9/11 Pentagon Flight Recorder Fraud Revealed

reply to post by intrptr


I think it is important at this point that I direct readers to this particular post from Dennis, which deals directly with the FDR data, and stays away, mostly, from the aero part.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Highlights of this post include:

We have a plane that, when the flight data recorder 'ceased' to record data, was several hundred feet above the impact point on the building, for whatever reason, and ironically, someone on the other side of this argument has asserted that this 'discrepancy' is based solely on blind encoder lag and no other reason. I can tell you from many tests I have conducted on altitude encoder devices, running them from below sea level all the way up to altitude and back, to check for hysteresis in the readings and correct for it, I have never seen an encoder not instantaneously reflect something very very close to reality.

Did I ever split the response down to the milli-second range and look at it that way? To tell the truth, no, I did not, but having seen it with my own eyeballs, I can tell you that the barometric altimeter or pressure altimeter on my test rig, and the digital readout from the encoded altimeter data, did not lead or lag each other by an eyeball discernable amount in time.

The flight data recorder, at the moment of impact, should have more or less reflected the true aircraft altitude when it hit the wall of the Pentagon, and then gone completely 'wrong' in the 200 or 300 or 400 milliseconds of time it took for the recorder to fully lose physical and electrical power integrity due to the impact. Many prior crashes which have been faithfully recorded by FDR's in the past, show an uncanny trend of surviving and doing data recording beyond the first major impact with the ground in crash events. Though there are a incidents of failures outside this realm of final airplane reality, far more often than not, the moment of impact plus some number of milliseconds, up to nearly a quarter or even half a second in time beyond that, have been recorded in flight data recorders.

The aneroid element or piezo element that the encoder used to provide the altitude signal to the recorder, would have been far closer to the penetration point altitude than was presented by the N.T.S.B. info.

What I am asserting here is that for this airplane to be flying at 460 knots and at a 4,000+ feet per minute descent all the way to the building, it could not possibly have, for the last several hundred feet, managed to
magically 'levelled off' and then shear those light poles off in the fashion and heights at which they were sheared off at. One of those portions of the N.T.S.B. recreation is flat 'wrong' in that you cannot have both the 460 knot speed and the four thousand feet per minute descent, and still manage to take out those light poles at the synthetic ramp height that they were sheared off at.

So what gives then? You tell me. The mere fact that the FDR data doesn't match the recreation isn't the most damning evidence, but what is so very damning, is that today, six years later, nobody knows for sure how to explain the huge discrepancy between a unit that should have continued stowing data in the CPM module for almost 200 milliseconds or more after impact, and how that same unit had quit recording data several hundred feet above the impact point, and why exactly that data shows an airplane at 460 knots, 4000+ feet per minute descent rate, somehow managing to magically go horizontally stable for hundreds of yards before hitting the building it hit, well beyond the ability of a human pilot to carry out without leaving engines in the dirt or on the sides of freeway ramps or overpasses before smashing into a wall of the Pentagon.

He also has a big problem with the file size, and discrepancies in reports of the locations where the FDR was found at the Pentagon, and more. See the post for full details.

As the Q Group appears to be out in full force, terrified someone of importance is actually going to read this information, and as they laugh at me for falling into their little virus trap, the last laugh will not be theirs. Of that much I am sure.

Originally posted by The X
Actually the evidence of the flight carrier being 00000 and the flight number being 00000 shows amply enough that there was a conspiracy of people "Breathing Together" to get a bench testing FDR into the public domain containing evidence that attempts to portray the flight of the aircraft to the pentagon.

Quite the contrary. The FDR records multiple flights, not just the one that terminated at the Pentagon. So the suggestion is that "they" went through all the trouble to "fake" 10 or 11 real world and traceable flights and then overlooked the obvious detail of omitting the flight carrier and flight number information just so Dennis could come along at some future date and scream foul. No, what Stutt says seems to make more sense. Those parameters are not necessarily recorded.

