Educated opinions not welcome, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 61 times

Topic started on 28-7-2012 @ 01:53 AM by Grambler

Let me start by telling you why Im here. To Learn the truth of things, and to give my opinion on what the truth is so that I can get feedback, so I can adjust my beliefs to what is correct to the best of my ability.

In my pursuit of this I often find myself a moderate on this site. Im not repub or democrat, I dislike the government but question the logic that everyone involved is evil, etc.

Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored. However, if you make a politically charged opinion with no facts behind it, you will get massive responses in favor of and against your comments.

I kmow it sounds paranoid, but I often feel as if people ignore my points on this site because they have no answer to them.

The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:05 AM by benrl

Its just the ever continuing war against intellectualism, you see it everywhere.

The more simplistic the narrative the better.

Actual rational discussion on how to actually "fix" a situation is anathema in American politics at this point, and so you get people mimicking the talking heads they see on the MSM.

It reminds me of the philosophy majors I used to know in college, they where quick with their favorite thinkers "quotes" but actually get in a debate with them and no critical thinking to go behind the thoughts.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:23 AM by jiggerj

reply to post by Grambler

I admit I'm at my wit's end. Try to take a topic step by step by using logic, and people get upset that I won't just make a leap of faith that they are correct. People don't want to know the truth. They just want to live in their fairy tale worlds and heaven forbid if someone rocks their boat.

If someone proves that I am wrong I readily and gratefully admit it because it means that I've expanded my mind that much further. From what I've seen here, the majority do NOT want this.

edit on 7/28/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:25 AM by Screwed

reply to post by Grambler

Amen brother.
I am a fellow truth seeker and have also noticed what you point out as well.
The problem is and always has been and always will be one thing and one thing ONLY!

EGO!

Once you know that then it becomes easy.

Have you ever met someone who didn't think they were right?
I have never met someone who thought they were wrong I can tell you that.
Everyone thinks they're right.
And if THEY'RE RIGHT then guess what # head???

You're wrong!!!!

It is the way of things.
It will never change until we learn how to kill our egos once and for all.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:29 AM by darknewt

im new on here so in peoples eyes im probably a troll, let me say i came to this site seeking knowledge and to maybe find answers to questions ive thought of for years, ive read many comments some that are great and some are childish playground chit chat

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:31 AM by benrl

reply to post by Screwed

We seem to all be wired to think we are right.

EGO!

It all comes down to the Confirmation bias

Confirmation Bias wikipedia

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. For example, in reading about gun control, people usually prefer sources that affirm their existing attitudes. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

Like you said, the problem becomes when we choose to ignore the fact that we all can't be right.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:33 AM by Astyanax

reply to post by Grambler

It's possible you're taking this all too seriously. ATS is an entertainment site, nothing more; and extreme views and expressions are usually more entertaining than sober, moderate ones, so they tend to be more popular with the punters. ATS is also about as close as the internet gets to a mass-market publication, so you can't really expect the average level of education and culture here to be very high.

Lighten up a bit and you may find yourself enjoying your hours here more.

edit on 28/7/12 by Astyanax because: there were half a dozen replies by the time I posted mine.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:37 AM by Kangaruex4Ewe

I am here seeking the truth as well. Most of my threads are lighthearted and I have chosen at times not to post some topics because of the experience in which you speak of. I think the more logical points a post/thread has the more it seems it is ignored because most folks either agree so they don't pipe up, or they simply have nothing to add.

The shorter political posts spread like wildfire because they are often inflammatory and spun in such a way as to make folks have a knee jerk reaction. They are received as a personal attack on one's intelligence, taste, judgement, etc. and I suppose it is harder to resist hitting the reply button when you feel like you have been personally offended.

I still enjoy the beefier threads here and truthfully sometimes I don't reply when I don't know WTH I am talking about. There are some highly intelligent folks here, and some of the stuff discussed is over my head, or it is something that I do not yet know enough about to make a comment on it.

