Educated opinions not welcome

Star and Flag OP. I can see from some of your past posts you've got a decent head on your shoulders.

The funny thing is, I imagine many people feel they are here for the same thing. Good conversation, discovering and sharing new thoughts and ideas, learning from one another, etc. When really they just believe they are right about everything and are looking for any opportunity to spew their own opinion. Even if it is off topic or they didn't bother reading your whole post/grossly misinterpreted your post. This happens all the time in political and racial threads. People here one person use a buzz word and they react to that buzz word instead of the points being made by the poster. I'm sure you have encountered this as well.

ATS reminds me a lot of a relative I have. We have pretty much just resigned ourselves to sit quietly and nod instead of trying to cut off or inject any sort of logic into his rants. You can hardly engage in small talk without triggering a rant. Not even the weather, which is usually the #1 small talk topic.

"Man, it's like 95 degrees out today, I only brought jeans, can I borrow a pair of shorts?"

"DAMN LIBRUHLS, WE'VE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH GLOBAL WARMING BUT THAT SOCIALIST MUSLIM NAZI ANTI AMERICAN MARXIST REVERSE RACIST COMMIE OBAMA WANTS TO DESTROY AMERICA, YOU KNOW IT WAS ACTUALLY THE DEMOCRATS WHO RESISTED CIVIL RIGHTS FOR THE BLACKS? THAT MUSLIM IS GOING TO RE DISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH, HE HATES AMERICA."

"S-so...shorts in the middle drawer, top drawer...?"

Regardless of one's personal opinion, that kind of rant is complete garbage. And it's hard for reasonable, well thought out ideas to be seen and heard over a mountain of that junk. Whether it's on TV, radio, or on the web.

Someone earlier in the thread made the point that this is an "entertainment" forum. I tend to agree that when it comes to UFOs, ghosts, ancient astronauts, and so on, it's silly to get upset. But when it comes to politics that's a whole other situation because it's not just the web where people spew their uninformed or biased opinions, it happens in all forms of media and ultimately affects all of us. So seeing people being willfully ignorant, and seeing it happen in such large numbers on a forum can be kind of aggravating/disheartening. Being upset with that is understandable.

Originally posted by Grambler
Let me start by telling you why Im here. To Learn the truth of things, and to give my opinion on what the truth is so that I can get feedback, so I can adjust my beliefs to what is correct to the best of my ability.

In my pursuit of this I often find myself a moderate on this site. Im not repub or democrat, I dislike the government but question the logic that everyone involved is evil, etc.


Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored. However, if you make a politically charged opinion with no facts behind it, you will get massive responses in favor of and against your comments.

I kmow it sounds paranoid, but I often feel as if people ignore my points on this site because they have no answer to them.

The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.

Not paranoid at all, my friend....imo, that is. Just an accurate observation, I think, because I feel the same way...and back when I was here at ATS more than anywhere else I haunt at any given time, I got the nickname "Viper Assassin" due to my terrible propensity to shut even a healthy thread down in one fell swoop with one of my replies...I don't make those kinds of replies anymore because it just began to feel more and more like a waste of time and while I continue to research and assimilate in the very same way, I have no desire, or at least not much, anyway, these days...to share my findings in the hopes of receiving the benefit of someone else's efforts similar to my own.

When I first joined here, it was different here as far as attitude and atmosphere....the posters had more of an air of maturity and the willingness to consider things and not commit or jump to conclusions...sometimes skepticism seemed a teeny bit lacking.

Then, several years later, I began to see what I have sinced termed "pathological skepticism" which is pretty much the same blind and impetuous emotional opinion on the side of DOUBT as opposed to BELIEF. In other words, I began to see that more people were immediately willing to doubt anything and everything and the more credible and sound the presented evidence, the more vehement the cries of 'debunked' were. And the general attitude felt younger and far less informed, and especially the lack of desire to LEARN and to EVOLVE in understanding was almost palpable.

Lately that isn't so bad, but I haven't posted anything meaningful, or at least what I consider meaningful and contributory to the general mystery, in quite some time.

