't come after them.

It's not like the warning signs weren't clear. If you're not with us, you're against us, remember? It's just that many of us are afraid of the consequences of common sense. I won't hang around here and get aggravated and dragged down by the usual group of wanna be pilots and OS grovelers. This is the linchpin of the zionist world power grab, and they have widespread support because they control all media, government, and, if necessary, local police.

I have seen what they can and will try to do to one's person, one's reputation, one's future. I am sworn to deny them progress, in this realm, and the next.
edit on 29-7-2012 by davidmann because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by AvadaKedavra14
 


Actually angular momentum stops....now this would happen for two reasons....the falling body meets resistance....or the falling body meets zero resistance....change in angular momentum is due to a force acting upon it....or a force stops acting on it.

so lets look here we will notice several things....when the collapse approaches the mechanical floor...a floor which is stronger....I beams are used...and there is cross bracing according to plans.



now i will frame it off...shall i



aprox .25s later



we notice ejections and expulsion of white smoke.



material and more white smoke..

then approx .5s this.



So we see the problem here don't we....quite clearly.

Also you say about the PE....I showed you in another thread how the calculations were wrong.


where mf is the mass of one WTC floor, assumed to be 1/110 the mass of an entire WTC
tower, namely mf = (510,000,000 / 110) kg  4,636,000 kg


from bazant greening Et AL .....do you see the problem here...the top part of the tower was much lighter weight material as i explained in here....www.abovetopsecret.com...

you cannot take an average mass and apply it to the structure overall...IT is not how skyscrapers are built and a professional as they claim to be should know this thoroughly.

Anyway....be well and have a good day.....The Officials lied...as they ASSUMED the general population would just accept it because it comes from Experts.....Well they were wrong.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by psikeyhackr
 


Could not agree more. Too much time has past for all of the proof or non proof to have any teeth, we must move forward. I would love nothing more to have details of everything that doesn't make sense to me, I won't let it consume me. It was a terrible loss of life and I hope it doesn't happen again. There are many things that are going on that we may or may not ever find the truth about, or what we accept as the truth. Again, if the TRUTH is discovered, what's next?



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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I can see some people replying in this thread do not take lots of eye witness acounts seriously, just like NIST and co.

These people seem very sure what they experienced, I don't think they were mistaken. The footage speaks for itself.

I don't understand why some folk are hellbent on ignoring the obvious?

Those that still cannot accpet explosives were used to bring down the buildings, have yet to comment on the section of the video from 24:07 - 24:27. I have mentioned this a couple of times, but no members that wont accept explosions seem to want to pass comment?

24:07 - 24:27 is clear audio and visual evidence of explosives detonating, I don't understand how after seeing that section of the video anyone could still think explosives were not used?

Don't be fooled by the official reports, they were a shambles and designed to hide what really happened. Perhaps that is enough for some people, but there are many people, professionals included that do not accept the government reports.

24:07 - 24:27 anyone?



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
I couldn't even watch this whole video. It's so horribly edited, and even deliberately takes some witnesses statements out of context.


Like a Political Speech!...lol



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by DeeKlassified
 





Don't be fooled by the official reports, they were a shambles and designed to hide what really happened

Shambles?
Do you mean like the cohesive explanation put forth by the truther community?
Oh wait they don't have one now do they.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by DeeKlassified
 





Don't be fooled by the official reports, they were a shambles and designed to hide what really happened

Shambles?
Do you mean like the cohesive explanation put forth by the truther community?
Oh wait they don't have one now do they.


No they were a shambles, take for example their question and answer session, they got stumped about the freefall question by a physics teacher, perhaps they should have employed him and then it might have been more accurate.

Sam, do you have anything to say about 24:07 - 24:27?



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by psikeyhackr
So if the evidence is so overwhelming why aren't all of the engineering schools pointing that out and what does it mean for society that they are not?

Because if it is physically impossible they should have figured it out in 2002. So they allowed the 9/11 Decade to happen.

Imagine 20 top engineering schools holding a conference in New York in 2002 and announcing to the world that airliners could not possibly have done that. What would the media have done? What would have happened since then?

psik



psik, earlier I was saying to DeeKlassified that maybe his expectations were too high with the whole video witnesses proclaiming explosions thing and the hopes any common sense person would have for evidence such as that etc., and now I'm going to propose the same thing to you.

I personally know a dozen Professional Engineers, both Mechanical and Civil/Structural and we've chatted about 9/11, I won't go into their views suffice as to say they run the gamut, some with serious doubt.

But the thing is this, none of THEM (even) are marching on New York and taking Nist and the OS to task.

Here's what I think. The Twin Towers weren't their buildings etc. They didn't design them, didn't build them, didn't own them, weren't in charge of them, they were in a completely different state etc. Right?