I see your point though. Just keep on keeping on because there are folks here that do still enjoy those types of threads even if they do not always respond.

edit on 7/28/2012 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:38 AM by Wildmanimal

reply to post by Grambler

If may be so bold,

You will not find any truth here.

For the truth , Look within your own self and your personal

life experiences.

If you share that, and are willing to venture the maze that has no

final reward of cheese, just maybe you will discover what you are

really looking for...

Amongst the Encyclopedia that is ATS ,

The Treasure Resides Within

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:40 AM by theroguelion

All I care about is the truth. I've formed my opinions by looking at most all the available evidence and using my common sense. If somebody presents new facts to me, I will consider it. I have been proven wrong a few times before - I was thankful.

Unfortunately, I've found that most those that disagree with me (about things I actually have contemplated and researched A LOT) use completely faulty logic. My logic is pretty top notch, but I can also recognize when my logic is faulty compared to others, which very rarely happens. I try my best not to speak on things that I haven't thoroughly researched, which is not something I can say for most people I have argued with.

I'm also pretty good at being objective when it comes to the facts and admit that I really don't know very much for sure. I grew up in the Bible belt. Took me 15 years to realize Christianity just isn't up to par with logic and facts so I ditched it, without knowing a single non-Christian. Took me even longer to realize the official 9/11 story was bogus - without knowing a single truther.

Those are just a few examples. I agree with my fellow Southerners on quite a few things, but only things they are right about. The point is all the things I believe are due to my own objective research. I notice most people just believe what the people around them believe and they never really question, even though they argue vehemently for it. I have questioned everything. My opinions and beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else thinks.

I get really frustrated with stupid people. I feel that I have a right to be condescending to people that just parrot what others say, argue things they are completely ignorant about, or tap dance around well-made points & logic. My purpose for debate is not to convince them because it is almost impossible to convince someone of something they feel strongly against. That is a decision they have to make on their own.

There is a well known saying "When the student is ready, the teacher appears." Think about it (logic) people that are posting/arguing a different opinion on a thread aren't coming with an open mind. Therefore, no matter what you say, you can't convince them. If they were available for convincing they would be asking questions - not arguing a point.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:50 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by Screwed
reply to post by Grambler

Amen brother.
I am a fellow truth seeker and have also noticed what you point out as well.
The problem is and always has been and always will be one thing and one thing ONLY!

EGO!

Once you know that then it becomes easy.

Have you ever met someone who didn't think they were right?
I have never met someone who thought they were wrong I can tell you that.
Everyone thinks they're right.
And if THEY'RE RIGHT then guess what # head???

You're wrong!!!!

It is the way of things.
It will never change until we learn how to kill our egos once and for all.

To be honest I don't come at a topic thinking I'm right. I know who I am, and what I am. I know my level of education. I know a little bit of everything, but not everything about any one thing. So, when someone offers me a new nugget of truth, I cherish it. But I get frustrated when I can see that a conversation is going to end up being just a waste of time.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 02:52 AM by skepticconwatcher

reply to post by Grambler

That sure makes me feel better.

Cuz, you know.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 03:02 AM by OccamAssassin

reply to post by Grambler

Educated opinions not welcome

If you are seeking truth....are you not educating yourself?

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 06:35 AM by g146541

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Grambler

It's possible you're taking this all too seriously. ATS is an entertainment site, nothing more; and extreme views and expressions are usually more entertaining than sober, moderate ones, so they tend to be more popular with the punters. ATS is also about as close as the internet gets to a mass-market publication, so you can't really expect the average level of education and culture here to be very high.

Lighten up a bit and you may find yourself enjoying your hours here more.

edit on 28/7/12 by Astyanax because: there were half a dozen replies by the time I posted mine.

Agreed, we give revenue building clicks and they allow us to our free speech, as long as it is in line with their agenda.
This place is strictly entertainment.
(Edit)
Off topic, nice avatar!
One of the few places where I never pull punches and am always serious, my doggies.

edit on 28-7-2012 by g146541 because: doggies rock!!!