It makes me kind of sad to tell you these things...because I've had some really significant findings and I truly and actually have physical personal proof supporting the illusion of time...or, in other words, that spacetime is not static and therefore 'time travel' isn't really even an anomaly but just something we can all easily do if we are able to make some sort of quantum leap in our perceptions of personal reality....hard to explain...but I have what I think would be firm empirical evidence of this...willing and ready and able to share it with anyone interested...for no other reason than I know it isn't mine to hoard but to share so we can all continue to grow and evolve...but the one or two times I tried to share it...I got such a null response it nearly hurt my feelings...but I know it isn't personal. I just wish people were open because I have never been fooled in a bad way by my credulity but I temper it with skepticism...neither one, I hope, being what I think of as 'pathological.'

Moderation, as we know....works for this, too.

But these days, the whole goal of most members seems to be all about getting those stars and flags and making long viral threads. That calls for incendiary bs supported by opinion and half-baked midnight fugues rather than the kind of thing that I, and you, too, evidently, are interested in.

But, good to know you are not the last dodo bird, eh?
I'm a dodo bird, too...or maybe just a dodo.

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
Someone earlier in the thread made the point that this is an "entertainment" forum. I tend to agree that when it comes to UFOs, ghosts, ancient astronauts, and so on, it's silly to get upset. But when it comes to politics that's a whole other situation because it's not just the web where people spew their uninformed or biased opinions, it happens in all forms of media and ultimately affects all of us. So seeing people being willfully ignorant, and seeing it happen in such large numbers on a forum can be kind of aggravating/disheartening. Being upset with that is understandable.

This ^^^

One of the great disservices of conspiracy community is to make nothing "true" and nothing "real".

I know a lot of people hate the anti-CT "propaganda" (or truth - depending on your perspective) the government engages in, but if I was trying to govern and couldn't get enough serious people engaged, due to massive disinformation campaigns, from political opponents, and crackpots, I'd be frustrated.

Even good honest news is seen as a lie, and tons of absurd lies are seen as obvious truths...

If you think about it too long, you might freak yourself out.

Some great points in the OP. Because government is so prevalent in every aspect of our lives, I can't help but think of how these rebuffed educated opinions relate to issues of government and left/right wing sort of stuff.

The best metaphor is to think of politics as a big sport with Team Republicans and Team Democrats. The supposed way to win the game is to help create a better society with healthy people, low crime, plenty of jobs, a prosperous economy, etc...However, whether these things actually happen or not, the players on both teams still manage to always have their contracts renewed for another season with incredible pay and secret bonuses.

Sometimes in an attempt to give an educated opinion someone steps back to look objectively at the sport and points out that it is rigged because both teams are cheating and the rules of the games are unenforceable because the referees hang out with both teams behind the scenes. The moronic masses in the stands then predictably react in a hostile way to this because showing the wizard behind the curtain in oz shatters their precious illusion which allows them to enjoy their 'game' and perceive it as a game. These 'fans' love to devote themselves to one team and convince themselves that they have moral superiority over the other team because they truly believe that their team is trying harder than the opponent to help the betterment of society.

Its normal that happens, from what I gathered until now a good majority of ATS members have some kind of troubled mind or illness so they don't care at all you give a rational approach to any subject and will go for those giving the most lunatic answer.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Grambler

 

It's possible you're taking this all too seriously. ATS is an entertainment site, nothing more; and extreme views and expressions are usually more entertaining than sober, moderate ones, so they tend to be more popular with the punters. ATS is also about as close as the internet gets to a mass-market publication, so you can't really expect the average level of education and culture here to be very high.

Lighten up a bit and you may find yourself enjoying your hours here more.

Astyanax...I read that someone made this statement, on the post above the reply I just made, at the end of the thread....I kind of assumed that it came from someone who had only been at ATS a few months or at best, a year or two...but you've been a member nearly as long as I have!

In a sense, I'd have to agree with your assessment in that this is entertainment, but only insofar as asking...is not ALL of the internet essentially meant to entertain?

