Lucid Dreamers Help Scientists Locate the Seat of Meta-Consciousness in the Brain

Mods: Probably not the most appropriate section of the Forum for this, so move at will.

www.sciencedaily.com...

ScienceDaily (July 27, 2012) — Studies of lucid dreamers show which centers of the brain become active when we become aware of ourselves in dreams.

Say what! This makes complete sense... duh!

Which areas of the brain help us to perceive our world in a self-reflective manner is difficult to measure. During wakefulness, we are always conscious of ourselves. In sleep, however, we are not. But there are people, known as lucid dreamers, who can become aware of dreaming during sleep. Studies employing magnetic resonance tomography (MRT) have now been able to demonstrate that a specific cortical network consisting of the right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, the frontopolar regions and the precuneus is activated when this lucid consciousness is attained. All of these regions are associated with self-reflective functions. This research into lucid dreaming gives the authors of the latest study insight into the neural basis of human consciousness.

and some more...

“The general basic activity of the brain is similar in a normal dream and in a lucid dream,” says Michael Czisch, head of a research group at the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry. “In a lucid state, however, the activity in certain areas of the cerebral cortex increases markedly within seconds. The involved areas of the cerebral cortex are the right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, to which commonly the function of self-assessment is attributed, and the frontopolar regions, which are responsible for evaluating our own thoughts and feelings. The precuneus is also especially active, a part of the brain that has long been linked with self-perception.” The findings confirm earlier studies and have made the neural networks of a conscious mental state visible for the first time.

I thought this would be a good article for some to guide some research into lucid dreaming, for I know there are many ATS'ers who are into this sort of thing.

I know a fair amount about how the brain works, and all that fun... if there's anybody that has anything good to add, I'd love to see it. I'll be back with some more information about this finding in a little while, and maybe make more sense of it.

I will care about science and the brain when science acknowledges psi and begins to disseminate parapsychological findings, instead of ignoring them. Til then, science is just a bastion of scientism to me.

reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

This specific issue was part of an excellent episode of Through The Wormhole(Putlocker is a good streamer). This season has been cutting edge with plenty of actual science, revealing so much wonder it leaves one in awe.
It seems the area that is active during dreams is the same area and has the same levels of activity as a waking state.
I can't recall enough details,and I apologize for not adding much, but the episode was amazing.

Peace

ETA:

This finding will be used for the good of mankind, I'm sure.

Well... here's some interesting information:

en.wikipedia.org...

Damage to the DL-PFC can result in the dysexecutive syndrome,[4] which leads to problems with affect, social judgement, executive memory, abstract thinking and intentionality.[5]

...

The DL-PFC may also be involved in the act of deception and lying, which is thought to inhibit normal propensity to truth telling. Research suggests that by using TMS on the DL-PFC can hamper a person's ability to lie, or indeed to tell the truth

Well, that would seem to parallel peoples beliefs that dreams reflect emotions, through abstract thinking... and the possibility of them displaying some sort of deeper truths.

en.wikipedia.org...

Precuneus:

Consciousness

It has been suggested that together with the posterior cingulate, that the precuneus is "pivotal for conscious information processing"

Visuospatial

The precuneus has been suggested to be involved in directing attention in space both when an individual makes movements and when imaging or preparing them.[1][13] It is involved in motor imagery and shifting attention between motor targets.[1] It is also involved in motor coordination that requires shifting attention to different spatial locations

So now... the ability of conscious information processing, and ability to imagine or 'prepare' recognition of space, and allowing for 'motor imagery'.

I'd say we have the recipes for a dream. lol

Just thought I'd share:

Originally posted by BlueMule
I will care about science and the brain when science acknowledges psi and begins to disseminate parapsychological findings, instead of ignoring them. Til then, science is just a bastion of scientism to me.

edit on 27-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

I'm not going to dig up a bunch of information to prove the following, but if you claim that you will 'care'... maybe you should try googling some research that IS being done... in regards to Parapsychological "paranormal phenomena's".

The answers are usually not ones that people want to accept though... as highlighted in the following thread that I once brought to ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Synesthesia May Explain Healers Claims of Seeing People's 'Aura

Man, I will tell ya what... Synesthesia can be a rabbit hole in its own. I've studied a little about it, watched some epic videos... I don't even know where to begin about this one. If you are interested in metaphysics or psychology of the brain and such... check it out.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by FractalChaos13242017


I do this offen! When dreaming I realise where I am and my circumstances in the dream and act accordingly. Most of the time I know I can fly and either fly to tops of buildings or with the wind. There have been times when I have flown to great heights and seen landmasses in the ocean to the curbiture of the Earth itself!

There is more information involved!