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 08:28 AM by Klassified

reply to post by benrl

Now notice your first post as compared to your second post. See how that works?

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 09:06 AM by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by Grambler
Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth?

The people you are dealing with here range from kids to professors, and all are put on equal footing. Surely you have found some wisdom here among with the rubble. It will be like panning for gold if you are seeking truth here, you can find it but will need to do a lot of sifting. Whether or not that is worth the effort to you is your decision to make. I hope you keep at it.

Your stats indicate you are well-received here, perhaps a good bit better than most. On average you receive 2.3 stars for every post you make, average 4 flags for every thread you start, receive an applause for every 50 posts you make. Pretty darn good! That all sounds like people are listening to you and not dismissing you as some sort of kook or brushing you off as a nobody. I tend to agree with Kangaruex that many logical and well-presented threads/posts just seem to be ignored because most people may essentially agree and/or have nothing to add to it, but people generally take notice of who generates those posts and they are appreciated.

Consider that among the types of people that visit conspiracy sites are those you have experienced unusual events and seek explanations, those who have noticed many things occur that just don't rationally add up to the official or accepted story, those who feel a bit out-of-place and not found their niche in the world, skeptics that want to restore a rational world view, and surely at least a small number that have a particular agenda to push for whatever reason. Most of these folks find little interest in participating in discussion over a sane, rational, well-presented thread or post that offers a reasoned and sensible view about how things are - it just leaves nothing to discuss. Give it a star, or not, and move along to something juicier that has something to argue about.

It may take awhile to realize that people do actually take notice of those who seem to have a grip on reality and can bring a reasoned view to a discussion. Those persons generally have good stats but nothing amazingly wild. Look for those who have an unusual amount of stars or flags and you will generally find either kick-butt great articles that display a lot of research and stone-turning together with great presentations, or those who push a lot of buttons to get knee-jerking response on hot-button issues.

If you are merely bringing sensible and rational reason to the forums you may likely feel lost in the crowd here. After you have explored this huge site for a time you are likely to discover some features of interest to you that haven't yet come into view. I expect by then you will find a number of other like-minded people who share your interests and will have projects of interest to you that may contain some of those truths you seek. I expect ATS is actually a much larger world than you realize yet. Your sought-out truth may be found in some of the "lesser" forums and features you haven't yet explored fully. There really is a lot going on below the surface here. Happy hunting.

edit on 28-7-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 10:44 AM by autowrench

reply to post by theroguelion

My logic is pretty top notch

Isn't that Ego talking, friend?
Good post in any case. I too am a Seeker of Knowledge, and look for Information everywhere, not just in one area of study. I have a set of rules to live by when it comes to Intel:
Trust no one, and assume everything is a lie until proven true. When a "Fact," comes to light, be it hard, soft, or theoretical, I look for three different avenues, or, areas of study to confirm.

I get really frustrated with stupid people. I feel that I have a right to be condescending to people that just parrot what others say, argue things they are completely ignorant about, or tap dance around well-made points & logic. My purpose for debate is not to convince them because it is almost impossible to convince someone of something they feel strongly against. That is a decision they have to make on their own.

I hear that. I have no problem with Ignorance, ignorant people can be taught, and some are willing to learn, some are even eager to learn. Stupidity, however, is a chosen life path. A Stupid person does not wish to learn, and is secure that they know everything already. You can't fix stupid.

I feel compelled to seek out information. This is hard to explain, but there it is, I cannot help myself, I have to learn new things, almost every day. From any source, I do not automatically discount a source just because someone has labelled it as evil, or dark. A good percentage of my information comes from off-world sources. This is why I am so against these fundamentals who call ETs demons, and say they are evil, and lie to everyone. This is just not so, the things I have been taught aren't lies, most was designed as my education, and this helped me to have a successful career and a working knowledge of a great many machines. Even today, my meagre income is supplemented by an education not from books, but from another source. Were is an evil source, I would not be able to use it in a positive manner.