Granted, what is entertainment to some is complete waste or time or bone-stiffening boredom to others...I personally have always been the type to consider a whole Saturday afternoon (when the sun is shining, mind you, not a rainy day) spent in the non-fiction section of the local library to be nothing short of literal HEAVEN...the internet just means I don't have to leave home (or get dressed, even, if I don't wanna~!) as well as having a gazillion times more possible explorations than the books down at the library can offer...the internet came along just in time because I was just about all the way through the whole section and it didn't appear they had plans of expansion.



And if you mean that kind of entertainment when you said that ATS is an entertainment forum, then okay...I see what you are saying...but if that's so...the attitude that the OP talks about is totally NOT entertaining to me and I would assume the same for any other person who likes the geeky kind of entertainment that I do.

I never have gotten the impression that the originators of this site were aiming to provide 'entertainment' primarily or as the first order of intention. Truth seekers wanting to learn was the way I have always perceived the founding individuals of ATS...so far as I know, nothing has changed at the top, has it?


That was a lot of drivel...maybe I should of just asked....what the heck are you saying, friend, when you say entertainment is the purpose of this forum?
Define entertainment, if you would be so kind.

Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by Grambler
Let me start by telling you why Im here. To Learn the truth of things, and to give my opinion on what the truth is so that I can get feedback, so I can adjust my beliefs to what is correct to the best of my ability.

In my pursuit of this I often find myself a moderate on this site. Im not repub or democrat, I dislike the government but question the logic that everyone involved is evil, etc.


Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored. However, if you make a politically charged opinion with no facts behind it, you will get massive responses in favor of and against your comments.

I kmow it sounds paranoid, but I often feel as if people ignore my points on this site because they have no answer to them.

The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.

This is MY Opinion (Shared with you of course):

I too have been here seeking TRUTH in things that have confounded me as well. I have learned much from both the liberal left and the conservative right here. Me, I'm neither and not a moderate either. I'm independent. I think for myself, reason for myself, but weight all the views about things before forming an opinion of my own.

I've been guilty of flaming here as well. Shame on me. Actually, it was in defense of a higher reasoning that I did it. Some skeptics admittingly annoy me at times. I guess as it was stated earlier in the thread, there are kids and professors here. It must be the kids that annoy me and everyone else. They aren't really old enough or have enough life experience to give a justified opinion of anything and I know that sounds ugly and mean spirited, but lets remember, that kids in general tend to think the older folks are stupid and don't know anything.

I have been a truth seeker for many years of my life. I want answers that philosophy and theoretical sciences cannot provide.

Kudos on your post. I'm with ya 100+%

reply to post by Grambler


I know exactly how you feel.
Denying ignorance in the search for truth is all I am doing.
There are way too many people on this site who claim to know things that, simply no one knows.
We should all accept the fact that on a grand scale we know near to nothing, and that is why this site exists. To question everything. To know nothing.

The moderators should set up an ignorance test for first time members.
Nothing saying 'you believe this you can't join' of course, just something to test peoples sense of wonder and intrigue if you get what I mean.
Because, simply if you know everything, nothing intrigues you and you just want to tell everyone the 'truth' then you shouldn't be here.

Thanks for this thread I actually stopped using my account because I was sick of people who can't engage in open minded debate.
Its more like most people have their views and they'd rather stick to them.

That is NOT what this sites about.
Christ it frustrates me way too much!

reply to post by Grambler


My only comment would be the fail belief shared by so many attempting to sound intelectual, that somehow they expect all humans to act like machines and use no emotion when replying. Last time I checked it is impossible for humans to not have an emotional reaction, as we are human emotional reactions are what we do best.

Maybe if everyone would stop taking themselves so serious all the time,and start admitting to the human element involved in all mans works we could move past all this and start to remember we are humans, we are emotional greedy selfimportant little weasels that will lie steal and cheat any and everyone necessary to get what we want.

There's a difference between passionately expressing your opinion and being irate.

"I believe the government is going down a dangerous road sacrificing our freedoms for the sake of a false sense of security."

Versus

"OBAMA IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS THAT SOCIALIST MUZLIM NAZI LIBURUHL HATES 'MERICA AND IS TRYING TO TURN US INTO A SOCIALIST WELFARE NANNY STATE"

Huge difference. And unfortunately we see the latter more often than the former. Be as passionate as you want when arguing your point, but argue it by expressing it in a sound manner with facts that support the reasons for why you hold your opinion. I think that's all anyone is asking for.