Originally posted by BlueMule
I will care about science and the brain when science acknowledges psi and begins to disseminate parapsychological findings, instead of ignoring them. Til then, science is just a bastion of scientism to me.

So true. Psi is so easy to learn and inside a month you can move a ping pong ball or an empty soda can on the floor where you want it to go. Air in a house doesn't do this, if it did -- my desk would be so disorganized all the time.

If the research wasn't in Munich I may have considered volunteering but first I'd have to show them what I can do with ping pong balls and tell them to add that to their research. As a girl, it can get pretty impressive

Originally posted by BlueMule
I will care about science and the brain when science acknowledges psi and begins to disseminate parapsychological findings, instead of ignoring them. Til then, science is just a bastion of scientism to me.

edit on 27-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

indeed,
Scientists will NOT be able to Locate the Seat of Meta-Consciousness in the Brain

only those areas of the brain Meta-Consciousness interacts/interfaces, or connects with.

they will, of course, continue to point at shadows projected on their screens
proclaiming them the real thing.



Immanentize the Eschaton

PATENTABLE: Nighttime headgear that reactivates these areas of the brain (at a desired time or during a chosen sleep cycle period) during sleep via electrical triggering (prompting), which continues to prompt these parts of the brain when activity levels fall below a calculated activity threshold indicative of lucid dreaming, giving the wearer lucid dreaming sessions of programmed lengths.

If the patent system wasn't pay to play/a total PITA, I'd have filed this myself.

Originally posted by Archangelelijah
reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

 

I do this offen! When dreaming I realise where I am and my circumstances in the dream and act accordingly. Most of the time I know I can fly and either fly to tops of buildings or with the wind. There have been times when I have flown to great heights and seen landmasses in the ocean to the curbiture of the Earth itself!

There is more information involved!

There's all sorts of spatial recognition and motor imagery all up in those dreams lol.

Just some random information:

I had a dream last night that I pulled out an RC-Car and some how found myself driving it from inside of it. I peeled out of the drive way and road the dirt road like never before lol. That's when I woke up, man that was one crazy dream It's a fun one to interpret.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by BlueMule
I will care about science and the brain when science acknowledges psi and begins to disseminate parapsychological findings, instead of ignoring them. Til then, science is just a bastion of scientism to me.

edit on 27-7-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

indeed,
Scientists will NOT be able to Locate the Seat of Meta-Consciousness in the Brain

only those areas of the brain Meta-Consciousness interacts/interfaces, or connects with.

they will, of course, continue to point at shadows projected on their screens
proclaiming them the real thing.

Immanentize the Eschaton

what?

Exactly how is the brain not an 'interface'...?

The 'seat' is wherever the brain is more active... I'm not really understanding your argument, sorry.

I'm confused lol, would you mind denying some ignorance over here

Originally posted by Archangelelijah
reply to post by FractalChaos13242017

 

I do this offen! When dreaming I realise where I am and my circumstances in the dream and act accordingly. Most of the time I know I can fly and either fly to tops of buildings or with the wind. There have been times when I have flown to great heights and seen landmasses in the ocean to the curbiture of the Earth itself!

Man, do I miss flying, I use to fly all over the place when dreaming but no more.

Yup, lucid dreamer here. Once again, it's the hardware firing. Wow, these guys are mapping the brain quick.

Still nothing that can tell us apart darnit.

Last time i was "aware" i uh.. tried something and it seems like i was forced to awake. I "woke up" quick (fastest i've awoke ever while lucid dreaming) into sleep paralysis, but there was no fear. The only fear i felt was when i created it, nothing like how it usually is. Did i pass a test or something? So... i went back to sleep.

Depending on the dream i can keep it going. Sometimes when i become self aware, everything starts to wash out. It's kinda iffy i can't do it on command. But then again, i don't think there is a "Lucid Dreaming for Dummies"...

Damn i said it! *sighs*

Well, they say that the last 45 minutes of your waking moments will be likely what you're going to dream about. So if you were thinking about sex, then you'll have nice dreams 4/10 times I can dream lucidly, and the majority of the other times is mainly lucid but unaware of reality if that makes sense. Then there are dreams where it's like a movie which is what most people experience from my understanding.

What I do if I want to lucid dream is that I spend my last moments thinking about lucid dreaming and a theme to it. Sometimes if I'm lucky, I'll see a tunnel thing and then there's a strange scene of odd colors for a while and then I enter into a dream. I've read that the first x minutes are this or that, but it never seems to be like that for me because sometimes I'll immediately lucid dream and wake up because of a loud sound (in the real world) or something. I don't know what the science they are doing but they are far away from being able to understand the process of dreams if we all differ so radically.