Now many people are more than eager to inform me that my information is just wrong. This comes out frequently in the religious threads. To some if you think different from them, you are crazy/on drugs/satanic/demon inspired and there is no help for you. This is because in my areas of study are varied, and sometimes I go on a tangent. My deep education on Christianity stemmed from an interest in the Grail Legends. More than 10 years was spent in the study of everything concerning these matters, and I followed many paths that went off in other directions. The deeper I got, the more I was able to see that most of it is just made up by the Church. I have to hand it to the Church, they surely must have had help to be able to mind control and dumb down so many generations. Money, Power, and Greed are what runs the Church. But it's members cannot, or will not see this. Say anything about the Established Institutions of Thought and you get a label. Your opinions are not welcome, and have no value whatsoever.

I think what we all need to do is rise above the petty politics and religions, but everyone cannot wrap their minds around that. I think we all need to learn how to, and get ready to Ascend to a Higher Dimension. Some are not ready for that, and would rather stay here on a dying world. Some do not agree with this at all, and say this is all "New Age" talk, and not to be believed.

Society idolizes intellect. Albert Einstein, Nicoli Tesla, Aristole, Spinoza, Mozart, and Bach were all praised for their genius. Edgar Allan Poe, Thomas Paine, Leonardo da Vinci, Sir Isaac Newton, and Alexander the Great, are not idolized. The evil genius doesn't start out evil - they become that way over time. Those with more active brain cells are usually labelled as "doesn't play well with other kids." If you are different enough in the way you think to be classed as a genius, you won't fit in and you're basically going to get a whole lot of crap, and/or negativity if you will, thrown at you from an early age. Parents, and other authority figures might be dismayed, ashamed, disgusted and resentful of their "peculiar offspring," the kid who is smarter than they are, and knows it.

Knowledge is power. The less rationally, logically, intelligent, and critical thinking a person happens to be, the more subjective, fear-based and superstitious the person is, which makes sense, and they operate from a more primitive level related to response to power. The less we know, the more we fear. Fear drives a Power, but not the one within us. The Inner Power is driven by Knowledge and Wisdom.
Sorry I went so long. Cheers.

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 10:54 AM by MDDoxs

reply to post by Grambler

It depends on the topic at hand you are trying to discuss/argue.

Their are certain terms that de-rail discussions into a linear line of thinking, that discourages differing opinions, by labelling them as anti-this or anti-that or un-patriotic etc etc.

We all know these terms and some of the most common are:

-9/11
-Aliens
-UFO
-Islam
-government
-terrorist

These are but a few of the terms that prevent rational and logical discussion as they have a certain stigma attached that force the same conversation over and over again.

It is a shame that it is difficult to have a discussion on the aforementioned topics where its hard to argue a differing logical/rational point.

edit on 28-7-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 11:01 AM by TXRabbit

I've been here a number of years. Not a huge poster but a huge reader.

A few things I've learned about ATS:

- Facts require more proof than bull#
- Common-sense and Occam's Razor are not synchronous
- Physical evidence is not required to constitute proof
- When someone who routinely points out the obvious, posts a reply - that person is attacked rather than their arguments
- When all else fails when looking for reason, it's perfectly acceptable to blame it on HAARP, NWO, Reptilians or Alex Jones

Still one of the most entertaining sites out there however. Please, don't stop

edit on 28-7-2012 by TXRabbit because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 28-7-2012 @ 11:10 AM by DCLXVI

Originally posted by Grambler
Let me start by telling you why Im here. To Learn the truth of things, and to give my opinion on what the truth is so that I can get feedback, so I can adjust my beliefs to what is correct to the best of my ability.

In my pursuit of this I often find myself a moderate on this site. Im not repub or democrat, I dislike the government but question the logic that everyone involved is evil, etc.

Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored. However, if you make a politically charged opinion with no facts behind it, you will get massive responses in favor of and against your comments.

I kmow it sounds paranoid, but I often feel as if people ignore my points on this site because they have no answer to them.

The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.