Originally posted by Screwed
reply to post by Grambler

 

Have you ever met someone who didn't think they were right?
I have never met someone who thought they were wrong I can tell you that.
Everyone thinks they're right.
And if THEY'RE RIGHT then guess what # head???

You're wrong!!!!

It is the way of things.
It will never change until we learn how to kill our egos once and for all.

Speaking for myself I would'n claim I am right (nor wrong). I uphold my position/point of view until someone presents me a more plausible one (for me).

So I would adjust your statement "I think I am right because of my underlying assumptions, knowledge etc."
If you change the latter it can (!) change the point of view, but it often to always depends on how you present it. Best is people experiencing it on their own. So change the environment so people can experience a different experience.

(In a higher level of perception this thread could be seen as another "I am right because I am the only (right/truthful) truthseeker and everyone else('s attempt) is wrong". How about the suggestion to put the own point of view as far behind as possible and try a - well - consensuative approach. Which should be consensus aswell. Don't know the degree of moderation, but at least in your own opened threads you could try to request to focus on some guidelines. If they suit the others or not can be discussed elsewhere (like in such a thread).)

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Grambler

 

It's possible you're taking this all too seriously. ATS is an entertainment site, nothing more; and extreme views and expressions are usually more entertaining than sober, moderate ones, so they tend to be more popular with the punters. ATS is also about as close as the internet gets to a mass-market publication, so you can't really expect the average level of education and culture here to be very high.

If this is the case then why do ATS Mods. censor perfectly legit. comments!?

The truth is stranger than fiction. Know thyself human. Its th only way

Originally posted by DCLXVI
I agree with you. I was not agreeing with someone in another thread and that person asked me to show him wrong. It took me about an hour to write a two page reply in order to get every aspect of the issue and refute the original statement i was not agreeing with.

The answer went completely ignored and i never got a reply haha.

This happens to me quite a bit. I welcome it. Think of how much you learned by that exercise!

Some day, the yellow-eyed dragon of ignorance will be regarded as one of the greatest teachers mankind has ever known.

reply to post by Grambler


I agree with you. I posted a thread in Rants, which because of one line in my OP got derailed into attacking/defending GMO foods, and while I made my stance and opinion clear with hardly any backup, 13 people starred a guy for wanting to BAN WATER (which was phrased intentionally to point out the people my rant was against). I felt I made my case well, and wasn't attacking anyone (other than who the rant was directed at). When I post counter-arguments, people stop responding. When someone else posted a tree-hugging link, it was game back on and stars and responses were flying everywhere for them.

I joined because I thought it was actually about denying ignorance, not assuming people who do not agree with you are ignorant, and denying common sense.

Originally posted by Grambler

Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored.

I think that's why my threads don't get the attention I expect them to get when I make them. I'm just too far beyond the dumbasses on this site.

Hello there new here and wanted to say Hello. As for your though, sure its true thats why we are here. Not everybody has the same idea as you do and expect more # then good. Only I an new here and don.t know you or what you have posted. If it is lame then feedback will be as such, ideas are such that anything is possible, and some want the points then the actually truth. So far I find 80% lame, 20% good ideas to bring up. So withthat point 80% will hate this post and the others will love it. There are some facts/ideas worth concidering and talking about rest is just trash, except that some trash is another mans GOLD! :" There is no such thing as winning anything, only when people are around they call it winning!" Made that up!

reply to post by Grambler


spot on

I find that this goes way beyond this site though. Even in my personal life, I constantly find myself debating with people for no apparent reason. I consider myself fairly intelligent, but by no means a genius, but when I am debating with people I RARELY find someone that I don't look at them like they are mentally challenged or just afraid to accept the truth.

The Op and I have had a few exchanges on here. It is the fact we see things differently that I admire him,
When I post on any forum I often intentionally set out to get under peoples skin. I often play devils advocate because it makes for more lively discussion.

Life is like a many faceted gem...no matter how you look at it, it is beautiful.....but if you were to take away the facets.....all you have left is a rock