Are we surprised by this? We should be. The essence of the 9-11 event is political in both scope and intent. It's clear that the Bush administration had little legitimacy in the 9 months or so from inauguration to the 9-11 incidents. This is suggestive of a false-flag attack for a variety of reasons, even when we leave aside the fact that Neo-Cons are on record as desiring a "second Pearl Harbor" in order to legitimize their agenda.

If we accept the invalidity of the official line regarding 9-11, we should be prepared to do so across the board. Bush Jr. stole the Presidency not once but twice. Powerful, monied interests are regularly misleading and openly lying to the American public on a daily basis. Osama bin Laden was never killed, because he never existed to begin with. As things progress and the national discourse becomes increasingly muddled, riddled with paranoia and generally incomprehensible, the lies will increase in intensity and profundity. Soon, there will be no truth at all.

Every site like this is penetrated by disinformation agents. I may be one and not even know it. So may we all.

We should be surprised by any piece of evidence that comes to light regarding any of these incidents indicative of a conspiracy, cover up or other fifth-column interaction. It is hard to believe that the powerful are at all capable of making slip ups when so much of modern sanity depends upon denial of the obvious. No one with a good job and a position of relative power is stupid enough to risk their job and comfort for the glory of revealing to the world that all is not as it seems and the audience is - after all - just a bunch of sheep led to the slaughter.

No less, revealing the truth to the masses may well be met by a yawn. Isn't it already? Don't people signal every day by their inaction and indifference that they desire to be ruled and enslaved? Why should anyone be willing to be shamed or to die to free such a people?

The argument can easily be made that people remain largely and collectively in the dark because of powerful and subtle mechanisms of manipulation. And it can just as easily be argued that people want to be lied to, because they are perfectly aware of the truth and too broken to harness to want to revolt. They fear the chaos of revolt more than the order of slavery. Many methods and systems are at work to complete this procession of domination. Some of these may be mystical or "magical" at their base, but they are in reality psychological and highly scientific. We must be suspect of any evidence that validates our particular point of view. It's entirely possible that our ideas and our convictions will ultimately prove the best weapons to be used against us.

Originally posted by wrkn4livn

Originally posted by wrkn4livn
Simple question deserves a simple answer. Where's my friends husband who was on that plane?

edit on 29-7-2012 by wrkn4livn because: (no reason given)

Hummm... No answer. Wait I know! He was killed and ground into dust upon impact. Poor guy. At least he didn't feel a thing.

If the Govt. is willing to kill roughly 3000 of its own citizens, Im sure they would have no problem killing all the passangers that were on those planes... If a plane didnt crash in Shanksville or the Pentagon, Im sure those flights were landed in secure areas and all the passengers were killed to hide the truth...

reply to post by TrueAmerican

As the Q Group appears to be out in full force, terrified someone of importance is actually going to read this information, and as they laugh at me for falling into their little virus trap, the last laugh will not be theirs. Of that much I am sure.

Whats a Q Group?

Sorry, I didn't read all the thread still so I am not up on this one. I was merely addressing the two issues of the "rudderless turn" and the "magic cockpit door".

Having said that, I will be the first to agree with anyone who questions the data "released" by the Pentagram (whoops, Pentagon) and sees errors therein. That there should be holes or misnomers, even outright disinformation, doesn't surprise me at all. The only footage I have ever seen of the pentagon strike is that one grainy time-lapse that doesn't show anything. So yah, I'm pissed about that because I want to study the detail therein like anyone else. All the pics in hell don't add up to what one can see in a few bits of video.

I can only surmise that the government doesn't want the truth about that revealed. Either because they are lying (go figure) or hiding stuff. Its both, right?

And they surely don't want you or me to see that they have covered up the very reasons for attacking all those countries in the Middle East. Because then everyone would be on the same page about it and probably marching on Washington tomorrow.

Isn't this the whole idea? To ferret out some secret information about 911 to prove our government is a bunch of lying, criminal, warmongering, greedy bastards?

Now you tell me...