Had they designed them they would've designed them to take a plane hit. We can only assume then that the original designers and people who created and signed off on the plans did so as well.

It not being OUR buildings we can only assume so. It's not OUR (their) responsibility. I'm sure they think (my engineer friends and all the engineers you keep citing from engineering schools) all assume it stood for 30 years it must've been OK design, if it fell, well, there are professionals and agencies that would take care of it.

They design their structures to sound principles and codes so they're not really worried that they're missing a critical piece of faulty engineering displayed in the Towers destruction that they need to know. It wasn't their design, CNN is not going to be camped on their lawn asking them to answer any tough questions. No class action lawsuit is going to be filed against them for faulty engineering and wrongful death.

There were people in New York that would (and DID) 'Handle it'. That we argue daily now whether they handled it right or legitimately is another issue. The engineering in New York designed by dead guys 40 years ago has no impact or relevance to their everyday lives.

The expectation that you have therefore, is in my opinion, in light of these facts, somewhat unrealistic.

Let me try and illustrate with another example.

A few years ago Air France flight 447 crashed into the Atlantic off Brazil, right? Now tell me, how much time in minutes did you spend contemplating it? Just the extent of the CNN or whatever news report, maybe the report mentioned from the investigation, and this post since I just mentioned it? And that's all right? So what's that tops? 30 minutes? Out of your entire life? Bet you weren't even thinking about it before I just mentioned it!

That's what I'm talking about.

Now what about all the pilots who fly the exact same plane?! You would think they'd all ground their aircraft until they find out the cause! It might be critical and they could be next! But that didn't happen. Professional pilots all flying the same plane who continue to fly the very next day not knowing what brought flight 447 down. Amazing. No it isn't. They're not calling for any investigation or questioning the French Government's results (the people who were tasked to handle it which everyone knows there is a group everywhere etc.) they keep on flying and not one protests or refuses to fly...

It's the same thing with 9/11. Engineers in Oregon (just saying, you know, 'anywhere') who never designed the towers, never signed off on the plans, never owned them or were in any way responsible for them are like the pilots flying the same plane as flight 447. They know there was a crash, saw it on CNN! They know there are Agencies that will and DID deal with it etc. They got people who want to get to Hawaii on 9/12, people's lives go on.

Really, the whole thing, the whole crash (447) or destruction (9/11) has not that much to do with them.

Somebody 'handled it', just somebody else.

This idea you have and keep repeating that every engineer in America should be and would be, all up in arms over 9/11 is just unrealistic.

I think it's not so much that they know and are like playing dumb cowards it's just simply it's not that relevant to their everyday lives. I think if you point it out to engineers and get them to run some calcs seriously you might be able to turn them on, but as it stands it's not that relevant to them, someone handled it and life goes on.


Cheers



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Sam, do you have anything to say about 24:07 - 24:27?

Since you asked.

The audio sounds like the low frequencies were amplified to enhance the effects.

To illustrate my point take the fog horn for example. They are designed to emit low frequencies because they travel farther for the given input. If the buildings were emitting that much low frequency sound it would have been heard on every video of the collapse not just this one.

That’s the problem with using Youtube as evidence for anything. You cannot guarantee that the video is accurate. From my point what I heard was steel and concrete tearing itself apart. Just it was amplified.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by samkent



Sam, do you have anything to say about 24:07 - 24:27?

Since you asked.

The audio sounds like the low frequencies were amplified to enhance the effects.

To illustrate my point take the fog horn for example. They are designed to emit low frequencies because they travel farther for the given input. If the buildings were emitting that much low frequency sound it would have been heard on every video of the collapse not just this one.

That’s the problem with using Youtube as evidence for anything. You cannot guarantee that the video is accurate. From my point what I heard was steel and concrete tearing itself apart. Just it was amplified.



I don't think you can compare that sound to a fog horn! Those sounds were real, as they were, being on youtube make no difference to the low frequencies that are already there. Youtube compression will roll off some of the top end but never adds anything to the sound. Even if someone had enhanced the sound, and they didn't those frequencies were there in the first place, you cannot boot a frequency that does not exist in the first place.

The sound is an explosive pattern; boom, boom, boom, as the building progressively collapses. Each explosion bringing the next part of the tower down in succession. This is easy to work out. You can even see explosive flashes near the end. It's clear as day, and anyone in the government with any credibility should have tested for explosives, just on 24:07 - 24:27 alone, let alone the rest of the video!

I guess people see what they want to see, and the government ignored what they didnt want people to know. Although people do know anyway, regardless of their omissions and failings.

At least this video exists and will open a few more eyes.






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