Originally posted by GovernmentLoyalist
As a layperson, I find Warren Stutt credible in that he was able to actually decode the flight data recorder frames whereas others were not. So I would give more weight to his assertions than the one cited in your OP.

As a layperson, why do you find Warren Stutt credible when not even the National Transportation Safety Board has acknowledged such a decode done by Warren Stutt?

Also, why exactly would you find Warren Stutt credible when he admits he has no expertise in aviation nor FDR analysis??

Bottom line, why should any reader here listen to you or Warren Stutt when both of you claim to have no expertise whatsoever in an field related to aviation, and the NTSB themselves has not acknowledged any of your claims?

Why exactly would anyone listen to anything you have to say over these people with certified credentials in their field?

Originally posted by salamanda


For the record...I've still yet to meet another pilot with time on heavy jets who believes the government version of what went into the Pentagon. Period. From 3,500hr guys all the way up to your +20Khrs pilots who when they talk about flying airliners, you need to STFU, pull your head in, except you know # and your opinion is based on absolutely nothing of any note or value. If you don't like what they're saying... tough #. Who the hell do all you people think you are anyway??!!

Well said.

And I suppose this is one of the major reasons why neither Frank Legge nor Warren Stutt have been able to get one aviation professional (let alone the National Transportation Safety Board), to endorse their so called papers over the years.

But hey, at least they have "GovernmentLoyalist" (an admitted layman), who finds them credible. Ha!

What's next, credibility based on amount of Facebook Friends?

Interesting. Well, I suppose the experts need to battle this one out. In a debate requiring advanced aero knowledge, going up against the likes of the federal government with Boeing et al at their side, and little pesky Q Groups with a seek and destroy mission, it is important we all know our place. If the truth movement would reunite and pick their best henchmen for each category of 9/11 arguments, where expertise is allocated wisely, it's possible there still could be a chance.

As it stands? I don't have a whole lot of hope anymore. May I suggest that each division has succumbed to the very thing we bitch at the US government for. And that's why I am urging reunity. Forgiveness, reconciliation, and peace. Beer. Smiles. Better times. Friends. Not having to be so damn RIGHT all the time. They split us worse than where the "Good Lord" did. Right down the middle. And we bit it hook, line, and sinker.

I am willing to call myself a fool if you are. Tag, you're it. Yeah, YOU, Mr. 9/11 Researcher. Reach out for reconciliation to who it was you got mad at. One last time. If not, we're toast. Face it today or tomorrow, but face it, you must. The first priority of the 9/11 movement must be that, if you really stop and think about it. Divide and conquer must be made moot, or we are by definition, divided and conquered.

Read that Jim. Read that Rob. Read that Dennis, Craig, Aldo, Richard, Steven, Judy, and every one of you. Bonez? Get your buns back in here. Read that all of you. And think about it. That is my plea, to you. Find a way, whatever it takes.

Note to readers:
In the OP, the following is stated, in external tags, properly, per ATS rules:

"Flight data recorder expert Dennis Cimino, commercial pilot with more than 2000 hours, reveals government's claims about a flight data recorder found at the Pentagon from Flight 77 are totally fraudulent, with zeros instead of the plane's identification number and flight number!"

That is the description as it sits on the Youtube video itself. Those are not my words.

It should be noted though that whoever wrote that description actually meant "Fleet ID" instead of "flight number."

But crucify me for it if you must. No, better yet, GO LOOK AT THE YOUTUBE VIDEO DESCRIPTION.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Read that Jim. Read that Rob. Read that Dennis, Craig, Aldo, Richard, Steven, Judy, and every one of you. Bonez? Get your buns back in here.

Read that all of you. And think about it. That is my plea, to you. Find a way, whatever it takes.

Do you feel that the above people should all unite with people like John Farmer (aka 911files, aka spcengineer, aka BCR)?

John Farmer claims to be a "Truther" too....

By the way, why is Dennis claiming to be a part of P4T and claiming such absurd rudder theories under the P4T banner when Dennis resigned from P4T when P4T didn't accept No Plane Theories?

reply to post by IceRoadTrucker


No, it is a general plea, that WHERE POSSIBLE, TRY. That is it. Maybe it's not possible. OK! I accept that. Can we move on please?

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
. Can we move on please?

Agreed... moving on....

So, vipertech claimed he downloads FDR data from the crash protected memory to give to engineers, claims there is an alphanumeric header in which he "wouldnt argue that there isn't a section in the header that lists the serial number of the airplane and the serial number of the recorder."

vipertech has been conveniently absent since you pointed this out to him.

Those who actually review the claims of Dennis Cimino will understand vipertech is saying exactly the same thing. That the aircraft number, serial numbers, etc, should be in the alphanumeric headers of the raw FDR data. However, they are missing from the data claimed to be from American 77. This is the crux of the argument made by Dennis Cimino, and vipertech cross-checks such claims whether he likes it or not.

vipertech, since you "wouldn't argue that there isn't such data in the header", then can you please show us where 'such data' IS in the header of the raw FDR data claimed to be from American 77, N644AA? Can you please point to us where the alphanumeric header is in said raw data which should contain serial numbers etc... as you claimed and I sourced above?

reply to post by IceRoadTrucker


No, I haven't been absent. Just haven't really felt the need to post. I do wonder however, when the OP will admit that Mr Cimino does say that the actual flight number should be present in the data. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

Now, to the rest of your post. Yes, I did say that the header of the FDR files normally has the aircraft serial number and the recorder number. I could have also said that about one forth of the time, again on our jets, the serial numbers are no longer there....in their place...a bunch of zeroes.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by IceRoadTrucker

 

No, I haven't been absent. Just haven't really felt the need to post. I do wonder however, when the OP will admit that Mr Cimino does say that the actual flight number should be present in the data.

Dennis Cimino never said that. The uploader of the Youtube video made that claim. You would know this if you actually watched the video or read anything that Dennis Cimino has claimed.

Now, to the rest of your post. Yes, I did say that the header of the FDR files normally has the aircraft serial number and the recorder number. I could have also said that about one forth of the time, again on our jets, the serial numbers are no longer there....in their place...a bunch of zeroes.

So now you WOULD argue that 'such data' may not be there?

You have contradicted yourself in less than 3 pages.

Originally posted by IceRoadTrucker
Dennis Cimino never said that. The uploader of the Youtube video made that claim. You would know this if you actually watched the video or read anything that Dennis Cimino has claimed.

That's what I thought, and this has had me confused. Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't know at this point if a single ATS poster has actually watched both those videos yet, or either of them, for that matter. Comments here on the content seem to be lacking, when there is tons of stuff in there to talk about.

vipertech claims -

"Each of the reports I have seen, list the serial numbers. " - Source

Now he claims - " I could have also said that about one forth of the time..."

Well yes vipertech, you "could" have said that, but you didn't.

Why the change in tone?

reply to post by IceRoadTrucker


Yeah, but wait a minute, what does Viper's knowledge of F-16's have to do with 757-223's anyways? Isn't this a bit of apples to oranges? Or am I missing something?

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by IceRoadTrucker

 

Yeah, but wait a minute, what does Viper's knowledge of F-16's have to do with 757-223's anyways? Isn't this a bit of apples to oranges? Or am I missing something?

We will get there.... first vipertech has some splainin' to do. Namely that "Every report he has seen has serial numbers", but now he contradicts himself by saying "I could have said only one fourth...".

reply to post by IceRoadTrucker


Well at this point, what more splainin' IS there to do? The data's missing, can't identify the data conclusively as coming from 77, and that right there, is A BIG GAPING HOLE in the official story. They won't give it up through FOIA, so what is there left to do?

reply to post by TrueAmerican
----------->

If you are really interested in investigating all aspects about FDR's or anything else related to aviation you are welcome to our community www.pprune.org...

Since your posting style is not of the agressive kind i think that you have a fairly good chance to get decent answers and an interesting discussion.

The Tech Log would be the right subforum to make a thread about FDR's.